Common Sense Comments On Manhunt 2: Bandwagon Getting Full
US 'child policy' organisation comments on mature rating
A North American organisation, Common Sense Media, has decided that it should now make a statement regarding Manhunt 2 - a game recently rated a M(ature) by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB).
Common Sense Media - which does a fine job informing parents throughout the States who can't be bothered to watch what their kids are watching - wants the world to know that:
"While we have recognized the ESRB in the past for its positive efforts to increase parental awareness of video game ratings, we take serious issue with the board’s recent decision to reduce Rockstar Games’ Manhunt 2 from an AO rating to an M rating without providing any rationale for the change.
"By all available accounts, Manhunt 2 is the most brutally violent game ever produced for wide release, including intense, realistic scenes of mutilation and even castration. Unfortunately, given Rockstar’s history of creating and selling irresponsibly violent and graphic content – you need look no further than Grand Theft Auto and the infamous Hot Coffee incident for evidence – this isn’t a surprise. Parents have probably come to expect bad behavior from Rockstar – but they deserve better from the ESRB.
"It is clear that by lowering the rating, the ESRB has all but ensured that the game will be marketed and sold through channels popular with kids and teens – and, despite industry claims to the contrary, kids under 17 can and do purchase M-rated games. Before Manhunt 2 is released for sale, parents deserve an explanation – they need to know the facts about this grossly violent game before it goes on the market.
"By failing to explain their decision and, in turn, provide the transparency that consumers need if they are to trust the ESRB’s ratings, the board threatens to undermine a ratings system that has many positive aspects and that could serve as an important tool for parents."
Lovely. Of course, we couldn't help notice the phrase, "By all available accounts..." which strikes us as rather limp. Apparently Common Sense Media can comment on games rated as... MATURE but can't actually call Rockstar for a copy of the game to actually play.
As for 'knowing the facts about this grossly violent game before it goes on the market' - the game has been rated as MATURE. Which bit of that isn't understood?
Prepare for more organisations defending the 'rights of children' to leap upon the bandwagon when they should instead be having a proper go at manufacturers of junk food or mind-bendingly bad television, very soon.
Common Sense Media - which does a fine job informing parents throughout the States who can't be bothered to watch what their kids are watching - wants the world to know that:
"While we have recognized the ESRB in the past for its positive efforts to increase parental awareness of video game ratings, we take serious issue with the board’s recent decision to reduce Rockstar Games’ Manhunt 2 from an AO rating to an M rating without providing any rationale for the change.
"By all available accounts, Manhunt 2 is the most brutally violent game ever produced for wide release, including intense, realistic scenes of mutilation and even castration. Unfortunately, given Rockstar’s history of creating and selling irresponsibly violent and graphic content – you need look no further than Grand Theft Auto and the infamous Hot Coffee incident for evidence – this isn’t a surprise. Parents have probably come to expect bad behavior from Rockstar – but they deserve better from the ESRB.
"It is clear that by lowering the rating, the ESRB has all but ensured that the game will be marketed and sold through channels popular with kids and teens – and, despite industry claims to the contrary, kids under 17 can and do purchase M-rated games. Before Manhunt 2 is released for sale, parents deserve an explanation – they need to know the facts about this grossly violent game before it goes on the market.
"By failing to explain their decision and, in turn, provide the transparency that consumers need if they are to trust the ESRB’s ratings, the board threatens to undermine a ratings system that has many positive aspects and that could serve as an important tool for parents."
Lovely. Of course, we couldn't help notice the phrase, "By all available accounts..." which strikes us as rather limp. Apparently Common Sense Media can comment on games rated as... MATURE but can't actually call Rockstar for a copy of the game to actually play.
As for 'knowing the facts about this grossly violent game before it goes on the market' - the game has been rated as MATURE. Which bit of that isn't understood?
Prepare for more organisations defending the 'rights of children' to leap upon the bandwagon when they should instead be having a proper go at manufacturers of junk food or mind-bendingly bad television, very soon.
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Comments
Joji 31 Aug 2007 11:46
1/8
Its an adult psych horror game. Just freaking well ask for ID when you sell copies. Why is that so hard, yanks?
That's bizarre. Hostel 2 had a dark castration scene and that's not banned is it? What a double standards world we live in.
Forget adults, just protect the children, who eventually become adults too. Whatever happened to the 'rights of adults'? Must children always come first? I don't think so, that would surely be age discrimination.
The web of U.S fear continues to weave itself.
That's bizarre. Hostel 2 had a dark castration scene and that's not banned is it? What a double standards world we live in.
Forget adults, just protect the children, who eventually become adults too. Whatever happened to the 'rights of adults'? Must children always come first? I don't think so, that would surely be age discrimination.
The web of U.S fear continues to weave itself.
deleted 1 Sep 2007 03:02
2/8
ok so what you do in this is it any worse than what we haev already played?, GTA for example:
Pick up hooker
take her to back street and screw her
pay her and let her get out of car
run her over gently
let her get back up to run
shoot her down with twin Uzi`s
steal back money
get back in car
run her over again drive and reverse a few times
leave tyre marks in blood up the street
go hire another hooker and so on
ok so who has played GTA and not done this, and if you have (and willing to admit it) has gone out feeling to urge to do it for real?
