Forza - New info and a release date

i, persoanly, don't enjoy overly realistic games. if there is somethign less fun than trying to run a tricked out civic around a hair pin turn at a whoping 95 mph and then bashing into a wall i dont know about it.
BUT
being as i think sony has gotten way to cocky after the PS1 and the ps2 has been a bit of a crap fest in general the prospect of M$ trumping them real bad on this gives me a bit fo a rise.

MY GIANT EVIL CORPORATION IS BETTER THAN YOURS DAMNIT!! : )

And, like, Microsoft aren't in the slightest bit cocky? I am completely at a loss at your logic. Rooting for Nintendo would make much more sense

Looking at how cocky the develop team for the Gran turismo series has gotten I would like to see Forza do a little stomping.

i hate this board... i wrote out 3 paragraphs of reply and then it showed as a double post.. so i deleted one.. and now they are both gone... so to summerize...

xbox = quality
ps2 = crappy over priced over hyped crap
metal gear < splinter cell
FF's < KOTOR and probably jade empire (and i liek fable but i know thats a mixed bag)
gta <<<<<<< HALO
and for the sony fans... the better xbox does the more scared sony becomes and the better the next sytem will be... the reason the ps2 sux so bad is cause they trounced the last genration so hard they knew people would buy any old crap on name alone... and sadly they where right. you want a good ps3... buy an xbox : ) it all makes sense

HA! Xbox is a bunch of PC components shoe-horned into an oversized formfactor. Things don't get much cheaper than that!


You know, I never realised that Sony was solely responsible for the creation of games for the PS2 - that really is one fantastic company.


Of course Xbox is better. Xbox came after PS2 so had something to beat. If were a match or worse, Microsoft would have been the laughing stock of the industry. It's very easy to make something better when you have a yardstick with which to measure your offering.


You have the US government to thank for the strength of today's Japanese corporations.


Man, you have completely lost the plot. How on earth can you compare Halo and GTA. They're completely different beasts. IMO, GTA is a much better game, even if it is written by a bunch of Jocks ;) You can play it any which way you like. It's rammed with a massive number of mini-games, all of which are well realised and in some cases better than stand-alone games of the same genre. It also has a bazillion years more replay value than Halo.

this is why i didn't want to try and edit down my orignal lengthy post but i was anoyed at havign to type it out twice already... anway here we go...


yes they are different but ps2 doesnt really have an FPS that compaires to halo and xbox while it get gta a year after the fact doesnt realy have anythign like gta.. i compared them cause they are the biggest games for their respective systems. and the story and cinematic quality of halo if way better than gta and as far as replay value i know people.. myself included who to this day play the multiplayer part of halo... i dont however know anyoen who still plays gta vice city let alon GTAIII.

oh and on a slightly related note your comment about gta being made by a bunch of jocks is amazingly aprapo... i always liek video games for being able to do things i would never be able to do like fight a dragon or go to space or even travel through pipes to world ruled by dinosaurs and fight them with mushrooms... making a game with crappy controls $hitty physics decent graphics and a good sound track where all you do is drive over pedestrians and avoid the cops or hope out of your car and try in vain to shoot your perues is nto groud breaking its obvious and old... in fact.. its alot like gta1&2 which not many peopel played... cause it was fun but not real enough to last.. and of course back then games where still less main stream then they are now. when i saw the ea charters dancing to out cast usic on mtv i new we had reached the begging of the end. and we all have a little game called gta for doing such a good job drawing in all the @$$ holes, used to be i coudl play a game online with other nerds and have a good time... now i got 16 year old morons on xbox live talking about how drunk they got at the party last night and degradign women and calling everyone else gay... all hail R* destoyers of art and proveiors of mindless crap!

now please excues me while i go kill a hooker and steal her money...

__

Still doesn't make it a valid comparison.



GTA wasn't ever meant revolve around an intricately crafted narrative. The narrative in GTA is purely a mechanism for setting up missions - it's not there to elicit some sort of emotional response. Another example that comparing the two is pointless.



