According to Shigeru Miyamoto (the god of videogames or some such thing), unlike a game such as Wii Fit, all you have to do with a new Mario or Zelda game is throw in a new theme.
The Nintendo guru uttered to Edge: "But I can tell you some differences between something like Wii Fit and when we’re working on titles like Mario or Zelda. When we’re on those more traditional Nintendo titles, our developers can already tell what the end result will feel like from the start, and so we will simply give them a new theme to tackle within the game, and the development just gets going."
Does not that sound a little... well, lazy?
In fairness to the man, however, he does later go on to suggest that some thought goes into making one of those core games feel new. "Even when we’re working on those so-called ‘serious’ titles, when we’re hard at work on a Zelda or Super Mario Bros., amongst ourselves in the same development team, the way we discuss the game is to ask: 'What’s new? What’s fresh about this title?'" Miyamoto uttered.
Has the innovation gone from Nintendo's core titles? Let us know in the Forum. Maybe let us know what you thought of New Super Mario Bros. Wii, too.
The Nintendo guru uttered to Edge: "But I can tell you some differences between something like Wii Fit and when we’re working on titles like Mario or Zelda. When we’re on those more traditional Nintendo titles, our developers can already tell what the end result will feel like from the start, and so we will simply give them a new theme to tackle within the game, and the development just gets going."
Does not that sound a little... well, lazy?
In fairness to the man, however, he does later go on to suggest that some thought goes into making one of those core games feel new. "Even when we’re working on those so-called ‘serious’ titles, when we’re hard at work on a Zelda or Super Mario Bros., amongst ourselves in the same development team, the way we discuss the game is to ask: 'What’s new? What’s fresh about this title?'" Miyamoto uttered.
Has the innovation gone from Nintendo's core titles? Let us know in the Forum. Maybe let us know what you thought of New Super Mario Bros. Wii, too.
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Comments
Joji 15 Dec 2009 15:42
1/13
This is what worries me the most. While Wii Fit and such are cool enough in their own right, Nintendo's lack of core titles of late IMO, is going to leave them like a blunt knife. The games industry changes like the seasons, and with a very japanese myopic mindset, what worked before might not work as well as last time, and positive changes in the industry should be taken into account when designing such games, even at Nintendo.
A lack of new core IP in recent years, makes me think the magic has died (or staff left) at Nintendo. Mario etc are cool, but more is sorely needed and Nintendo fail to see this. Kind of makes them look poor, when even EA can push out fresh new imaginative IP, annually, but Nintendo have given us next to nothing, in the same regard. I don't see this changing any time soon, such a shame.
A lack of new core IP in recent years, makes me think the magic has died (or staff left) at Nintendo. Mario etc are cool, but more is sorely needed and Nintendo fail to see this. Kind of makes them look poor, when even EA can push out fresh new imaginative IP, annually, but Nintendo have given us next to nothing, in the same regard. I don't see this changing any time soon, such a shame.
Sam 15 Dec 2009 15:55
2/13
"Does not that sound a little... well, lazy?"
I'd be careful about jumping aboard this bandwagon if I were you.
And why do some people fail to recognise the innovation inside NSMBW? Simultaneous four-player multi action inside a Mario platformer, anyone?
Really, the hostility directed at Nintendo from some quarters of the online community (both commentators and users) is getting rather pathetic and desperate.
I'd be careful about jumping aboard this bandwagon if I were you.
And why do some people fail to recognise the innovation inside NSMBW? Simultaneous four-player multi action inside a Mario platformer, anyone?
Really, the hostility directed at Nintendo from some quarters of the online community (both commentators and users) is getting rather pathetic and desperate.
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Sam 15 Dec 2009 16:01
3/13
@Joji
Well, it is a shame that Nintendo never made Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, or New Super Mario Bros Wii I suppose.
Oh wait a minute, THEY DID.
But I guess they don't have anything in the pipeline such as Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other M or Zelda Wii.
Hang on a sec. DID SOMEONE SAY THEY DO?