Just because you can virtually do something doesnt mean you will do it in real life, sure maybe one or two psychos in the world have played Manhunt, Gta etc and then gone on to commit crimes, but would they of commited them anyway without playing these games, im sure they would, The Government, do-gooders and even family of victims need to realise the world is a dark place and games are not the cause of this darkness, society in general is the cause, the sooner its realised the sooner we can sort these real problems.
Manhunt 2 should be release in the UK
Pick up hooker
take her to back street and screw her
pay her and let her get out of car
run her over gently
let her get back up to run
shoot her down with twin Uzi`s
steal back money
get back in car
run her over again drive and reverse a few times
leave tyre marks in blood up the street
go hire another hooker and so on
ok so who has played GTA and not done this, and if you have (and willing to admit it) has gone out feeling to urge to do it for real?
Just because you can virtually do something doesnt mean you will do it in real life, sure maybe one or two psychos in the world have played Manhunt, Gta etc and then gone on to commit crimes, but would they of commited them anyway without playing these games, im sure they would, The Government, do-gooders and even family of victims need to realise the world is a dark place and games are not the cause of this darkness, society in general is the cause, the sooner its realised the sooner we can sort these real problems.
Manhunt 2 should be release in the UK
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deleted 1 Sep 2007 03:19
3/8
@ first post, childrens rights should always be put first but its not the case, the government protects citizens best interests not citizens themselfs, with no age restriction but in the right(wrong) situation adults could be protected first, a government guideline for a chemical/virus war attack has some very grim rules to protection and survial of citizens, example: should an attack on the uk via chemical/virus war infect the population of the UK, a Vaccine that has been stocked by the Government in a quantity of 30 million(due to costs HA!) would be used to cure/help the UK, But the population is 60 million so who gets it? All children then adults? No sir, The guidelines state that anyone under the age of 7 would not be cured anyone over the age of 50 would not be cured, why?, Children under 7 would be seen as replenishable and a un-needed and dragging resource, children over the age of 7 would be needed as the next generation of adults to continue efforts and learn skills need to rebuild, adults between 16 & 45 could repopulate and rebuild the UK as well as be soilders and over 50 classed to old to be useful resource, so as you can see the government protects our interests and not us ourselfs, this is why i pointed out that the world is a dark place and for people to concern themselfs with a ban on a Game seems pathetic in comparison to these real problems.
PreciousRoi 1 Sep 2007 05:47
4/8
Joj, bubulah...easy there...the "web of US fear"?
We're the ones who are getting the game at all remember?
We're the ones who are getting the game at all remember?
Joji 2 Sep 2007 13:29
5/8
Haritori, you make some good points, lad.
Precious, I'm not having a go at the U.S as such so don't get on the offensive. All I'm saying is that, in the U.K, if any retail is caught selling fags or alcohol to minor, the consequences are bad. ID has to be produced to receive a sale and 90% of the time it works too (the other 10% can be circumvented by things like fag vending machines etc).
I know you guys have this same thing stateside for alcohol too. So why on earth is its so hard to do it for Mature rated games over there, to make sure they are sold to the correctly aged gamer? Sure, Manhunt has been cleared for release now, but doing this kind of action would shut people like JT and Mr Yee up. By doing nothing, all the industry is doing is playing into their hands and giving them ammo, to hurt us.
Because U.K ratings have cert 18, this numbered is more clear and concise than the debatable sounding and questionable Mature rating word (I can understand why parents might have problems with that). Its well enforced over here, 18 rated game, you ask for ID. No valid ID, no sale, simple as that.
Are you saying this is too hard for US retailers to do, Precious? If it isn't, then why not?
Precious, I'm not having a go at the U.S as such so don't get on the offensive. All I'm saying is that, in the U.K, if any retail is caught selling fags or alcohol to minor, the consequences are bad. ID has to be produced to receive a sale and 90% of the time it works too (the other 10% can be circumvented by things like fag vending machines etc).
I know you guys have this same thing stateside for alcohol too. So why on earth is its so hard to do it for Mature rated games over there, to make sure they are sold to the correctly aged gamer? Sure, Manhunt has been cleared for release now, but doing this kind of action would shut people like JT and Mr Yee up. By doing nothing, all the industry is doing is playing into their hands and giving them ammo, to hurt us.
Because U.K ratings have cert 18, this numbered is more clear and concise than the debatable sounding and questionable Mature rating word (I can understand why parents might have problems with that). Its well enforced over here, 18 rated game, you ask for ID. No valid ID, no sale, simple as that.
Are you saying this is too hard for US retailers to do, Precious? If it isn't, then why not?
PreciousRoi 2 Sep 2007 15:56
6/8
OK, if its all so simple, then why isn't Manhunt 2 being released in the UK as a 18+ game?
As for the Mature rating being confusing, sorry I don't see it...any native speaker of 'merican English who gets out of the cave once in a while should be able to grok the Mature rating...the only thing I could see it being confused with is over-50 p0rn, which shouldn't be sold to children either.
