It Must be the Time of Year – Sony Savages DS – Full Story Inside

Quick math reveals that in the last week the DS outsold the PSP, PS2, GameCube, XBox, GBA SP, and GBA...PUT TOGETHER!

Yeah and the DS is outselling the PSP in america this year even though it came out last year and sold 1.4 million units last year, so its at least 1.4 million units ahead in America. Plus since the PSP isn't even out over here and i read months ago that the DS has passed a million units in euope the PSP is at least 3 million behind in worldwide sales and DS is still selling faster!

I'm not surprized in the slightest. Sony has been giving the succesful history of realizing that, when outmatched, it can still use anti-pr to prey on the minds of easily influenced people.

Sony has proven time and time again, that there is no way they could ever let their product speak for itself, they must try to lower the competition as much as possible in order for their stuff to even stand a chance.

Sony tried to rub off microsoft as no competition a month ago and now they're saying the same thing about nintendo, man it must be nice to have the market all to themselves!

Hopefully Sony will outplay themselves right into the smallest share of nextgen, I need not even say hopefully about the portable, Nintendo is, as you guys pointed out, crusing in the #1 slot. At least if I have anything to do with it, Sony will have 1 less dimbfounded comsumer clamoring for their inflated product.

http://forums.spong.com/en/html/forum/viewThread.jsp?message=15647&thread=2459&forum=8

this is pathetic.its clear what sony are doing,they feel threatend by the DS so they must attack it in the only way possible...its sad.

Dear mother of heaven!for the best performance he's to be awarded a pink NDS under the Christmas tree

It's funny. In my honest opinion I feel that both handhelds aren't living up to the hype each has been given, with that said however, I also believe that NDS is far more accessible than the PSP and also has a wider audience. I know a guy who's 42 yrs old, who owns a high end PC and a PS2 yet he was still very intrigued by the touch screen even though he's never played Pokemon. For me, it seems that the PSP caters to a very specific market, one which is tech saavy, needless to say not everyone is, especially gamers on the run.
I also find it funny that Pokemon hasn't even made a splash on NDS yet and Sony's writing off the DS's sales as pokemon related. Right now it's a case of good first party games, and that's what the DS has. It may change in the future but that's a large reason why the DS is outselling the PSP even in the technical world of North America.

I'd suggest to Sony and their employees that they should shut up instead of slagging off their competition. I haven't read the interview that this guy's comments are quoted from but I'd really like to have asked him a question.
"What is the point of the PSP?"
I don't want to sound anti psp because I'm not, it's a nice looking system and I'd like to see it reach it's potential.
I've said it several times on this forum that there's some really good looking software coming out (pro evo, virtua tennis..) but who is it aimed at and what is it supposed to do? Are Sony going to try to make all their profits out of UMD movie discs or extra memory stick duos?

And of the games that look good, they are all too much like regular console games. If I owned a PS2 then I'm not so sure I'd be that interested in most of them as I could get the same title without having to spend on new hardware I'm also unlikely to be taking it out places so it being portable or not makes no difference to me.

It's no fluke that the DS does so well. It has a control system that is totally transparent. If you can hold a pen (or blow) then you can play it and there is a range of software to cater for all sorts of tastes and all sorts of gamers. That is something that I think Sony should spend their time and their money working on before trying to put others down.

I've just re-read the MCV article and, to be honest, Phil Harrison has a bit of a point.

Not that the DS is an irrelevance, because he didn't say that.

He actually said "The idea of a handheld rivalry with Nintendo is an irrelevance", "Those formats don't appear in our planning", or at least that's what he was quoted as saying.

MCV are the ones who spun it with a headline of "The competition is irrelevant".

Now it's true that the whole tone of the interview could have lead MCV to the understanding that Phil thinks the DS and GBA are irrelevant, but that's not what their article says. The article says that Sony aren't planning on directly competing with GBA and DS.

The whole "It's not a fair comparison; not fair on them..." quote is a bit high-handed, but he never calls the DS an irrelevance.

The thing is, and here I'm speaking from my own perspective, so bear with me, the DS and the PSP are not direct competitors. Sure they are both handheld games consoles, but that's where the comparisons stop.

The DS is trying to expand the handheld market into the non-gamers by hosting easy to play games that only last a few minutes. Although, the non-skippable intros to the games in Warioware Touched annoyed the hell out of me.

