360 Rumour Mill: £100 Price Drop, 100GB Premium Pack, HD-DVD Games?
Some rumours stamped out, others left to run amok.
SPOnG took an interesting call earlier this week from a seemingly non-fanboyish and fairly knowledgeable reader who claims to have spoken to a Microsoft employee earlier in the week, who told him that a 360 price cut was imminent ("between £50 and £100"), that a 100GB 360 Premium Pack would launch before Xmas and that Microsoft had definite plans to make games available on HD-DVD.
Whoa! Now, whilst the Microsoft employee in question was only a 'mere' customer services rep, and it sounded to SPOnG like he was just shooting the breeze and trying to impress our reader with his 'insider' knowledge, this is clearly how Internet rumours start. Indeed, these particular three mentioned above have spread across the Internet like a dirty virus.
So, instead of printing the bog-standard games website 'ZOMG! 360 to pwn PS3' type unsubstantiated news ('someone called us and told us they talked to someone else and they said it was definite' etc.) we've approached Microsoft in the UK to ask them to comment on all the above rumours. Whilst we have still to receive a reply from their office on all of this, we will literally eat our hats if they say anything other than 'Microsoft does not comment on rumour or speculation'.
However, there has been an official response on the HD-DVD games rumours from John Porcaro, group manager of PR and communications, who clearly states on the GamerScore blog that it's not part of the masterplan: "Since announcing the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player accessory at E3 2006, we've been clear that it is designed exclusively for playing HD-DVD movies. It will not play games on HD-DVD."
Should there be a change in strategy in 2007, which many suspect is on the cards if Microsoft is to combat the 'Blu-ray menace', then we will remind Mr Porcaro of his words.
Mr Porcaro also added: "At this point, we haven’t seen anything to suggest that next-gen DVD formats offer a better game experience than current DVD. What we do know is that these formats will bring added cost to game developers, disc manufacturing, and could even result in added costs and longer load times for the consumer, which would negatively impact the game experience. We are focused on making great HD games available to consumers now, and games like “The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion” clearly show that beautiful high def graphics and huge, immersive worlds to explore are possible on the DVD9 format."
As for the rumours of an imminent price drop and the introduction of a 100GB Premium Pack for the 2006 Christmas holiday money-spunking season, we'll keep you posted as soon as we hear back from Microsoft on those.
UPDATE: We just heard from Microsoft UK who informed us that 'we don't comment on rumour or speculation'. Our hats are safe.
Whoa! Now, whilst the Microsoft employee in question was only a 'mere' customer services rep, and it sounded to SPOnG like he was just shooting the breeze and trying to impress our reader with his 'insider' knowledge, this is clearly how Internet rumours start. Indeed, these particular three mentioned above have spread across the Internet like a dirty virus.
So, instead of printing the bog-standard games website 'ZOMG! 360 to pwn PS3' type unsubstantiated news ('someone called us and told us they talked to someone else and they said it was definite' etc.) we've approached Microsoft in the UK to ask them to comment on all the above rumours. Whilst we have still to receive a reply from their office on all of this, we will literally eat our hats if they say anything other than 'Microsoft does not comment on rumour or speculation'.
However, there has been an official response on the HD-DVD games rumours from John Porcaro, group manager of PR and communications, who clearly states on the GamerScore blog that it's not part of the masterplan: "Since announcing the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player accessory at E3 2006, we've been clear that it is designed exclusively for playing HD-DVD movies. It will not play games on HD-DVD."
Should there be a change in strategy in 2007, which many suspect is on the cards if Microsoft is to combat the 'Blu-ray menace', then we will remind Mr Porcaro of his words.
Mr Porcaro also added: "At this point, we haven’t seen anything to suggest that next-gen DVD formats offer a better game experience than current DVD. What we do know is that these formats will bring added cost to game developers, disc manufacturing, and could even result in added costs and longer load times for the consumer, which would negatively impact the game experience. We are focused on making great HD games available to consumers now, and games like “The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion” clearly show that beautiful high def graphics and huge, immersive worlds to explore are possible on the DVD9 format."