As for your unfortunate 'web of US fear' its a characterization that implies that Americans as a country or people are somehow responsible for such, when in reality its just the same sort of vocal minority that y'all have, except ours is apparently LESS influential and/or effective. As far as I know there isn't a major American newspaper thats made it their special mission to 'go after' violent viedo games, as I understand it, your local branch of the International Web of Fear has a major media outlet. Do you actually think that the average American is even aware of such people and their comments? Becasue I can tell you that unless they are gamers whose attention has been drawn to it by sites such as this, they are not. These people are self-appointed, and have zero influence beyond their mailing list.
The American Web of Fear concentrates on terrorism, and making sure that Republicans get elected...hell our government is MAKING violent videogames...sniper training anyone?
As for the Mature rating being confusing, sorry I don't see it...any native speaker of 'merican English who gets out of the cave once in a while should be able to grok the Mature rating...the only thing I could see it being confused with is over-50 p0rn, which shouldn't be sold to children either.
As for your unfortunate 'web of US fear' its a characterization that implies that Americans as a country or people are somehow responsible for such, when in reality its just the same sort of vocal minority that y'all have, except ours is apparently LESS influential and/or effective. As far as I know there isn't a major American newspaper thats made it their special mission to 'go after' violent viedo games, as I understand it, your local branch of the International Web of Fear has a major media outlet. Do you actually think that the average American is even aware of such people and their comments? Becasue I can tell you that unless they are gamers whose attention has been drawn to it by sites such as this, they are not. These people are self-appointed, and have zero influence beyond their mailing list.
The American Web of Fear concentrates on terrorism, and making sure that Republicans get elected...hell our government is MAKING violent videogames...sniper training anyone?
deleted 2 Sep 2007 17:50
7/8
PreciousRoi, most of the world is in fear of the US, and thats because of the the American govenment and their choices,so the way in which Joji was using his pharse `Web of US fear` is how the rest of the world is seeing things, yes it maybe an unfortunte phrase to say the least but its an unfortunate state of affairs that has put the worlds superpower in the limelight, i for one would love to go to New York ive never been but i fear for my saftey while im there, sure the UK may not be the saftest country in the world but our country is a hundred times safer than most, in regards to mature ratings it is confusing, we have 18+ simple as nothing more you aint 18 you dont get it(providing sales assitants and online stores check) but Mature could mean anything, is a 16 year old mature? is an 18year old mature?, is a 21 year mature?, is a 30 year old mature? what are we talking mature in a sense of age or emotional responsibility, it must cause confusion in parents because a parent may see there 15 year son as mature and therefore allow him to own the game, where as in the UK although a parent may see their 15 year old as mature they still will understand that the games rating is 18+ and because of such each parent would have a different opinion on purchasing the game. What is required i think is a world wide ratings system, which clearly shows age and contents, and if need be make some games 21+ like say manhunt 2 giving a clear impression that the game is for adults only. make a law that should anyone purchase these games on behalf of anyone then it would be crime and treated as such, and the next time good kid Billy shoots his school up and blames GTA or Manhunt, then the sales assitant or parent who ahnded it to him will be responsible along with Billy, i can tell you now parents will stop blaming games very quickly.
PreciousRoi 3 Sep 2007 07:11
8/8
Your last sentence proves you the fool. If history has shown us anything its that some parents (and their "advocates") will blame anything but themselves. Facts and truth do not penetrate these peoples reality.
As to the 'Mature' rating, is it any more confusing than the movie rating system? Sure someone who has been living in a vacuum might not know what the Restricted rating means, but everyone else should...especially a parent who has pretensions of 'being informed'.
I mean read the statements quoted in the article...first they slag off on the industry and the rating system and all but condemn it as completely ineffectual...
Because if they made it AO rated it wouldn't be sold at all...
Then they deplore this particular descision and apparently value the very system they were just describing as apparently useless...
"By failing to explain their decision and, in turn, provide the transparency that consumers need if they are to trust the ESRB’s ratings, the board threatens to undermine a ratings system that has many positive aspects and that could serve as an important tool for parents."
As to the 'Mature' rating, is it any more confusing than the movie rating system? Sure someone who has been living in a vacuum might not know what the Restricted rating means, but everyone else should...especially a parent who has pretensions of 'being informed'.
I mean read the statements quoted in the article...first they slag off on the industry and the rating system and all but condemn it as completely ineffectual...
?Common Sense? wrote:
"It is clear that by lowering the rating, the ESRB has all but ensured that the game will be marketed and sold through channels popular with kids and teens – and, despite industry claims to the contrary, kids under 17 can and do purchase M-rated games..."
Because if they made it AO rated it wouldn't be sold at all...
Then they deplore this particular descision and apparently value the very system they were just describing as apparently useless...
?Common Sense? wrote:
"By failing to explain their decision and, in turn, provide the transparency that consumers need if they are to trust the ESRB’s ratings, the board threatens to undermine a ratings system that has many positive aspects and that could serve as an important tool for parents."