GTA IV Car Psychologist: My Job is Difficult

People are resistant to the 'truth' that video games do harm

Posted by Staff
Professor Dill
Professor Dill
Speaking in a recent podcast, Karen Dill (Associate Professor of Psychology at Lenoir-Rhyne College) after whom the Karin Dillettante car in GTA IV was apparently named, talked about how difficult it is to be a 'media psychologist' when people refuse to accept what you say is true. She was speaking with Craig Anderson, Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Iowa State University.

According to Dill and Anderson people who defend video games have their own agendas to protect and are not aware of the 'overriding thing' that means they (we) can't see the truth.

Before we go on, let's have a quick peek at Lenoir-Ryhne College's mission statements... just to show that we've been paying attention.

So, firstly, here's some of what Anderson has to say:

"As an institution of the North Carolina Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the College holds the conviction that wholeness of personality, true vocation, and the most useful service to God and the world are best discerned from the perspective of Christian faith."


Okay, so now we know what we're dealing with in terms of objective scientific, no previous agenda, research and findings.

So, here are a few of the gems from the podcast:

"The media industry themselves, of course, have a huge profit motive, and that certainly plays a big role in their attempts to discredit the research."


Fair enough... we will put this to the industry, who will tell us that they don't comment on that kind of thing.

But now on to the classic 'false consciousness' argument: Dill points out that, "First of all, people in general don’t like to believe they can be affected by anything, especially anything as trivial as TV shows, or movies, or video games."

Really? That's why we never cover our eyes at syringes/zombies/Adam Sandler movies? Tell us more...

"So there’s just a general resistance to belief that we’re being affected by outside forces."

A general resistance? Everybody but 'media psychologists' knows the truth. Is there more we can be patronised with?


"Then I guess there’s one other sort of overriding thing that influences parents as well as people in the media industries, the people who create violent games or violent media, people who distribute them and sell them, and it’s actually a kind of cognitive dissonance kind of thing. You know, most people think of themselves and they think, “I’m a good person, I don’t do things to harm children,” yet they’re producing these violent games, or they’re selling them or renting them to kids."

And 'overriding thing' - she's just getting technical on us now. How are we supposed to understand complicated and insightful terminology such as 'overriding thing'?

There must be more?

"So there’s this other sort of cognition floating around of 'gee, if it’s true that these things are harmful, then I’ve harmed children, and that’s very, very uncomfortable. The easy way out of that discomfort is to decide that the research is wrong and that there aren’t harmful effects, and I’m still a good person even though I’m selling these bloody things to children all the time."

A 'sort of cognition floating around', we wish we'd studied harder now.

Dill is all behind Anderson on this saying, "Yeah, absolutely. And that makes our jobs, as media psychologists, difficult, and I want to talk about that more a little bit later. I’m sure you and I have both sat in audiences with teenage boys glaring at us, not enjoying our talks in any way."

Their jobs as media psychologists are made difficult? By people not agreeing with findings? Seriously readers, it's time you grew up and made the academics' lives easier by bloody well nodding your head.

So, how do we solve this? It's easy according to Anderson. With tonnes of research to back up the solution too. "So I guess that’s my parting advice: more reading, less screen time, and what screen time they have should be carefully monitored and controlled by the parents."

We'd suggest you start reading American Psycho, Of Mice and Men, Brighton Rock and Titus Andronicus to the kids immediately.

You can read more self-serving tosh right here.

Comments

deleted 11 Jun 2008 17:12
1/14
How does this discredit games?

and why have you spong took a very skeptic look at it shouldnt you really be unbias or are you really like other media outlets?

arent you just prooving what they say?

it sounds like a common sense talking about what they have found, and they simply are saying that this evidence that may or may not of been found is immediatly ignored or attempts made to disproove it because it

1. Affects Business and Business doesnt want that.
and
2. takes away out personal guilty conscience if the information were to be true

you know spong i like to believe the games industry has morals and isnt selfish but in reality it isnt that simple and what gets me is how you expect everyone to believe what you say "self tosh" is right and that spongs information is somehow more correct than theirs?

the author of this article is very cynical and its like i was reading a fox article with some sort of agenda into making the reader immediatly believe what the author wants!

and the stupid comment at the bottom with the suggestion of books to read to the kids, jebuss whats wrong with kids having less screen time and more reading time with a wealth of written language and storys and history i can safely say i enjoy reading far more than video games!

to mis quote stephen fry

" i can imagine a modern day without Internet, without Cars or Video games, but i cannot imagine a modern day without the written language"

the world wont stop if the nintendo is turned off.