Well, you do now.



Blah blah blah. Spoken like a true fan boy who, it would seem, has never really played the game.



You know, you're right!. So few people played GTA1 that Rockstar took the decision to release a mission pack (GTA London) and GTA2. They even bet their houses on moving the series to 3D




Yeah, games were truly niche in 1997. Right.



OMG!!! Rockstar are wholy responsible to erosion of morality and the degradation of our society.

Funny, when I was a kid, long before Rockstar, Take2 or even DMA exists, we used to get drunk, cuss and consider women to be purely objects of sex. Of course, we didn't have Live over which to converse. We had to gather on street corners in an (unintentionally) intimidating manner. Thank God for Microsoft and their wondrous Xbox Live!

You can't delete your posts on this forum, you can only edit them.

as a point of refference for the type of game that dffines the type of peopel that play the thing i think they are both representative.


ok soooo, they didnt really intend for there to be any kind of worth while story, wherent concerned with eliciting any sort of emotioanl repsonse and basically just wanted to string together a bunch of reptive missions thats they tried sooo hard to come up with. "folow the money truck and pick up the money falling out... ok now follow the pron truck and pick up the pron falling out... gripping stuff! the sand box world they have created is sooo awsome... i just ran over the same guy 37 times in two blocks! and three of the same car justd rove past me right ina row.. go ps2 you trully are mind blowing!
and way to dodge my point, no mention of the quality of the controls of the game, you just give them a free pass on that... you want a game where there are a bunch of missions with a silly story thrown in just to kinda move it along... try monkey bal... now there is a game with good controls and mini games that are just as good as some full games... YES I REALIZE THE TWO GAMES ARE DIFFERENT... that doesnt mean gta can just go sucking all over the place cause there arent any other games liek gta.





maybe you shoudl get a job so you can buy somethign new or atleast pick up the strategy guide so you can finally beat it with your mad skillz!



man i played that game for hours, i won't lie its entertaining to kill peopel and dodge the cops and runa few missions and kill people... and uh... kill people... but not two years after the fact... i never had any drive to beat it cause most of the missiosn where just anoyingly frustrating due to the shabby aiming system and way to loose car physics... usually in an unrealistic driving game they make cars drive better to make it easier.. not the other wy around... try ridge racer for example... you own an xbox? play halo?



it did well... as a pc game... and fairly well on the play station... as for moving ti to 3d... thats not exactly beting the farm when developing for a "next gen system"... i dont knwo if you have notice since you still play vice city so much, but most games these days... are indeed... IN 3D (take a look at mario 64, circa 1996, for refference of how to make a came control well in 3d)




nobody said niche... nich is like... mau jong games... thats a niche... games where less cool... less aceptable... i was still in high schol in 97 and i knew a decent number of peopel that played video games... my little brother is in middle school right now and he knwos TONS of kids who do... they wouldn't have sold over 65 million ps2's if there wheren't a few more @$$ holes playign now than there where 7 freakin years ago.



geez maybe you just can't read, poor guy. i said destroyers of art and proveiors of crap... not dgenerate scum... mario bros3(our world depending on who you ask, maybe even super metroid) is the citizen cane of game design(peak of classic quality gaming)... halo is like star wars(big summer block buster)... and gta is like lets say... white chics (ok sure its kinda funny, interesting idea... "zanny antics"... but lacking in any kind of real substance whatsoever... just a week story intended to string together a bunch of obvious jokes and pop culture refferences.



yes yes i know... i play on live and talke to you peopel on hear so im a lifeless looser... no matter what i bother sayign about my self your still going to think im a lifless looser so... you go back out to your street corner and intimidate women with your awsomeness. me and my girl friend and all my other friends will continue to play our 16 player lan games of halo. oh and for refference sake i think running over video game hooekrs is funny and am drunk more night of the week than i care to admit but even blastered i can tell the difference between good game design and control and a weak target lock that targets the gy 50 feet away from me cause he was closer to my reticule than the guy 2 feet to the side of e shooting me.