And don't float that EA/Ubisoft bullcrap, their games have been lame and they deserve all the lack of success they get.
Well, it is a shame that Nintendo never made Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, or New Super Mario Bros Wii I suppose.
Oh wait a minute, THEY DID.
But I guess they don't have anything in the pipeline such as Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other M or Zelda Wii.
Hang on a sec. DID SOMEONE SAY THEY DO?
And don't float that EA/Ubisoft bullcrap, their games have been lame and they deserve all the lack of success they get.
Joji 15 Dec 2009 16:48
4/13
Excuse me! Hostility? I don't know where you got that from, whether aimed at the news post or myself. Personally, I always say, no company is beyond criticism or praise, and that includes Nintendo. Are you saying, Sam, that Nintendo can do no wrong and or beyond both praise and criticism? If you truly believe that, you are a jaded fool,
Sorry dear Sam, but you just proved my point with your list. All the games you mention are of existing series, we've all seen before plenty times, be they the next coming of gameplay Christ or not. Where the rest?
EA in contrast, used to make mostly sports franchise updates. I was one of those gamers, who wanted more from them and change. EA adapted, listened and we got the joys of Dead Space, Mirrors Edge etc, with more cool stuff to come. At the end of the day, they like Nintendo are still making money, hand over fist. I have no problem paying for stuff, when I see them earning their dues. Perhaps Mario, Zelda aren't core enough anymore. These do receive innovation, but the Nintendo games that aren't mention here are what bother me. (I'm pumped for Dead Space 2 and Dante's Inferno, by the way)
Lack of EA/Ubisoft success? I wouldn't know about that, and I'm not talking about Ubisoft. As far as businesses go, they are far from going under, and again, their product has improved a lot, compared to what we used to get from them, assimilated devs and IPs excluded, if needed (up to you). Economic market conditions and increase in game size may also play their part, for all parties, understandable stuff.
Perhaps you should go to Wikipedia, look up both Nintendo and EA games. You'll see that, going back home console generations, Nintendo used to make a lot more varied product than they are now, but EA are the opposite.
IMO, the last cool, fresh IP Nintendo made was Star Fox back in 92/93', and nothing has ever come close to it, apart from Pilot wings from 90'. Agree or not, that's fine. Nintendo could be doing, innovating, more than they are, though. Just saying.
Sorry dear Sam, but you just proved my point with your list. All the games you mention are of existing series, we've all seen before plenty times, be they the next coming of gameplay Christ or not. Where the rest?
EA in contrast, used to make mostly sports franchise updates. I was one of those gamers, who wanted more from them and change. EA adapted, listened and we got the joys of Dead Space, Mirrors Edge etc, with more cool stuff to come. At the end of the day, they like Nintendo are still making money, hand over fist. I have no problem paying for stuff, when I see them earning their dues. Perhaps Mario, Zelda aren't core enough anymore. These do receive innovation, but the Nintendo games that aren't mention here are what bother me. (I'm pumped for Dead Space 2 and Dante's Inferno, by the way)
Lack of EA/Ubisoft success? I wouldn't know about that, and I'm not talking about Ubisoft. As far as businesses go, they are far from going under, and again, their product has improved a lot, compared to what we used to get from them, assimilated devs and IPs excluded, if needed (up to you). Economic market conditions and increase in game size may also play their part, for all parties, understandable stuff.
Perhaps you should go to Wikipedia, look up both Nintendo and EA games. You'll see that, going back home console generations, Nintendo used to make a lot more varied product than they are now, but EA are the opposite.
IMO, the last cool, fresh IP Nintendo made was Star Fox back in 92/93', and nothing has ever come close to it, apart from Pilot wings from 90'. Agree or not, that's fine. Nintendo could be doing, innovating, more than they are, though. Just saying.
Joji 15 Dec 2009 17:14
5/13
Adding onto that lot, innovating such a game like NSMB, would have been an online play option. A real shame they missed the innovation boat there. like other things with Nintendo and online in the same sentence.