The PSP is trying to do for the handheld market what the PS1 did for the under the TV market - expand it into the lifestyle market. The PSP is aimed at the same market that the iPod is.

The iPod is getting more and more capabilities that move it away from just a music player. The iPod Photo was the fist step, there is talk of a "vPod" video player in the near future.

Now surely the iPod line won't get games, but with music, photos and video the comparisons to PSP are stronger than the PSP to DS ones.

We, of course, see the games first since we are gamers and the PSP is a PlayStation Portable after all. However, Sony is a hardware and media company that has fingers in many pies. That some of that hardware and some of that media are to do with gaming is an aside to them.

The PSP is their first stab at the elusive "do everything" mobile device of Sci-Fi stories. Once they figure out how to put a phone in there without comparisons to the N-Gage flowing like water, they will have a good chance at establishing that market.

Think about it, Sony have the following under their umbrella; games, films, music, mobile phones, photo cameras, video cameras, televisions and audio devices. They are very well placed to put it all together into a single device.

Now I'm not saying this device is just around the corner, it's probably five to 10 years off at least, but the PSP is a toe in the water.

UMD movies are selling well in the US, two have topped 100,000 sales, for an installed base that would be lucky to have reached 1,000,000 (hardware sales topped 500,000 in April, but have slowed over summer) that's not bad. Two films have reached about 10% of the target audience. And that didn't include the Spider-Man 2 disk included in the box.

Anyway, back to my point, the PSP is not aimed at the same market as the DS, hence a direct comparison to the DS is not valid, it is an irrelevance to the marketing plan Sony has in place.

Whether you agree with that marketing plan is down to you to decide, but convergence is coming, you can't blame Sony for giving it a go.

I somwhat agree with you, but its kind of like comparing an Apple to a PC. Apples have a much better performance in terms of raw specs and are much more capable of handling graphic intensive programs. PCs are more open ended but aren't as up to snuff compared to Apples graphically. You could say that Apples are made for the Elite (graphic designers etc) while PCs are made for the general populace. Therefore you could say that PCs and Apples are not in direct competition, yet they still are.

Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that although both handhelds are targeting different audiences, theres no chance that either company wouldnt want 100% of the market share, meaning that both companies would love to have audiences not targeted specifically for the handheld in question.

I see what you are trying to see here, but it's a bit flawed. Apple Macs and PCs use the same graphics chips/cards as each other. They use the same memory chips as each other and generally have the same graphical capabilities as each other.

MacOS has a better rendering subsystem for things like fonts and colour distribution. That's why designers favour Macs. Plus the entrenched "Macs are for design" attitude that permeates the industry.


I'd take exception to that assumption. There are a lot of design houses and the like that use PCs.

Macs are designed by Apple to do exactly the same things that PCs are designed to do, they have a history in design and graphics in general, but they are just as capable as PCs in other areas.


I think your basic analogy is flawed, as I've pointed out above, the closest I can come to the comparison I was outlining is with motor vehicles.

Consider a car and a truck. Both are motor vehicles, use the road system to get where they are going and share several physical attributes. However, a car is a personal transport system, it's limited to what it can carry and it's made to be comfortable. On the other hand a truck is designed to carry cargo, not people and can carry many different types of cargo. It's built to be functional, not comfortable.

While both Volvo and Ford make cars that compete against each other, Volvo wouldn't consider its trucks to be in competition with Ford's Fiestas.

Even that analogy is slightly flawed since the DS and PSP are closer to each other in basic functionality than a truck and a car. However it's the closest I can get to a non-games comparison that makes the point I was trying to get across.


Oh I agree with you 100% here. If you can get a device that overlaps several markets then you'd want that device to dominate all of them.

Sony want the PSP to compete with the iPod and portable DVD players. These other devices are cheaper than a PSP, but the convergence aspect will appeal to a lot of people.

Convergence is coming, Nokia has the largest share of the digital camera market and they don't sell digital cameras!

In my opinion, the best analogy for the two is that of two different movies sharing the same box office. Such as Legally Blonde 2 and Sin City. They are in somewhat direct competition for overall movie viewing, but do indeed appeal to different audiences. (prob. a better example would be two movies in the same general genre such as Bad Boys 2 and I Robot, but I used the extreme example to get the idea across).