im not blaming video game for societies ills dip stick, but way to take the automatic deffensive... i'm blaming rockstar( in part) for the reduction in quality necesary to sell a video game... we where finaly gettign to a point where weak developers who continualy put out crap where struggling... even recently acclaim finaly started to realy go down the crapper... as well they should. but then rock star comes along and makes the "game" where you can do all these cool thing (i.e. screw hooker, kill hooker, take money back from hoker) and millions of more peopl by ps2 than any other system ever (unless we count every gameboyX ever sold) and now there are so many peopel willing to buy any extreme sprts nonsence they can get there hands on (dont get me wrong tony hawk and ssx are fantastic, although gettign a bit long int th tooth in my opinion) and any silly ultra violent crap no matter how badly it plays. you want more examples... why dont you look at EVERY OTHER game rockstar has put out (published) since GTA hit... you want a niche... how bout poorly made badly controlling overly violent(do keep your attention of how bad the game sux) "Edgy in my face gaming". that is a niche.

oh yeah... uh forza forza forza... just to keep on topic

god you must jsut bitch about everything... after i single posted and the page refreshed... it showed two sepreat posts for some reason... chalk it up to I.E. sucking if you like... so i het the edit buttona nd delted it down to somthing like "oops, double post, my bad"

then when i entered that it was the only post and the other post was gone... so my whole huge long orignal post was deleted... there now maybe you can sleep at night

dik

ohhhhh it's FUNNY!!!

see, even the guys at ign can understand my big ideas... maybe they troll these boards looking for ideas :P

snoogans!
___

except that ign is pitting the titles against each other on sales and not one being a better game than the other

so they dont understand your ideas and arent interested in your posts

as for the ign story its rubbish

"If I was a betting man, I'd bet that GTA: SA will, by year's end, out-sell Halo 2"

thats brave

then they extend that with "both games will break sales records for their respective systems this fall"

wow theyre really treading on risky ground here!!!

it caps it with "And in the end, I suspect Halo 2 will actually push more hardware sales than GTA: SA does for PS2."

not a difficult prediction when there are many less people with xboxes than ps2s which means theres a much bigger market for selling new xboxes

if this ign writer was a betting man he wouldnt be able to cover the cost of the car ride to the bookies with his winnings ... the horses hes backing are all the favourites

if he was to look at the joint release of gta and the new ps2 he will see a different picture... unless microsoft drop the price of the xbox for the 100th time since release :D

Nope, I just figured it was user error. The controls are just fine. I haven't read a single review of any of the GTA3+ games that level any criticisms at the controls.



LOL
There are plenty of developers how have tried to "out do" GTA since GTA3 was released. Here. Off the top of my head I can think of True Crime, Driv3r and The Getaway. Possibly even Mafia, Roadkill and Simsons Hit & Run. IMO all of them varied between terrible and boring after just a few hours of play. None of them managed to capture the humour, ambience, gameplay and varied, expansive, well-designed environments of GTA.

This is why GTA3 sold by the truck-load, solidly, for about six months. GTA:VC performed similarly. In these cases, selling power completely deflates one person's tirade against the game.

Do you see me incessantly writing "Halo is s**t. Halo 2 is going to be s**t"? No. Because, even if I hated Halo (which I don't), I realise that a game so widely loved and so massively successful means I would be utterly wrong.



Strat guides are for lamers and losers. As for a job and playing something new, I have a pretty good one, thanks. I get to play games if I like, often before they're available in store. I also have a life, which means I don't get to play games much outside of the office. If I personally don't get to play a particular game in the office, I can always watch one of the other guys playing its and decide if it's worth my time.



Two things here. Firstly, you clearly haven't played the game for very long at all, as the killing people and cop chases are often incidental. They're their if you that kind of thing floats your boat, along with the hooker trick. Free roaming exploration is more my bag, something FPS (with or without convoluted storylines) don't really offer. However, first person shooters do offer repeatedly killing loads of people (or aliens/zombies/demons), or being chased by people (or aliens/zombies/demons).