Psalms 15 Dec 2009 20:56
6/13
@Joji
Online? You're confusing innovation with jumping on the bandwagon. Why do all games need online? I'd never play NSMBW online with my friends, but we play it together, in front of a projector all the time. If it were online, I'd find it frustrating and tedious, even if it had voice chat and was lag free. Using technology, just because you can isn't innovation it's a gimmick. Giving 4-player Mario, and amazing Super skills videos is innovation. It's not the best example, or the most innovative game, but tit's certainly fresh and fun.
Personally, I find it ironic to have a community that rejected The WindWaker and ignored the breath of fresh air in the Wii for another CPU upgrade call out Nintendo for not innovating. Nintendo are constantly taking risks to change up their franchises, just look at Metroid: Other M, despite the huge critical acclaim of Retro's Prime games. The real story here is that Nintendo feel that the 'hardcore' don't want innovation anymore, and they're having to turn to the expanded audience to sell brand new concepts. It's an interesting twist of the attitude of the traditional 'hardcore' gamer.
Online? You're confusing innovation with jumping on the bandwagon. Why do all games need online? I'd never play NSMBW online with my friends, but we play it together, in front of a projector all the time. If it were online, I'd find it frustrating and tedious, even if it had voice chat and was lag free. Using technology, just because you can isn't innovation it's a gimmick. Giving 4-player Mario, and amazing Super skills videos is innovation. It's not the best example, or the most innovative game, but tit's certainly fresh and fun.
Personally, I find it ironic to have a community that rejected The WindWaker and ignored the breath of fresh air in the Wii for another CPU upgrade call out Nintendo for not innovating. Nintendo are constantly taking risks to change up their franchises, just look at Metroid: Other M, despite the huge critical acclaim of Retro's Prime games. The real story here is that Nintendo feel that the 'hardcore' don't want innovation anymore, and they're having to turn to the expanded audience to sell brand new concepts. It's an interesting twist of the attitude of the traditional 'hardcore' gamer.
DrkStr 16 Dec 2009 08:25
7/13
Sam wrote:
And why do some people fail to recognise the innovation inside NSMBW? Simultaneous four-player multi action inside a Mario platformer, anyone?
LitleBigPlanet called, they want their USP back!
Dreadknux 16 Dec 2009 10:08
8/13
Joji wrote:
Perhaps you should go to Wikipedia, look up both Nintendo and EA games. You'll see that, going back home console generations, Nintendo used to make a lot more varied product than they are now, but EA are the opposite.
IMO, the last cool, fresh IP Nintendo made was Star Fox back in 92/93', and nothing has ever come close to it, apart from Pilot wings from 90'. Agree or not, that's fine. Nintendo could be doing, innovating, more than they are, though. Just saying.
IMO, the last cool, fresh IP Nintendo made was Star Fox back in 92/93', and nothing has ever come close to it, apart from Pilot wings from 90'. Agree or not, that's fine. Nintendo could be doing, innovating, more than they are, though. Just saying.
I wonder who's fault that truly is. Not being a dick or anything, really am just innocently pondering.
Nintendo created a lot of innovative, original product back in the SNES day - I'd consider that to be their greatest era for it actually. Since then, Nintendo hasn't really tried (opting to evolve its existing, popular franchises) and its hardcore fanbase hasn't really given any original product it does pump out a chance.
It's almost as if Nintendo helped nurture this fanbase culture that is stuck in a Samus/Mario/Link/Smash Bros loop, and won't accept anything else. How well did Pikmin do?
On the other hand, I don't think this situation is entirely Nintendo's doing, if whenever they do take an original IP risk its fanbase baulks.
In a way, it's no wonder Nintendo is finding a way out with product like Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort.
realvictory 16 Dec 2009 10:42
9/13
I think that people are not seeing the innovation, because the title contains existing IP. Mario 64 was innovative. Mario Galaxy was innovative, New Super Mario Bros. was innovative. Even if you take existing concepts, if you combine them in a new way, or even just add new ideas on top, that's still innovation, in my opinion.