However, I feel that you guys have strayed from the point enough to confirm it. Sony was writing off the DS as being not a "treat" or "competition". This is just completely not true. Its like saying that, in the example of Bad Boys 2 and I Robot, 80% of the people rated action very highly(games), another 60% enjoyed a good amount of comedy in their movies(versatility), and another 10% preferred their movies to have more action and suspense with minimal interference like comedy(price).
These are in no way a accurate representation of the gaming demographic's wants. However, I feel that it shows how it would be stupid for Bad Boys 2 to write off I Robot as not appealing to the same market or even more so, not even being in competition with. His statement about Nintendo only capturing the pokemon audience is like Bad Boys 2 saying only those that like movies with action and only action are in direct competition with them; leaving out the most important determining factors.

Overall I agree with the idea that he actually meant, "The idea of a handheld rivalry with Nintendo is an irrelevance." But I also conclude that that is 100% wrong.

My logic is as follows:
1. appeal of games+movies+music > just games.
2. added features and versatility+third party games+better graphics >= almost only first party games+price
3. Nintendo DS's sales > PSP's sales
Conclusion = high quality games are the primary determining factor in the purchase of a system capable of portable gaming. The PSP is more appealing in every category but games, and yet is losing the battle. Therefore the PSP's primary competition(aka "rivalry") is that of the DS's games.

Just my two cents.

I liked your last respons Tyrion, hopefully I'll warrent one =P.

I like this analogy better than wanderingsoul 's PC/Mac comparison. Yours gets across the limited market idea we need. However (and here I go again) I still think it misses something.

Try this one;

Art house cinema verses Multiplex. The art house cinema is very focused on what it shows, it has a very dedicated following, but little "mass market" appeal. The Multiplex shows a wider spread of film types and appeals to a larger market. Both "compete" for the same limited pool of money available to people who want to see a film, but they have different offerings, one focused the other broad.

This gets across my ideas on what the Sony guy was trying to say, but also keeps in mind the limited pot of money.


This is just a re-telling of the stereotypical Nintendo audience: people who like "kiddy" games.

Please Note: I don't agree with this, but I think that's where he's coming from. He's using this example to enforce the "different markets" hence "no competition" idea.


I'd argue 100%, I think it's about 60% wrong, i.e. 60% of the potential market for PSP crosses over with the market for DS in wanting a games machine only. The other 40% is filled with tech whores, mobile movie people, music people who don't want an iPod and the convergence crowd.


I think we are also seeing a cultural thing here.

Japanese people love the DS for quirky games and Nintendo loyalty. The PSP isn't such a good offering at the moment. The fact that the DS is outselling everything else combined in hardware sales is off the scale.

Americans have a stronger Nintendo loyalty than the UK in general. Again, not too many games for the PSP that ring their bells. OTOH decent sales of UMD movies points to a widening market.

Europe is a wild card, we have no massive loyalty in general, but have been a big Sony stronghold recently. Maybe this is due to the games and the PSP will launch flat, but maybe not.

The lack of games is a worry on both systems. However I believe it is just the post-launch dip that most platforms experience. The DS, having launched earlier, is climbing out earlier. Having GBA back-compat hasn't hurt either.

I think it will be fun to see what happens after another year. See where we are then. I think the PSP will claw back some share, but will it be enough to satisfy Sony and allow them to continue the line?


Eeek! Hope I lived up to it! :-)

Phil Harrison is a little bit.. well.. he said all that to spur responses, but I have never thought of the PSP as a gaming handheld or competition. It's more of a dust collection tool right now... There's quite a bit of games I have to play for my DS.. and I haven't bought a Movie UMD in a loooooooong time.

But I disagree with his assumption that Nintendo is stepping out of the technical race.

I guess he didn't notice the subversive forward steps in the Game Boy Micro. The Micro has three intentions.

1. Set a precedent where the next Game Boy will have a metal chassis and similar customization options.

2. Wean people off of the old GB/GBC games in an attempt to allow greater progress in the successors CPU without the design issue of including the older CPUs.

3. Reset the sizes, so the next Game Boy just needs to have a larger screen than the Micro. In fact, the new Game Boy will have a different shaped screen than the DS, that won't really be "bigger." It will be hella sharp though.. o_O

Nintendo has already announced the screen resolution for the next Game Boy as far back as 2002, and it looks like their recent dealings with ARM means the ARM11e will be part of the new unit. (The DS uses an ARM9e. The ARM11e is a more capable chip. Right now it looks like a 64-bit ARM11e with an additional GPU for the next unit... Which would pretty much outclass the single use 32-Bit MIPS M5000 in the PSP. The PSP has two of those, but only one at a time can be used. One for games, one for multi-media.)