Secondly, I never once wrote that I've played nothing but GTA:VC (or GTA3) since its release. It's obvious you aren't reading what I write - you're just picking at a few words, getting the red mist and going off on a rant, assuming all sorts of s**t. I apologise if my posts vex you so. Please write PIM on your forehead so people around you are forewarned against your volatile nature.



Again, user error.



S**t. I really cannot be arsed with you. You are truly a blinkered waste of space/time/energy.

Ba-bye. *plonk*

ok aprently you missed the point of that my fault for being arogant rather than explanitory... i just thought i twas amusign that i was comparing GTA and Halo just yesterday and was told that i was basically retarded for doing so. and then the next day someone writes an article (all be it a ratehr empty and unintresting one) comparing halo and GTA cause they are the top sellers for their respective systems.

pardon the confusion

ok so the people who reviewed it liek it as much as you, they must be right.

my best frind owns the game and loves it dearly (both of them) i have spent many hours playing it even though there are other things i woudl rather spend my time on. i have beaten several levels that he could not because i am good at it. its not a user error. i understand why someoen woudl enjoy this game so much but i am not that engrossed by the things that i can do that it keeps me from lookign at the thigns i cant. the strategy guide was ment as a jab at your lack of ability to beat a game that is two years old and doesnt IMO provide reason enough to still be playing it to this day, but again IMO. oh what a beast this thread has become. GTA is not a bad game... far from it... but it isnt that good of a game either.. there is plenty missing from it.. in fact enough missing that they manged to come out with a full (sort of) sequel just a year after the first one hit... and now two years later another with even more of the missing parts put in. it almost to me seems liek planned obsolesence... but thats speculation and conspiracy theory on my part. I will admit that san andreas is looking increasingly impressive consider the size and scop and amount of features added... hell you can even get in water and not die now (i think). but i still think that there could be so much more to it. like a decent fight sytem when on foot(actually i thnk they are doing that in this one casue they are smart enough to know it was sorley lacking in the first two)... why cant i just aim with the right stick? why cant i manage a punch and a kick button(same as above)? maybe if im in a back alley and get in a fight with one guy i coudl have a more detailed hand to hand sytem... oh and going in everybuilding... that would be cool... a bit munch to ask i realize... but A LOT more imersive. there are so many things that could make the game better... but i admit there are plenty of things it has done right, just not enough for me to hail it like this great and wonderous thing that everyone else seems to think it is. and honestly being better than driver and true crimes isnt really much of an acomplishment (i hope everyoen can agree those two games basically bit @$$) sadly the simpsons is probably the best "GTA clone" anyone has made. which is very telling to me... look how easily some developers with a simpson game recreated basically all fo the functionality of GTA and then just made up some different missions. as for the sales the fact that halo2 will sell even half what san andreas does is amazing consider there are only about a 3rd as many total xboxs in the world.

and i would just liek to reiterate, this is not a user error... i never said i coudlnt beet the game im quit good at it but its not worth powerign through... if it had soem kind of engaing story i woudl be willing to suffer through iffy controls to find otu what happens but tomy vercettis less than dramatic rise to the top just didnt do it for ME. and the levels (missions) arent well designed enough to intrigue ME. and as for "Free roaming exploration" finding the magical 100 packages around has to be the most mind numbing and unexciting extra anyone has ever done... its liek a bad platform game all fo a sudden... banjo kazooie you gotta go find a billion feathers to make a golden chicken.. its lame its week and its a sad attempt to add depth.. any other game woudl be reemed for throwing in week "fetch quests" to try and add staying power, but for soem reaosn this game gets a pass. These arent incredibly intresting or orignal quest.. chase the guy on the boat... do a drive by... i was impressed when i had to throw the grenade through the gusy window(a sad excus for a high point but an interesting change from all the non open windows in the game), that was a suprising switch but most of them are very similar cause there realy arent that many differen things to be done. IMO.

