Manhunt 2 Appeal: BBFC Using Game As Line In Sand
Manhunt 2 Appeal - BBFC finally states its case
Rockstar took its appeal over the BBFC’s decision to refuse an 18-rating to Manhunt 2 to the Video Appeals Committee yesterday. Support for the game came from (soon-to-be-departing) CEO of games developer lobbying group TIGA, Fred Hasson, and psychologist Guy Cumberbatch.
Hasson admitted that, after playing through four levels, he was surprised at the tameness of the overall Manhunt 2 game experience. He told the committee, "I expected it to be a lot worse... I can't believe that this has been singled out as something that is worth banning".
Asked if he still stood by his previous accusations that the ban was more related to adverse publicity about Manhunt and Manhunt 2 in tabloids such as The Daily Mail, Hasson replied:
"I can only come to the conclusion that is the case…Having seen the content of the game, I can't see any other reason why they've done that."
Chartered psychologist Cumberbatch - who actually published a report into violence in video games that was commissioned by the Video Standards Council in 2001 - stepped up. He noted that, "By and large, the plot and narrative is relatively unimportant for most video gamers. Their emotional involvement in the games is relatively weak."
Cumberbatch had conducted a survey (which sounds more to SPOnG like a low-level experiment) covered 86 adults with experience of at least two 18-rated films and two 18-rated games. The 'survey' saw each of the subjects playing Manhunt 2 for 15 minutes. They were also shown footage - put together by games publisher, Take-Two - that was said to represent other levels of the game.
The research found that 68 per cent of the respondents thought that there were other games equally as violent, and 80 per cent thought that there were equally as violent films on the shelf.
Cumberbatch himself added, "In my own limited experience of playing Manhunt 2, it's fairly sanitised as a work compared with what you might expect in a film".
Representing the BBFC, Andrew Caldecott responded to arguments claiming that Manhunt 2 is being unfairly treated by the ratings board, when compared to hard-hitting ‘horror porn’ films such as Saw and Hostel. He stated, "Film is a different medium; it is simply is a different experience. There are ways in which it is perhaps more involving, because you are dealing with absolute reality, with real people, in film.
"On the other hand, many people watch horror films to some extent from the point of view of the victim, or the point of view of what's going to happen - not with this very distinctive point of view of being the person who's wielding the weapon, and is rewarded for killing in the bloodiest way possible."
He added, "A videogame is inherently less likely to be strictly supervised, and that is supported by research.
"In a Utopian society, you would have effective measures where the over-18s could play what was suitable for them without being cluttered by the fact minors will see them. But you can't make classification decisions without regard to the social prevalence of games."
Aside from this research - SPOnG is requesting a copy - Caldecott also went to the heart of the BBFC's video game strategy. It would appear that the organisation is worried about the future and wishes to draw a line in the sand: Technology Creep would appear to be the big deal. Here's how Caldecott puts it:
"Games and technology develop incrementally... If you take the comparable argument to its extreme, you get a gradual creeping towards ever more graphic violence, but you never draw a line at any particular point.
"If you're not careful you get into a peculiar game of Grandmother's Footsteps, where everybody's shuffling forward but Grandma's never allowed to turn round and say, 'Stop'... Is there never a point at which you can say, 'This is unacceptable'?
"If there is a point, the question then becomes much more difficult: where do you draw it?"
So, as we've thought all along, this ruling and consequent appeal are less to do with a single game - and more to do with a longer-term strategy.
The Video Appeals Committee has not given Rockstar any date as yet when they can expect to hear the results on the Manhunt 2 ban appeal. Fingers crossed. And, as ever, watch this space for news as we get it.
Of course, if we are to believe Play.com current Manhunt 2 listing online, the appeal is academic because the game is due to go on sale on February 1st, 2008.
Hasson admitted that, after playing through four levels, he was surprised at the tameness of the overall Manhunt 2 game experience. He told the committee, "I expected it to be a lot worse... I can't believe that this has been singled out as something that is worth banning".