As for the rumours of an imminent price drop and the introduction of a 100GB Premium Pack for the 2006 Christmas holiday money-spunking season, we'll keep you posted as soon as we hear back from Microsoft on those.
UPDATE: We just heard from Microsoft UK who informed us that 'we don't comment on rumour or speculation'. Our hats are safe.
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Comments
Joji 17 Aug 2006 13:09
1/13
Interesting stuff. If this new 100gb pack does come in what happens to the entry level 360 package. Will MS be selling three packs? Either way I'm more likely to invest in one somehow.
Like I said, this all spells bad news for Sony. The bit I don't agree with is the HD-DVD game part. What happens if developers don't bite this option, and start to bail in a similar way PS3 development is already experiencing?
My greatest fear is for game prices. A close friend of mine has a 360 and refuses to buy a game for £50-60.
I can sympathise to the point where I'd turn to ebay.
Bad news for Game etc.
Like I said, this all spells bad news for Sony. The bit I don't agree with is the HD-DVD game part. What happens if developers don't bite this option, and start to bail in a similar way PS3 development is already experiencing?
My greatest fear is for game prices. A close friend of mine has a 360 and refuses to buy a game for £50-60.
I can sympathise to the point where I'd turn to ebay.
Bad news for Game etc.
PreciousRoi 17 Aug 2006 13:32
2/13
Joji wrote:
Like I said, this all spells bad news for Sony. The bit I don't agree with is the HD-DVD game part. What happens if developers don't bite this option, and start to bail in a similar way PS3 development is already experiencing?
what do you mean by this? what and who is it that you don't agree with?
*does lame Dalek impression*
specify!
SPECIFY!!
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Dreadknux 17 Aug 2006 15:04
3/13
I think Joji means that, if reliance is placed in the HD-DVD format for XBOX 360 and developers don't like the look of it, they could jump ship or get apathetic to the console. Which is fair enough.
I'm not sure that would be the case though, if developers don't like the look of HD-DVD or feel pressurised to do whatever for it, they'll more likely just ignore MS and just develop a bog-standard 360 DVD format version of the game.
Unless I completely misunderstood Joji's point. XP
I'm not sure that would be the case though, if developers don't like the look of HD-DVD or feel pressurised to do whatever for it, they'll more likely just ignore MS and just develop a bog-standard 360 DVD format version of the game.
Unless I completely misunderstood Joji's point. XP
PreciousRoi 17 Aug 2006 15:10
4/13
Thats what confused me, 'cuz it looked like teh MS was denying (for the moment) that they were going to use the HD-DVD for games.
*rereads news item and Joji's post*
Unless he disagrees with the position stated about HD not being neccessary. But that isn't what I get from the context.
*rereads news item and Joji's post*
Unless he disagrees with the position stated about HD not being neccessary. But that isn't what I get from the context.
crs117 17 Aug 2006 15:16
5/13
I say BS. There is really no reason to move game production to a higher density format such as HD-DVD.
1. FIrst and foremost it will cost more to manufacture the disks.
2. DVD's are more than sufficient for almost any kind of game, especially given the types of video compression techniques that can be employed with modern hardware. The only company that may give issue would be Square enix with the FF series of interactive videos.
3. Load times...Early gen optical formats always experience way slow load times. It is actually interesting that we have no idea how long load times for ps3 games are going to be. I mean next gen optical formats always access last gen media (dvd) at a much slower speed than would be desirable.
4. Why would a developer develop for a format that automatically alienates the common user base? They wouldnt. If the only people that could play a game was cut into an 8th of an installed user base then you automatically shoot your sales in the foot. Dont beleive me...see how long it has taken developers to embrace DVD development for PCs. It is still way hard to find DVD versions of PC games.
So BS.
1. FIrst and foremost it will cost more to manufacture the disks.
2. DVD's are more than sufficient for almost any kind of game, especially given the types of video compression techniques that can be employed with modern hardware. The only company that may give issue would be Square enix with the FF series of interactive videos.
