Revolution functions mooted: Nintendo coy over E3

As far as I know Revolution shouldn't have backwards compatibility problems when it does come out. Think it supposed to be running the same GC disk media which in a way would make perfect sense. Lack of piracy is what Nintendo want and I don't see them wanting to let go of that anytime soon.

I think the fact that Nintendo are not market leaders shouldn't stop them from following their own ideas and vision. The fact the DS is shiftng so much is a loud and perhaps unwanted wake up call to an industry that's far too comfortable giving us bad product.

Sure the GC was released in purple but it was also in black at the same time of release so everyone had choice. The Panasonic Q (which was only released in Japan) shows that Nintendo tried that DVD option but perhaps because of PS2 it didn't take off as well. I would have love to have seen it released in EU/U.K but I think the fact it had no region lock may have put them off the idea (surely this could have been easily sorted and also don't forget that this Panasonic Q was out before Xbox came out). Lastly from a design perspective or otherwise you people forget that previous Nintendo consoles have been purple so it's nothing Nintendo haven't done before (the U.S Snes was purple and grey, and Nintendo back in the 80's have also done a solar powered DK+Mario game which was also purple).

Don't even go into the pad designs for GC because Nintendo hit the right note with that one. MS had to change theirs and Sony just perfected a old Nintendo design.

Perhaps Nintendo should just choose blue next time but to be honest I really don't care how it looks. Many have slated the DS for bad looks even though it's silver and not purple (though there is a purple option). Everyone is a kid inside not matter how much you try to hide it anyway. Besides I don't see the 6mil or so DS users complaining about such trivial stuff.

For the next round Nintendo will be rolling out the life boat fleet to rescue themselves and hopefully a slowly suffering industry.

Yeah, the Q was only released in Japan, although it was amazingly cool. Christ, it even had an LCD display on the front to show which game was being played - how cool can you get?!

I personally think the GC disks were the ideal game media, and I hope we see their return for Revolution/GBA2, especially as there should still be room for the technology to grow in capacity.

I loved the Cube control pad - it's really comfortable (unlike Xbox), and the analogue stick isn't in an absurd place (unlike PS2). It even beats the Super NES. Incidently, the Xbox pad feels like a Genesis/Mega Drive pad.

it should, console controller evolution is a subject I know a little about...

Sony comes from the SNES.

Xbox controller comes from MS Sidewinder (something most Sony fanboys forget), which comes from the Sega Genesis controller.

All in all I'd say the SNES is the most influential controller yet produced.

Anyone know which console had the first analog stick? I think I do...

first off, you completely missed the sarcasm, didn't you?

secondly, you actually said laking again, (points and laughs) How do you use a 10 dollar word like astute, then misspell laking AGAIN?

Also, N64 looked, if anything MORE toy-like than the GC (especially the controller which was s**te), and nothing in Nintendo's reputation as a maker of wholesome, kid-safe games has changed

Your kung-fu is weak, I gain no honor in your utter defeat.

Adam, If Panasonic Qube had been released in US, I might have bought one, it looks hella tight.

Yeah, that was the N64 which changed the way we once played. Even though you might not have personally like the pad it served the games on N64 well, Goldeneye amongst others used it especially well. The rest is history.

I find the PS2 analogue controls sometimes awkward to use. I do agree with the SNES pad as being simple and perfect. Think you can get the Hori GC import pads which are in the same mold. The MD six-button pad was also very nice.

Do you realize the big problem of not being industry standard? The problem is alienation. Theres a difference between being unique and being over the top. School is a perfect example. There was always the cool kid with the newest, cutting edge stuff. Obviously this kid is unique and people will flock to him to check out the new stuff he has. Then theres the alienated social outcast. Either he's too behind the times or he's way too different from the others.
This could be Nintendo. Revolutions cannot happen overnight if they are to succeed, they must be integrated in baby steps or else everything will collapse. History is a perfect benchmark for these things. Look at the French Revolution. Everything happened so quickly that the french republic only lasted 10 yrs between 1789 and 1799 before the rise of Napoleon. The whole revolution fell apart because they reverted back to their old ways of one leader rather than a democratic consensus.
Even take a look at Hitler. It's argueable that one main area that caused his downfall was too much expansion too quickly. Just like a balloon if it inflates too fast, it will pop and pop with a bang.

Another problem is the GC media. Yes, they need to combat piracy but I think piracy is less of an issue now than it was during the PSX days. Plus developers are whining left right and center about lack of space right now. How could they possibly continue to use the same medium when even PSP disks hold more information? Once again this ties into the whole idea of standard. Without some sort of standard line the industry can go off of, people joining the revolution could be extremely cautious. It all depends on the reception of the market, and Nintendo's handle on the home console market hasn't been very good in the past 10 years. If they decide to do what they please and there is no response, where does that leave them? You cant compare the home consoles of Nintendo with their handheld lines. It's comparing apples to oranges. The handheld markets seem to be more receptive while the home console markets like the way things are right now.
What's wrong with the formula? Nothing really. We really haven't reached photorealism yet. I think Nintendo's jumping the gun too early.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

"changed the way we once played"???

what does that even mean?

