Xbox 360 Warranty Provider: Failure Rate Over 16 Percent
Red Ring of Death not entirely to blame
The 'Red Ring of Death' (RRoD) demon that haunts Microsoft has risen its ugly head again, with a new report claiming that hardware failure rates for the Xbox 360 are over 16% - well above the consumer electronics norm.
The report comes from SquareTrade, an American warranty provider†. The company puts the failure rate at 16.4%, to be precise. That's compared to around 3% for both the PS3 and the Wii.
The figure is based on a sample that was reportedly over 1,000. 60% of those failures were blamed on the fault behind the red ring and so would have been covered by Microsoft's extended warranty. Breaking that down, that's 9.84% of 360s suffering from the RRoD. What's perhaps more troubling is that even if you ignore the red ring failures, the machine is blighted with a failure rate of 6.56% - around double that of SquareTrade's figures for rival consoles.
SquareTrade CEO Steve Abernethy suggested that we may see an even higher percentage in the future. "It is reasonable to believe these failure rates will increase over time, since the Xbox 360 failure issues tend to increase with prolonged use where overheating appears the main culprit", he said. While SguareTrade does not break down its figures into different variations of the 360, Abernethy said he "would estimate most if not all were the original motherboard."
SquareTrade's figures are based on a statistically significant sample, though there are suggestions that the figures misrepresent the real situation because warranties may be taken out by "heavy use" gamers. While this is possible, it doesn't change the fact that these figures show 360 is suffering twice the failures of rival consoles (and that's excluding RRoD), which it's fair to say are covered by warranties taken out by the same types of user.
Other estimates have put the failure rate at anywhere between the industry standard of 3% ( Microsoft) and 33% (a former EB Games employee).
Either way, hardware repairs are costing Microsoft a whopping estimated $1.05 - $1.15 billion (£533 - £584 million) and have prompted the company to extend its warranty to three years.
SPOnG has contacted Microsoft for comment on the issue and was told, "The majority of Xbox 360 owners have had a great experience with their consoles. We do not disclose internal hardware repair data and we do not comment on speculation."
†Source: 1UP
The report comes from SquareTrade, an American warranty provider†. The company puts the failure rate at 16.4%, to be precise. That's compared to around 3% for both the PS3 and the Wii.
The figure is based on a sample that was reportedly over 1,000. 60% of those failures were blamed on the fault behind the red ring and so would have been covered by Microsoft's extended warranty. Breaking that down, that's 9.84% of 360s suffering from the RRoD. What's perhaps more troubling is that even if you ignore the red ring failures, the machine is blighted with a failure rate of 6.56% - around double that of SquareTrade's figures for rival consoles.
SquareTrade CEO Steve Abernethy suggested that we may see an even higher percentage in the future. "It is reasonable to believe these failure rates will increase over time, since the Xbox 360 failure issues tend to increase with prolonged use where overheating appears the main culprit", he said. While SguareTrade does not break down its figures into different variations of the 360, Abernethy said he "would estimate most if not all were the original motherboard."
SquareTrade's figures are based on a statistically significant sample, though there are suggestions that the figures misrepresent the real situation because warranties may be taken out by "heavy use" gamers. While this is possible, it doesn't change the fact that these figures show 360 is suffering twice the failures of rival consoles (and that's excluding RRoD), which it's fair to say are covered by warranties taken out by the same types of user.
Other estimates have put the failure rate at anywhere between the industry standard of 3% ( Microsoft) and 33% (a former EB Games employee).
Either way, hardware repairs are costing Microsoft a whopping estimated $1.05 - $1.15 billion (£533 - £584 million) and have prompted the company to extend its warranty to three years.
SPOnG has contacted Microsoft for comment on the issue and was told, "The majority of Xbox 360 owners have had a great experience with their consoles. We do not disclose internal hardware repair data and we do not comment on speculation."
†Source: 1UP
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Comments
SuperSaiyan4 14 Feb 2008 12:17
1/11
We all know Microsoft are c**ts, yep there I said it, they will NEVER agree with anything they will always find some way of blaming something else or someone else.
I am lucky that I only ever had the red ring once on my launch console ever since no problems at all not even any disc scratching. I now have the new Falcon GPU 360 so again I dont expect anyone having 3 red lights although thats not stopping any other issues from perhaps cropping up.