Nintendo are not going to apply too much innovation to existing IPs that people are already happy with. Neither are EA. But, for example, FIFA 08; FIFA 09; FIFA 10; are different from each other in various ways.
But I definitely agree - it's a cycle - people buy the new thing, so they repeat it - then it depends how long it takes before people actually get bored. As a content maker, however, perhaps it is the onus of Nintendo to spot this early enough, in order to create a new IP at the right point, regardless of the consumers' behaviour?
Nintendo are not going to apply too much innovation to existing IPs that people are already happy with. Neither are EA. But, for example, FIFA 08; FIFA 09; FIFA 10; are different from each other in various ways.
But I definitely agree - it's a cycle - people buy the new thing, so they repeat it - then it depends how long it takes before people actually get bored. As a content maker, however, perhaps it is the onus of Nintendo to spot this early enough, in order to create a new IP at the right point, regardless of the consumers' behaviour?
Raffy209 20 Dec 2009 02:42
10/13
Really, the hostility directed at Nintendo from some quarters of the online community (both commentators and users) is getting rather pathetic and desperate.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Why is it that when numerous Halo, Call of Duty, Final Fantasy, etc. titles are released, everyone's okay with it, but when Nintendo makes a sequel it's suddenly not innovative?
Really, it's a sequel. Of course its gameplay is going to be similar. I'm going to have just as much fun with this game as I did with the first, if not more. Nintendo is the most innovative of the current competing console companies - whether you like them or not, you know that much is true. Look at Nintendo's core titles and I think you'll see that this "Nintendo's losing innovation" talk is really quite a lot of rubbish.
And about NSMBWii: I love the game. Two-player mode is probably the best, but the game is a blast with any number of people. It definitely tops Mario 3 as my new favorite 2D Mario, and it's a nice break from the growing realism and 3D in games.
Raffy209 20 Dec 2009 02:42
11/13
Really, the hostility directed at Nintendo from some quarters of the online community (both commentators and users) is getting rather pathetic and desperate.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Why is it that when numerous Halo, Call of Duty, Final Fantasy, etc. titles are released, everyone's okay with it, but when Nintendo makes a sequel it's suddenly not innovative?
Really, it's a sequel. Of course its gameplay is going to be similar. I'm going to have just as much fun with this game as I did with the first, if not more. Nintendo is the most innovative of the current competing console companies - whether you like them or not, you know that much is true. Look at Nintendo's core titles and I think you'll see that this "Nintendo's losing innovation" talk is really quite a lot of rubbish.
And about NSMBWii: I love the game. Two-player mode is probably the best, but the game is a blast with any number of people. It definitely tops Mario 3 as my new favorite 2D Mario, and it's a nice break from the growing realism and 3D in games.
Mr Data 21 Dec 2009 04:00
12/13
@Joji
You said it. Nintendo f----g sucks as they belive in the *tried and true* fasion and now most Nintendbots want only the latest kick/buzz instead of actual gameplay that will make you wonder what will happen next.
You said it. Nintendo f----g sucks as they belive in the *tried and true* fasion and now most Nintendbots want only the latest kick/buzz instead of actual gameplay that will make you wonder what will happen next.
Mr Data 21 Dec 2009 04:06
13/13
What I want to know is if we will ever see Mario return to the damned Mushroom Kingdom?
I think the last MK game was Paper Mario and we haven't seen one cince and I'd personally like to see a living/breathing 3D Mushroom Kingdom. :(
SM64 does NOT count.
They might as well create a new character and new franchise. I think they are tired of Mario and are too scared to do a new franchise because all the modern Nintendoromes will cry 'foul' at them and act as if a meteorite just crashed down and struck Nintendo HQ's in Japan.
:o :o
I think the last MK game was Paper Mario and we haven't seen one cince and I'd personally like to see a living/breathing 3D Mushroom Kingdom. :(
SM64 does NOT count.
They might as well create a new character and new franchise. I think they are tired of Mario and are too scared to do a new franchise because all the modern Nintendoromes will cry 'foul' at them and act as if a meteorite just crashed down and struck Nintendo HQ's in Japan.
:o :o