4-player split screen? keep it, I'll pass thank you
4-player party games? ...ditto...
analog stick? ...sorry the Atari 5200 has you beat by a few decades
Nintendo franchise games? wouldn't they have been even better on a GOOD console?
stubborn insistence on cartriges? bonehead move, buisnesswise
dead end in the controller evolutionalry tree? almost, the one thing they kept was the button names
collectors edition colored controllers? ok, I'm just being mean now...

please explain it to me, because I never got it, just what was so influential about the N64? The controller was crap, if it wasn't then how come that design didn't survive beyond then names of a few buttons? Even Nintendo fanboys I know who loved Goldeneye hated that controller...

An interesting post you made dude. Most interesting was you first paragraph and indeed you speak some truth but there is something you missed. What you missed is the fact that it's not Nintendo that is really pushing this applecart for new hardware, it's the leaders in the market, Sony and MS especially. If Nintendo were in the lead I'm sure things would be quite different but not by that much. We'd probably have more GC.

I personally think PS2 could last another year and more so for the GC, which I believe Nintendo intended to last until 2007. Same for Xbox too could have lasted longer. The revolution console could have waited until 2007, but because of developers chasing this holy grail of graphics and a.i we are ushered in a certain direction. And why is this? Because better a.i and graphics make games better and not gameplay apparently. I think this is a little lame but Nintendo like Sony and MS must make their own way towards their own vision.

Like the average VCR lasts ten years I long for the day that a console will last the same and give the consumer some security in their purchase.

I was in no way comparing the home console market to the handheld one as I know they are two very different beasts. Any comparisons made were on specific examples or practices from each.

So you think piracy is less of an issue than the PSX days? Dude, that is pure bs. In this age of cheap high speed internet access where Halo 2 and Half Life 2 get leaked onto the net before they have even had a commercial release I'm sure is a lot more damaging than a few copies on a market stall somewhere. Also take into account the rise of P2P filesharing where several games end up. You talk of standard media formats, well with GC media I think Nintendo are trying to offer that, though we are yet to see if the Rev will use only these discs. As for space the UMDs only hold a little more than GCS discs. Whether they decide to use any of the newer HD-DVD or Blu Ray formats is really up to them as these would offer the possibility of double sided discs games. Hopefully that should shut developers up about space issues, as there will never be enough space for them since their ideas always crave more, more, more.

Nintendo is just aiming for games whereas MS and Sony are trying for the media center dream. If Nintend o come up with something different good luck to them. Currently the quest for photo-realism is almost over but what happens then? Do we then retreat into cel shaded etc games for escape? The whole reason many like games is because they are a break from reality, so do you not fear that things might become too real that they become boring?

If it ain't broke don't fix it?

The way the industry is headng without something new it will break it's own back without any help from us. To much playing it safe will be the knife in it's back.

How did the N64 change the way of gaming to date, easy.
First of all, the N64 did had the first analog stick, all those others some people mention are actually minituare joysticks, they look like analog sticks but are still stuck in the 0/1 digital way of comunicating, i've got one, well actually it's a d-pad where you can screw in this small plastic mini-joystick making it look like a analog stick. What makes analog control analog is that it doens't have 2 stances (0 or 1) but dozens. There's a reason why techheads yelled "it can't be done" when Nintendo used "analog" and "control" in the same sentence when their Project Reality was about to be shown.

Why is the N64 the definer of 3D-gaming: Super Mario 64, it's the blueprint of every third-person 3d-game to date, thanks to the 3d-capabilites of the N64, the analog stick and EAD's talent. And the N64 had a lot of innovative gamedesigns, more then the GC.

And about controllers, every controller gave me cramps after some time except the GC one. Do mind, i have long fingers and the love the smooth design of the GC.

Thanks for filling in the gaps Optimus, because some folk in here obviously don't know their gaming history.

And who was the talking about Atari 5200? Don't make me laugh. Next thing we'll hear is that Atari invented the control pad which is total bs. The Atari 5200 also wasn't playing games in total 3D, was it? Doh!

As for humour and sarcasm, those things are sometimes hard to paint in a forum when we are discussing something we have passion for.

I don't believe that the consoles could last until 2007. It's true that consoles nowadays are aging slower than their predecessors, but you have to look at the economics. It only makes sense to release another console every 5 years because by that point there will be a noticable increase in graphics, artificial intelligence, hardware strength and the overall capability of a machine. These companies are in the industry to make money and what was the biggest cashcow to date? The PS2. Sony could have waited another year or two, especially since the N64 never truly completed its lifecycle, but the simple fact is that new technology is what (usually) brings in the money. The only anomaly was the Dreamcast, it was merely launched at the wrong time.