I have seen the insides of the PS3 and the motherboard is extremely impressive, the 360 motherboard looks like your average PC based architecture whereas the PS3 motherboard is something else completely.
Even with all the heat the PS3 produces and coupled with an internal powersupply the PS3 hardware is damn impressive but is let down by its games and controller which is in my opinion.
I am lucky that I only ever had the red ring once on my launch console ever since no problems at all not even any disc scratching. I now have the new Falcon GPU 360 so again I dont expect anyone having 3 red lights although thats not stopping any other issues from perhaps cropping up.
I have seen the insides of the PS3 and the motherboard is extremely impressive, the 360 motherboard looks like your average PC based architecture whereas the PS3 motherboard is something else completely.
Even with all the heat the PS3 produces and coupled with an internal powersupply the PS3 hardware is damn impressive but is let down by its games and controller which is in my opinion.
HyperTails 14 Feb 2008 12:19
2/11
This is hardly suprising. Nintendo always build their consoles well and the PS3 is well built too, but the 360 may as well be held together with tape and glue.
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SuperSaiyan4 14 Feb 2008 12:29
3/11
Nintendo and Sony are both Japanese and ironically both have impressed with what they can put inside the box.
Yet Microsoft being the usual big American made an impressive box with impressive bits threw it all in then thought 'dang nabbit where to put this power supply?'
Its like the Corvette Z06 impressive and lovely car (if you like them) yet uses 'leaf springs' the same ones found in a pram...
Yet Microsoft being the usual big American made an impressive box with impressive bits threw it all in then thought 'dang nabbit where to put this power supply?'
Its like the Corvette Z06 impressive and lovely car (if you like them) yet uses 'leaf springs' the same ones found in a pram...
Daz 14 Feb 2008 13:38
4/11
I'm glad I don't own a 360 if it's still that high, I hope they get it way down before Ninja Gaiden 2 comes out
Absinthe-Review.net 14 Feb 2008 17:14
5/11
Next time you're in a Halo 2 BTB lobby just ask if anyone is playing Halo 2 because their 360 fried...
martin 14 Feb 2008 21:25
6/11
Hmmm... $1 billion / $300 (cost to "replace") = 3.333333 million machines... world sales of 17 million => failure rate (planned by Microsoft) of about 20%... this number goes up if cost to replace/refurbish is less.
So 16% sounds in the ballpark.
So 16% sounds in the ballpark.
PreciousRoi 15 Feb 2008 01:01
7/11
Wha?
Surely you jest...The PS2 was rubbish as far as its design went, the Xbox's design was clearly superior, from a reliability/ownership standpoint. The original Xbox used close enough to off-the-shelf components, many of which are easily replaceable, for the skilled, adventurous, and out-of warranty. You couldn't pay me to take the case off a PS2, I've seen whats in there, mechanical tetris might make a compact console, but its not pretty to look at naked. The cooling on the original Xbox was superior as well...there was actually space in there for air to move around and everything.
As for Nintendo, when you're not looking to push the technical envelope and are actually TRYING to make your console look like it was designed by Fisher-Price its easy to make it small and tough.
Now this generation...yeah, they made a few mistakes in the design, the specifics of which are almost immaterial, they used something called (by those who poke about inside 360s) the "X-clamp" and apparently that, combined with the suboptimal cooling they implemented is causing the vast majority of the failures extant. But me, I LIKE the fact that it has a separate power supply. I know from long experience that power supplys are one of the highest failure points when dealing with electronic equipment, and I really like the idea of keeping all that heat away from the rest of the console.
Doesn't change the fact that almost all the exclusives that I find compelling are on 360, I have no need for BluRay, and I don't trust Sony not to invent the perfect console, then start unsupporting and deleting features from it to make it smaller and cheaper the next day. AFAIC, Sony "lost" a chance to dominate...I mean really dominate, the console space when they decided not to push System Link after the first generation PS games. Think about what would have happened had the PS2 been poised to support a mature online capability, after years of System Link, and possibly online with the PS. Would the Xbox have been nearly as compelling? Would MS have even went there if they hadn't seen an opening?
Anyway, this farce of a "news" item...reports just in from Captain Obvious, a dead horse is being beaten. Discuss.