any way, being as democratic as possible, everyone who likes gta, hope you enjoy the new one, im glad you get your moneys worth and have somethign you enjoy, i dont, and in my opinion in the grand scheme of things its a turn in the wrong direction for video games as an industry on the whole. no one is going to convince me other wise and i doubt im goign to convince many peopl of my opinions. this is after all, a forum for discussion of ideas.

ps: and just so you know the reaosn for not copying your text exactly again was that i am at work and the firewall here makes some weird $hit go on when relaoding webpages and its way more of a hassle than it should be... and if anyone besides the two of us cared enough they coudl scroll up and find it.

one final thing...
no reviewer complained about the aiming... but plenty of real people did after the fact, im in the minority but im nto alone.

hope everyone has enjoyed reading us two stuborn @$$es argue. i feel ive explained my stance as well as i could without havign to find a publisher :)

peace

GTA IS THE BEST GAME IN THE HISTORY OF VIDEO GAMING!

Oh that was fun to say. Here I am. Lupos' (best?) friend who "adores" GTA. I don't think he has any other friends who defend GTA as much as I did (do?).

What I think Lupos is trying to say is that GTA is overrated, or the two previous installments were. And also he had a hard time differentiating his personal opinion from commentating (and has a hard time pooing). What I agree with him on is that, and this is a tricky subject to talk about because of the peroid the game came out and of how much importance it has on the game, is the aiming, the odd camera controls, the lack of NPC diversity, AI walk paths, the bad car physics, etc.

Now let me first say that GTA was and still is a fine game. But games degrade over time. Herzog Zwei can't hold a candle to any RTS anymore, but it was the first and we commend them on that. We try not to say it was overrated and it should of had certain features, and that the unit path detection code is horrible. It's all too common for fans to bitch about stuff that still sells well two or three years after it comes out just because they hate it. Lupos here hates GTA so he brings up the argument that GTA is an unfinished game. They had a hard enough time making it as good as it was. Just because things disappear if you turn a corner or that there's only 20 character models or that you can't swim. All things which have now been resolved in San Andrea.
GTA (III I'm speaking of here) was a damn fine game. Sure it had some problems, but we overlook them because flying off a ten foot ramp with a oil tanker into Luigi's restaurant killing a whole lot of pedestrians was soooo f**king awesome. It's the fun factor that makes a game good. Not awesome graphics (look at Kakuto Chojin), not rude humor and nakedness (look at BMX XXX), but a solid, fun game. Running over hookers, stealing cars, shooting innocent pedestrians, it all worked together sooo well. I think if Rockstar "finished" the game as Lupos would have liked, he still would hate the game. He doesn't like the whole underlying premise of a do anything, go anywhere world. If he's gonna go race, he'll play Burnout 3, if he's gonna go shoot, he'll play Halo, if he's gonna go swim, he'll play Athens 2004(?!). He wants every aspect to be spot on. And well that just can't happens. It's very difficult to make a game like this work well. Look at every game that came out after (Driv3r, True Crime, Roadkill, etc...). So those games are a testament to how good GTA was and still is if they can't make a game that is as fun to play as GTA.

If you want a game that Lupos thinks is good (in the same vein as GTA), look at Fable. That flaming piece of crap does actually have a solid, if mostly repetitive and boring, fighting engine. I mean all you usually do every fight is use magic to support your fighting style(be it melee or ranged), hold the lock on button, and jam the attack button. But the thing is, as boring and repetitive as it is, it is still solid. GTA at it's base is solid. What both games falter on is all the cool extra stuff there is. The farther you get from the core of each game, the more the ideas don't seem to work so well. But usually their fun and original enough for us to forgive them.

I hope I've shedded some light on the subject.

ATTENTION: Lupos has never played Knights of the Old Republic more than 5 minutes. Or even a Final Fantasy game more than five minutes. He doesn't like playing either game and therefore not a good judge of either game. Knights was a fine game, but I feel very overrated. That's for another thread. The Final Fantasy games much better...