Don't you believe that with new technology comes better gameplay hand in hand? Don't you think that the experience is heightened when games edge closer towards reality? I think so. I'm not saying just increases in graphics, ai and sound. I do believe there has to be innovation, otherwise technology will never progress, but innovations IMO would be best served when the holy grail of graphics, ai and sound are reached. Then developers will have no choice but to create the best product possible in terms of gameplay when this has been reached.

With the piracy issue you're comparing apples to oranges. Piracy via PC is much different than piracy on a console. In the PSX days everyone had a chip. I know not one person who pirates PS2 or Xbox games. I know it can still be done, but my arguement is that piracy on consoles isn't as widespread as it is for the PC, which is exponentially worse when compared to 1995-2000.

And isn't it obvious that developers need more space if they want to be innovative? They're going to be writing thousands more lines of code, as well as pushing current technology to its limit by increased texture resolution, mapping techniques, shading techniques, polygon counts. You name it. Isn't that why we switched from VHS to DVD? More space = more content, features and quality (if developers are willing to take advantage). Nintendo shot itself in the foot with cartridges and in some cases did so again with the GC media discs. I'm not saying piracy isnt important, I'm saying create a media disc that holds a comparable amount of data while still being piracy-proof.

But as I stated before, Revolutions cannot happen overnight lest they want to be forgotten like yesterdays lunch UNLESS they have all the right components to make this revolution happen flawlessly. Granted, there is no guarantee it will fly or not, but the destiny of the Revolution rests on the shoulders of the gaming community. Its all about whether consumers will embrace and accept this product, or shun it for being different. Nintendo must make sure that they won't cater to a niche market, as well as realize whether consumers are ready to accept such a product or whether most are content with the direction MS and Sony are taking it. Looking at the numbers in N. America it seems as if consumers are pretty damn happy with that direction. Its too bad they don't have the same level of acceptance for innovation as Japan does. (Xbox is not an innovation in Japan, they dont want Americans pissing into their market :P)

I agree with PreciousRoi.

I just don't see how the N64 was revolutionary. It was one of the most evolutionary consoles out there - an obvious move into 3D with a (fairly) poor unresponsive controller, fairly poor graphics and framerate with mutiplayer and only a few excellent games.

Well, it's true that you can call every revolution a evolution. Even the French Revolution and the Industrial Revolution are being called evolutions by historians. The problem is that they research the object so much they kill the magic around it (damn you science!).
So for all the pessimists out there, the N64 wasn't really a revolution. But it is the blueprint of 3D-gaming to date, it was the console that said "and this is the way it should be done, now go home you 3D-wannabe's!"

Does more power lead to new game experciences? Partly yes but you need some bloody good teams that can use that power into something that can used in games. Take HL2 for example, before it was released you allready had games that used some very impressive physics but gameplay-wise it added zippo. Valve really used it's physics engine for gameplay reasons.
The problem is, after physics what other aspect of real-life can you use gameplay-wise? Yes we can have better AI and better physics. Time-altering gameplay exists allready too but isn't really spectacular (maybe Big N has to show everyone how it should be done...again, what leads to my believe that the Revolution will have a hard-disk so that Nintendo can have all their 64DD ideas worked out).

So quite frankly, how do you get new games? Change the control-interface, change the way how we control games and boom, new games get!

what does "total 3d" have to do with analog controls? hell, you need two analog sticks to move around in "total 3d" anyway dont'cha? Whats so great about the invention of the control pad anyway? One of the main reasons I was completely unimpressed withy the NES was the use of the pad. Its an evolutionary step backwards from a joystick actually... I wouldn't even WANT credit for that if I did "invent" it, which actually I may have, messing around with a broken 2600 joystick board...but, please don't tell anyone, I'd rather let Nintendo or whoever get the blame for that.

Oh yeah, laugh all you want, the 5200 had an analog joystick, and they were quite common on Apples and PCs at the time. So sorry, Nintendo was at least a decade and a half or more late with their implementation of analog controls.

So I still don't see where the N64 "changed the way" anyone once played, aside from providing a temporary home for Nintendo franchises. You can say that about mebbe 3 consoles, ever(4 if you count the C64), and the N64 isn't one of them.

C64>n64

I just don't see the n64 as a blueprint, except in the sense that Nintendo wisely left most of the design elements of the n64 in a dusty drawer somewhere and moved on. I'd call it more of an series of experiments, many of which were complete failures, some of which were not.

I'd say it was more like, "Here's our attempt at 3-D, maybe one of you guys can do a better job, Lord I sure hope so...we would have tried harder and done better, but we're Nintendo, so we don't have to."