3. Load times...Early gen optical formats always experience way slow load times. It is actually interesting that we have no idea how long load times for ps3 games are going to be. I mean next gen optical formats always access last gen media (dvd) at a much slower speed than would be desirable.
4. Why would a developer develop for a format that automatically alienates the common user base? They wouldnt. If the only people that could play a game was cut into an 8th of an installed user base then you automatically shoot your sales in the foot. Dont beleive me...see how long it has taken developers to embrace DVD development for PCs. It is still way hard to find DVD versions of PC games.
So BS.
Dreadknux 17 Aug 2006 15:46
6/13
crs117 wrote:
1. FIrst and foremost it will cost more to manufacture the disks.
2. DVD's are more than sufficient for almost any kind of game, especially given the types of video compression techniques that can be employed with modern hardware. The only company that may give issue would be Square enix with the FF series of interactive videos.
3. Load times...Early gen optical formats always experience way slow load times. It is actually interesting that we have no idea how long load times for ps3 games are going to be. I mean next gen optical formats always access last gen media (dvd) at a much slower speed than would be desirable.
4. Why would a developer develop for a format that automatically alienates the common user base? They wouldnt. If the only people that could play a game was cut into an 8th of an installed user base then you automatically shoot your sales in the foot. Dont beleive me...see how long it has taken developers to embrace DVD development for PCs. It is still way hard to find DVD versions of PC games.
So BS.
2. DVD's are more than sufficient for almost any kind of game, especially given the types of video compression techniques that can be employed with modern hardware. The only company that may give issue would be Square enix with the FF series of interactive videos.
3. Load times...Early gen optical formats always experience way slow load times. It is actually interesting that we have no idea how long load times for ps3 games are going to be. I mean next gen optical formats always access last gen media (dvd) at a much slower speed than would be desirable.
4. Why would a developer develop for a format that automatically alienates the common user base? They wouldnt. If the only people that could play a game was cut into an 8th of an installed user base then you automatically shoot your sales in the foot. Dont beleive me...see how long it has taken developers to embrace DVD development for PCs. It is still way hard to find DVD versions of PC games.
So BS.
Funnily enough, that's pretty much what people were saying about Microsoft when they said no games would ever use the hard drive. "It would alienate the user base", "It would be too troublesome", "Memory Cards will be sufficient".
Look what happened. :P
BTW it would likely cost a publisher less to manufacture a game on one HD-DVD than 2 DVDs if a game ever got big enough to warrant 2 DVDs. That's the only way I see HD-DVD only games appearing in the near future. So in that instance, your first point isn't strictly true.
Mind you, I don't believe HD-DVD only games will pop up any time soon. I say that, even though there's a nagging thought that MS will do it anyway and go back on their word again. Ah well...
ozfunghi 17 Aug 2006 16:14
7/13
It wouldn't make sense to put games on HD DVD discs all of a sudden, and force gamers to buy the add-on. It would put them at the same price as PS3, for an older system, with marginally less power, and a huge ugly EXTERNAL drive. That or they'd cut up their installed userbase, which wouldn't be good for the software.
360 owners might just as well go for PS3 then.
360 owners might just as well go for PS3 then.
crs117 17 Aug 2006 16:37
8/13
Svend Joscelyne wrote:
BTW it would likely cost a publisher less to manufacture a game on one HD-DVD than 2 DVDs if a game ever got big enough to warrant 2 DVDs. That's the only way I see HD-DVD only games appearing in the near future. So in that instance, your first point isn't strictly true.
Mind you, I don't believe HD-DVD only games will pop up any time soon. I say that, even though there's a nagging thought that MS will do it anyway and go back on their word again. Ah well...
I cant imagine that the cost of producing 2 dvd's for a game costing more than the price of pressing a single HD-DVD disk. I cannot find the manufacturing cost for different disk formats but the simple fact that not all facilities are capable of pressing hd-dvd disks would lead me to believe you would still pay a premium over the penny or so it costs to press a DVD. Of course hd-dvd will be incredibly cheaper to produce than blu-ray.
i would love to be corrected on this just to know for sure, but after searching i could not find any meaningful price comparisons between hd-dvd vs dvd production.