Nintendo is still in the technical race, but it's nice that Sony does not notice the quiet rumblings in the background. Makes it a lot easier.

I feel we are somewhat on the same page, tyrion. And I concede to your wisdom on the matter.

One thing about the 100% wrong thing. I was stating that Mr. Harrison's statement as a whole is wrong. I agreed to some extent that about 80% of the market between the PSP and the DS are shared (that was my prob. confusingly worded 80, 60, 20 attraction part).

However, your 60/40 idea might be more in line when you factor in just the general versatility of the PSP. In that same train of though, supposedly as you know the DS is supposed to get some added versatility in the whole pda arena. But that is of course yet to be seen, and I'm starting to get off topic.

As a final thought, in a year or more likely in a year and a half, its very possible we'll be in an entirely different situation with the impending launch of the Game Boy 2. Or at least I believe that is the general idea. Now how this will shape the portable gaming arena is only speculation, but it will have at least a heavily defining effect.

Tyrion Wrote

You, as Spong, never cease to please =P. (yeah, that was kinda shameless, heh.)

Ah, Mr Harrison. His fighting stance is very Tybalt for he clearly has no love lost for any Romeo (Nintendo or MS).

There's a distinct lack of respect for the enemy at play here which is a shame. I remember things used to be less cut throat back in the 16bit days.

Indeed no matter what they tell us. PSP and DS are both handheld consoles and both with battle for our attention and money, whether with or without intent against the other.

I notice he mentioned some crap about Pokemon when Pokemon hasn't even reached the DS itself yet. Nintendo havet even needed to push Pokemon onto DS so fast because the likes of Daigasso Band Bros, Electroplankton, Trauma Center, Nintendogs and more recently Jump Superstars are doing the business for Nintendo. Famitsu and word of mouth will do the rest

I find them broadening the market (kind of like MS want to do but perhaps different too) to non gamers is a good idea. The female aspect is good for gaming (once I get my Nintendogs I'll be testing it out on the females just to see how they respond).

Lastly, what has happened to the DS release list in the releases section Spong? Surely there's more planned and that needs an update. I'm sure if you cover all three regions in it (since some games won't reach us) you'd get a better DS picture.

Tyrion, you have to realize that nearly every analogy is flawed because it is a comparison between to unlike things, therefore any comparison will most likely be flawed in one way or another. With analogies we are speaking in terms of generality, not specifics. I mean, I could use the music industry as an analogy to the DS vs. PSP. On one hand you could say that Rap appeals to urban youth while adult contemporary appeals to adults. They aren't exactly in direct competition with each other, but specific artists vie for the top spot on the Top 40 charts, but even that analogy is flawed through internet piracy among others. Even saying the operation of a computer presents and interesting analogy to the working of the brain is flawed because it has been proven that a human mind functions quite differently than a computer's CPU. Nearly every analogy is innacurate in some respect because it is what it is, a comparison of things that are alike in some respects but are otherwise dissimilar.

post deleted due to being a drunken misreading of repied to post

Oh yeah, I agree with you here. There analogies that are "better" than others though. A better analogy will get your point across without having to educate your audience on the topic at hand. If you come up with a bad analogy it can damage your argument.

The good thing about discussion boards like these forums is that we can come to a consensus on what is a good analogy, taking an initial idea and expanding on it or just starting from scratch. It's all part of a healthy debate.

Oh come on! You can't delete it entirely, just edit it to say you were drunk and have had second thoughts or something! :-)

OK, I'm replying to myself, but I've just found better figures that the ones I estimated up in my post above.


OK, recent figures from Sony via Tom's Hardware Guide.





I've also seen figures posted on the BBC that say five million PSPs have been sold in JP and US.



OK, so with those figures, we have 5,000,000 sold in 15 months (9 in Japan, 6 in the USA) - an average of 333333 units per month or seven per minute - one every 8.5 seconds. Dunno how that compares to other consoles, but there are the often used figures for you guys to mull over.

Add to that an attach rate of 1.8 for games and 1.64 for movies. Assuming the license Sony gets for a movie is similar to that for a game, this is equivalent to another console having an attach rate of 3.44 - not too shabby.

OK, there are the figures for the PSP, I don't have any definite figures for the DS, so I'll leave that to others.