Surely you jest...The PS2 was rubbish as far as its design went, the Xbox's design was clearly superior, from a reliability/ownership standpoint. The original Xbox used close enough to off-the-shelf components, many of which are easily replaceable, for the skilled, adventurous, and out-of warranty. You couldn't pay me to take the case off a PS2, I've seen whats in there, mechanical tetris might make a compact console, but its not pretty to look at naked. The cooling on the original Xbox was superior as well...there was actually space in there for air to move around and everything.
As for Nintendo, when you're not looking to push the technical envelope and are actually TRYING to make your console look like it was designed by Fisher-Price its easy to make it small and tough.
Now this generation...yeah, they made a few mistakes in the design, the specifics of which are almost immaterial, they used something called (by those who poke about inside 360s) the "X-clamp" and apparently that, combined with the suboptimal cooling they implemented is causing the vast majority of the failures extant. But me, I LIKE the fact that it has a separate power supply. I know from long experience that power supplys are one of the highest failure points when dealing with electronic equipment, and I really like the idea of keeping all that heat away from the rest of the console.
Doesn't change the fact that almost all the exclusives that I find compelling are on 360, I have no need for BluRay, and I don't trust Sony not to invent the perfect console, then start unsupporting and deleting features from it to make it smaller and cheaper the next day. AFAIC, Sony "lost" a chance to dominate...I mean really dominate, the console space when they decided not to push System Link after the first generation PS games. Think about what would have happened had the PS2 been poised to support a mature online capability, after years of System Link, and possibly online with the PS. Would the Xbox have been nearly as compelling? Would MS have even went there if they hadn't seen an opening?
Anyway, this farce of a "news" item...reports just in from Captain Obvious, a dead horse is being beaten. Discuss.
HyperTails 15 Feb 2008 20:04
8/11
I don't remember ever mentioning the PS2. Although I do agree that it was manufactured poorly. I went through two PS2 consoles which just died on me for no apparant reason (my first was bought a year after launch, so its not like they didn't have time to iron out the manufacturing problems). Although the Xbox was probably better built, it still wasn't as good as the GameCube, which never died on me at all. The original Xbox had problems like disk scratching and stuff. So basically, only Ninty got it right Last Gen.
Though I wouldn't say the Wii looks like a Fisher Price toy. Thought it looks quite nice, actually.
As for the power supply, that's something that I don't understand. I would've preferred Sony to make the PS3's power supply external like the slimline PS2's was. As you said, it keeps heat away from the console. But Microsoft made it external and still produced a console that souns like a jet engine, and has its hardware components crammed in like sardines so that the air can't circulate properly causing it to overheat like a volcano. Whereas Sony put the power supply inside the console, made it quiet, even with a fan blowing air out the top (if its vertical) as well as the back, and it still didn't overheat. But that's because Sony were paying more attention to the design than Microsoft.
I do agree that Sony should make its mind up about SKU's though. Should've just left the 60Gb and 20Gb out so people could decide. Although, it probably should have been 40Gb instead of 20Gb in the first place. That way if people don't care about backwards compatibility and Memory Card slots, they can buy the cheaper version. If they do, buy the expensive version.
Though I wouldn't say the Wii looks like a Fisher Price toy. Thought it looks quite nice, actually.
As for the power supply, that's something that I don't understand. I would've preferred Sony to make the PS3's power supply external like the slimline PS2's was. As you said, it keeps heat away from the console. But Microsoft made it external and still produced a console that souns like a jet engine, and has its hardware components crammed in like sardines so that the air can't circulate properly causing it to overheat like a volcano. Whereas Sony put the power supply inside the console, made it quiet, even with a fan blowing air out the top (if its vertical) as well as the back, and it still didn't overheat. But that's because Sony were paying more attention to the design than Microsoft.
I do agree that Sony should make its mind up about SKU's though. Should've just left the 60Gb and 20Gb out so people could decide. Although, it probably should have been 40Gb instead of 20Gb in the first place. That way if people don't care about backwards compatibility and Memory Card slots, they can buy the cheaper version. If they do, buy the expensive version.
PreciousRoi 16 Feb 2008 06:09
9/11
Some clarifications.
I brought up the PS2 because its the latest example of Sony's design that I am familliar with, I have never seen a PS3 nekkid, so I dunno about its internal layout.