Dreadknux 17 Aug 2006 18:37
9/13
crs117 wrote:
I cant imagine that the cost of producing 2 dvd's for a game costing more than the price of pressing a single HD-DVD disk. I cannot find the manufacturing cost for different disk formats but the simple fact that not all facilities are capable of pressing hd-dvd disks would lead me to believe you would still pay a premium over the penny or so it costs to press a DVD. Of course hd-dvd will be incredibly cheaper to produce than blu-ray.
i would love to be corrected on this just to know for sure, but after searching i could not find any meaningful price comparisons between hd-dvd vs dvd production.
i would love to be corrected on this just to know for sure, but after searching i could not find any meaningful price comparisons between hd-dvd vs dvd production.
Yeah you got a good point, I stand corrected. Mind you, if publishers do find it's cheaper to do so, I don't think they'll be thinking twice about it.
tyrion 17 Aug 2006 18:53
10/13
crs117 wrote:
i would love to be corrected on this just to know for sure, but after searching i could not find any meaningful price comparisons between hd-dvd vs dvd production.
Ask and you shall receive.
DVD Replication Services
HD DVD Replication Services
And just for fun
Blu-ray DVD Replication Services
First place I found after a quick Google, so you may get better prices, but essentially it breaks down like this (per disc prices for batches of 5,000).
DVD 5: $0.58
DVD 9: $0.79
HD-DVD 15: $1.69
HD-DVD 30: $1.99
Blu-ray 25: $1.99
I make that three DVD 9s to one HD-DVD 15 (actually 2.139, but you'd need a three disc game to save money) and the same for a Blu-ray 25.
SuperSaiyan4 18 Aug 2006 12:36
11/13
Well its interesting I guess over time we will see what happens. Although as mentioned already Micrsoft said the HDD will not be used for games but they do e.g. Oblivion does and if you go to Xbox.com it clearly says Ninety Nine Nights is HARD DRIVE ENHANCED - I rang Microsoft to check what this meant and they say it means it uses the hard drive...however the game still has frame rate issues.
Anyhow whenever Microsoft has said that they do not comment on rumours and speculation most of the time these rumours have been true...
Looking at this site it pretty much proves in a way on why HD-DVD will probably never be needed for games:
http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=1132
Anyhow whenever Microsoft has said that they do not comment on rumours and speculation most of the time these rumours have been true...
Looking at this site it pretty much proves in a way on why HD-DVD will probably never be needed for games:
http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=1132
crs117 18 Aug 2006 17:42
12/13
I guess it all depends on what you use for search criteria. I tried googling according to media manufacturing prices thinking that some tech site had already done the footwork. I didnt think of actually trying to find a media reproduction site myself.
Also, it states that additional setup fees apply to both HD-DVD and Blu-ray disk production. I have no idea what that means either literally or financially.
I am quite suprised that blu-ray reproduction is as cheap as it is with all the stuff i have read about the costs it requires to update a dvd facility to be able to press bluray disks.
Also, it states that additional setup fees apply to both HD-DVD and Blu-ray disk production. I have no idea what that means either literally or financially.
I am quite suprised that blu-ray reproduction is as cheap as it is with all the stuff i have read about the costs it requires to update a dvd facility to be able to press bluray disks.
tyrion 18 Aug 2006 17:53
13/13
crs117 wrote:
Also, it states that additional setup fees apply to both HD-DVD and Blu-ray disk production. I have no idea what that means either literally or financially.
WHat is probably means is what you alluded to next;
crs117 wrote:
I am quite suprised that blu-ray reproduction is as cheap as it is with all the stuff i have read about the costs it requires to update a dvd facility to be able to press bluray disks.
The additional setup fees are probably due to re-tooling the production lines for Blu-ray and re-organising the supply lines for HD-DVD.