Asked if he still stood by his previous accusations that the ban was more related to adverse publicity about Manhunt and Manhunt 2 in tabloids such as The Daily Mail, Hasson replied:
"I can only come to the conclusion that is the case…Having seen the content of the game, I can't see any other reason why they've done that."
Chartered psychologist Cumberbatch - who actually published a report into violence in video games that was commissioned by the Video Standards Council in 2001 - stepped up. He noted that, "By and large, the plot and narrative is relatively unimportant for most video gamers. Their emotional involvement in the games is relatively weak."
Cumberbatch had conducted a survey (which sounds more to SPOnG like a low-level experiment) covered 86 adults with experience of at least two 18-rated films and two 18-rated games. The 'survey' saw each of the subjects playing Manhunt 2 for 15 minutes. They were also shown footage - put together by games publisher, Take-Two - that was said to represent other levels of the game.
The research found that 68 per cent of the respondents thought that there were other games equally as violent, and 80 per cent thought that there were equally as violent films on the shelf.
Cumberbatch himself added, "In my own limited experience of playing Manhunt 2, it's fairly sanitised as a work compared with what you might expect in a film".
Representing the BBFC, Andrew Caldecott responded to arguments claiming that Manhunt 2 is being unfairly treated by the ratings board, when compared to hard-hitting ‘horror porn’ films such as Saw and Hostel. He stated, "Film is a different medium; it is simply is a different experience. There are ways in which it is perhaps more involving, because you are dealing with absolute reality, with real people, in film.
"On the other hand, many people watch horror films to some extent from the point of view of the victim, or the point of view of what's going to happen - not with this very distinctive point of view of being the person who's wielding the weapon, and is rewarded for killing in the bloodiest way possible."
He added, "A videogame is inherently less likely to be strictly supervised, and that is supported by research.
"In a Utopian society, you would have effective measures where the over-18s could play what was suitable for them without being cluttered by the fact minors will see them. But you can't make classification decisions without regard to the social prevalence of games."
Aside from this research - SPOnG is requesting a copy - Caldecott also went to the heart of the BBFC's video game strategy. It would appear that the organisation is worried about the future and wishes to draw a line in the sand: Technology Creep would appear to be the big deal. Here's how Caldecott puts it:
"Games and technology develop incrementally... If you take the comparable argument to its extreme, you get a gradual creeping towards ever more graphic violence, but you never draw a line at any particular point.
"If you're not careful you get into a peculiar game of Grandmother's Footsteps, where everybody's shuffling forward but Grandma's never allowed to turn round and say, 'Stop'... Is there never a point at which you can say, 'This is unacceptable'?
"If there is a point, the question then becomes much more difficult: where do you draw it?"
So, as we've thought all along, this ruling and consequent appeal are less to do with a single game - and more to do with a longer-term strategy.
The Video Appeals Committee has not given Rockstar any date as yet when they can expect to hear the results on the Manhunt 2 ban appeal. Fingers crossed. And, as ever, watch this space for news as we get it.
Of course, if we are to believe Play.com current Manhunt 2 listing online, the appeal is academic because the game is due to go on sale on February 1st, 2008.
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Comments
Bentley 27 Nov 2007 12:49
1/2
What a JOKE the BBFC are. They are worried about allowing 18 rated games in case kids see them, eh? EH? Well, congratulations to them because due to their Orwellian policies, the game is out in the wild, available to download on the Internet where there are no measures or rating systems.
If I was a parent, I'd be MUCH more concerned that my kids could see 'realistic' violence from the likes of Hostel and Saw than some PS2 graphics of a man being 'a bit' violent. Consider the "head on a stick" scene from Wolf Creek. I don't think it would be possible to create a scene that unsettling and disturbing with PS2 graphics, and if I had to force a kid to watch that scene I'd rather them see an unrealistic PS2 portrayal of it. (Please note I am not in the habit of forcing kids to watch grisly torture scenes).