You are correct, the Wii is the first Ninty console that doesn't look like Fisher-Price had a hand in the design.
The 360 doesn't have as much free air space inside as the original model, but its still got space for air to move around, if its properly motivated to do so. The components are not "all crammed together in there like sardines" as you said, the problem was the method they used to retain one of the chips, coupled with a less robust cooling solution than may have been called for. In other words, if they'd redesign the retention mechanism, added a bit more heat sink, and mebbe jacked the fans up (which they won't so because then everyone would bitch even more about the noise), or mebbe spent more for more powerful and quieter fans, the design is serviceable. With the new CPUs and other silicon upgrades this is even less of an issue now. It is also structurally very robust, from what I can tell...it looks tough, I bet the 360 would win this gens "Webb of Destruction" (only lost the last one becasue the front panel with the control daughterboard fell of, she coulda reconnected it)
Anyway, there are certainly valid criticisms to be made, but its not the completely mangled POS design that some would make it out to be...a minor upgrade to one component and a redesign of another and I think as many as 70% of the RRoDs wouldn never have happened. This was unlikely to show up in failure testing as its a gradual incremental failure of portions of many connections, kinda like how metal fatigue works...some of the connections gradually degrade until the gestalt overpowers it and it croaks.
Incidentally theres a unique fix out there for RRoD affected boxes...apparently if you change the retention mechanism over to bolts or something, then force the chip to overheat it remelts and repairs the damaged solder connections and removes the original stresses that caused them. I know someone who actually used this method with success, not that I'd reccomend it as a course of action or take any responsibility for the results if someone out there followed it. The information is out there...
I brought up the PS2 because its the latest example of Sony's design that I am familliar with, I have never seen a PS3 nekkid, so I dunno about its internal layout.
You are correct, the Wii is the first Ninty console that doesn't look like Fisher-Price had a hand in the design.
The 360 doesn't have as much free air space inside as the original model, but its still got space for air to move around, if its properly motivated to do so. The components are not "all crammed together in there like sardines" as you said, the problem was the method they used to retain one of the chips, coupled with a less robust cooling solution than may have been called for. In other words, if they'd redesign the retention mechanism, added a bit more heat sink, and mebbe jacked the fans up (which they won't so because then everyone would bitch even more about the noise), or mebbe spent more for more powerful and quieter fans, the design is serviceable. With the new CPUs and other silicon upgrades this is even less of an issue now. It is also structurally very robust, from what I can tell...it looks tough, I bet the 360 would win this gens "Webb of Destruction" (only lost the last one becasue the front panel with the control daughterboard fell of, she coulda reconnected it)
Anyway, there are certainly valid criticisms to be made, but its not the completely mangled POS design that some would make it out to be...a minor upgrade to one component and a redesign of another and I think as many as 70% of the RRoDs wouldn never have happened. This was unlikely to show up in failure testing as its a gradual incremental failure of portions of many connections, kinda like how metal fatigue works...some of the connections gradually degrade until the gestalt overpowers it and it croaks.
Incidentally theres a unique fix out there for RRoD affected boxes...apparently if you change the retention mechanism over to bolts or something, then force the chip to overheat it remelts and repairs the damaged solder connections and removes the original stresses that caused them. I know someone who actually used this method with success, not that I'd reccomend it as a course of action or take any responsibility for the results if someone out there followed it. The information is out there...
JM 18 Aug 2009 15:14
10/11
@SuperSaiyan4
You don't know what you are talking about do you. All the machines are made in China and if you are dumb enough to think the Corvette and a "pram" have the same springs you shouldn't be talking about cars either.
You don't know what you are talking about do you. All the machines are made in China and if you are dumb enough to think the Corvette and a "pram" have the same springs you shouldn't be talking about cars either.
JM 18 Aug 2009 15:16
11/11
@SuperSaiyan4
Umm, you have no idea what you are talking about. All the systems are made in China or other low cost places.
If you actually think the Corvette and a "pram" have the same spring you shouldn't be commenting on cars either. You clearly do not bother to understand the subjects you try to talk about.
Umm, you have no idea what you are talking about. All the systems are made in China or other low cost places.
If you actually think the Corvette and a "pram" have the same spring you shouldn't be commenting on cars either. You clearly do not bother to understand the subjects you try to talk about.