And let's look at this aspect... if an under-18 gets hold of a Hostel DVD, they can stick it in any DVD player or most computers, and off it goes. Difficult for parents to keep track of or stop happening even if they really wanted to. But with a PS2 game, they have to play it in a PS2 and will probably have to play it for a while, and get to grips with the controls etc before seeing anything anywhere near as bad as there is in those horror/torture flicks. If anything, they should be focusing on educating parents in how to prevent their children from getting hold of unsuitable material; unfortunately they are probably aware that this country is so overrun by massively breeding oafs, chavs and thugs that spurt out kids without a care or thought that educating them is simply too big a deal. So instead, everyone must suffer because the BBFC simply cannot do their jobs.
Also, for all the talk of computer games being a valid art/entertainment media, now the BBFC slap that notion back a few years by showing complete incompetence and short-sightedness by needlessly picking on a game that they simply do not understand.
Jesus, I could go on ranting all day about this. I am sick to death of hearing what those dumb f**kbags at the BBFC get up to. It must be lovely to be paid to sit on your fat arse all day, watch movies and be overly judgemental.
B******s to the minors, they are already screwed up beyond saving by their parents and the s**t society we have made. It's nothing to do with Manhunt. While the kids run around the streets burning cars and shooting each other, at least let the adults have a little entertaining distraction while we are locked indoors away from them in fear. Give us some bloody Manhunt 2 you selfish BBFC bastards. I promise I won't go round stabbing people in the testicles with ballpens. So long as it gets released.
If I was a parent, I'd be MUCH more concerned that my kids could see 'realistic' violence from the likes of Hostel and Saw than some PS2 graphics of a man being 'a bit' violent. Consider the "head on a stick" scene from Wolf Creek. I don't think it would be possible to create a scene that unsettling and disturbing with PS2 graphics, and if I had to force a kid to watch that scene I'd rather them see an unrealistic PS2 portrayal of it. (Please note I am not in the habit of forcing kids to watch grisly torture scenes).
And let's look at this aspect... if an under-18 gets hold of a Hostel DVD, they can stick it in any DVD player or most computers, and off it goes. Difficult for parents to keep track of or stop happening even if they really wanted to. But with a PS2 game, they have to play it in a PS2 and will probably have to play it for a while, and get to grips with the controls etc before seeing anything anywhere near as bad as there is in those horror/torture flicks. If anything, they should be focusing on educating parents in how to prevent their children from getting hold of unsuitable material; unfortunately they are probably aware that this country is so overrun by massively breeding oafs, chavs and thugs that spurt out kids without a care or thought that educating them is simply too big a deal. So instead, everyone must suffer because the BBFC simply cannot do their jobs.
Also, for all the talk of computer games being a valid art/entertainment media, now the BBFC slap that notion back a few years by showing complete incompetence and short-sightedness by needlessly picking on a game that they simply do not understand.
Jesus, I could go on ranting all day about this. I am sick to death of hearing what those dumb f**kbags at the BBFC get up to. It must be lovely to be paid to sit on your fat arse all day, watch movies and be overly judgemental.
B******s to the minors, they are already screwed up beyond saving by their parents and the s**t society we have made. It's nothing to do with Manhunt. While the kids run around the streets burning cars and shooting each other, at least let the adults have a little entertaining distraction while we are locked indoors away from them in fear. Give us some bloody Manhunt 2 you selfish BBFC bastards. I promise I won't go round stabbing people in the testicles with ballpens. So long as it gets released.
Joshua 14 Nov 2008 06:19
2/2
I would write out a whole essay about this but bentley has sumed it up for me, like it matters if we get hold of 18 rated games I have always believed that the reason people get stabbed and killed by a younger generation is because of the way they are raised by thier parents not what they watch or play. Also I believe this world has gone too over the top with H&S that it may have lost sight of those Great lives they promise us and then they start banning things that are so petty it is just plain stupid.
Joshua.
P.s I am 16 by the way :-)
Joshua.
P.s I am 16 by the way :-)