[EDIT] You just prooved how hard her job is!
Joji 11 Jun 2008 20:17
2/14
Media psychos, eh. She's hailing from a church based organisation, so her view is already branded by the crucifix of the church of righteous justice. She's said as much when she claims violent games are being sold to kids, deleberately, when the truth is very different.

She's missed the part about once copies are sold to retailers, they have no control over how the games are sold. While moaning minnies like her have ranted about this part, how easily that forget that games are rated, and kids in general are always growing and maturing.

She's probably a buddy agent of JT, anyway. Its always about protecting the children apparently, but its okay to teach kids discrimiatioon against homosexuals etc in the church.

Sure, kids can switch off consoles sometimes, and in a perfect world, they would more. Our 21st century world has other things to do, all of subjective to choice in the end. If said kids went and done drugs instead, who would they blame then?

Like the saying says, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

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russ 11 Jun 2008 22:54
3/14
Adults shouldn't be affected by games. I will accept that children and teenagers may be succeptable to negative influence from games....And this is the argument it always boils down to for me - KIDS SHOULDNT BE PLAYING AGE INNAPROPRIATE GAMES!
Earl 12 Jun 2008 11:14
4/14
"As an institution of the North Carolina Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the College holds the conviction that wholeness of personality, true vocation, and the most useful service to God and the world are best discerned from the perspective of Christian faith."

No need to read further is there to be honest.
mrben43 12 Jun 2008 11:22
5/14
Come on Spong, I'm getting a bit tired of your constant mockery of anyone who even begins to suggest that videogames can have a negative effect. This is not objective journalism.
TimSpong 12 Jun 2008 11:38
6/14
haritori wrote:
How does this discredit games?


It doesn't.

haritori wrote:
and why have you spong took a very skeptic look at it shouldnt you really be unbias or are you really like other media outlets?


Claiming that the vg industry has an agenda (which we agreed) while apparently not declaring an interest in your own agenda (we need to ensure that our media psychologist roles are given importance by the terror of video gaming) is downright bad.

Combining that with some cod-science - 'the only reasons they don't agree with us is because they can't see the error of their ways' - compounds the problem.

haritori wrote:
arent you just prooving what they say?


No. Our ongoing coverage of Tanya Byron's review and the upcoming review of our own on the book Grand Theft Childhood, combined with our generally sceptical take on the entire industry gives us an ability to look just as squarely at this kind of mendacity.

haritori wrote:
it sounds like a common sense talking about what they have found...


Common sense also said that plague and disease are carried in miasma. Driving on the left won't get you killed and that Kings have a divine right.

These people are there to talk 'common sense' - they are there to provide objective analysis.

haritori wrote:
you know spong i like to believe the games industry has morals and isnt selfish but in reality it isnt that simple and what gets me is how you expect everyone to believe what you say "self tosh" is right and that spongs information is somehow more correct than theirs?


I have never, ever stated that in a piece like this I 'expect everyone to believe what you say'. On more than one occasion I've said I welcome debate. I've also quite happily backed down. I, however, am not in a position to influence a parent in the medical and psychological health of their children. It is, however, my responsibility - if I feel my opinion is valid - to make that heard.

It's your responsibility to disagree with that if you feel you have to.

haritori wrote:
the author of this article is very cynical and its like i was reading a fox article with some sort of agenda into making the reader immediatly believe what the author wants!


It was me. I am that Fox-a-like. Of course I have an agenda that makes me want you to believe me. I'd be a blinking fool if my agenda was to make you not believe me.

haritori wrote:
and the stupid comment at the bottom with the suggestion of books to read to the kids, jebuss whats wrong with kids having less screen time and more reading time with a wealth of written language and storys and history i can safely say i enjoy reading far more than video games!


Nothing at all is wrong with that. I love reading. I read to my own family. However, the notion that 'people turned white when I showed them a video game' but 'people didn't puke when I read them Patrick Batemens' antics' doesn't stack up. There is no discernment. It is blanket demagoguery.

haritori wrote:
[EDIT] You just prooved how hard her job is!


Good - her job SHOULD be hard. So should mine.

Keep the bastards honest I say...

Cheers as ever

Tim
deleted 12 Jun 2008 11:52
7/14
Tim Smith wrote:
haritori wrote:
How does this discredit games?


It doesn't.

haritori wrote:
and why have you spong took a very skeptic look at it shouldnt you really be unbias or are you really like other media outlets?


Claiming that the vg industry has an agenda (which we agreed) while apparently not declaring an interest in your own agenda (we need to ensure that our media psychologist roles are given importance by the terror of video gaming) is downright bad.

Combining that with some cod-science - 'the only reasons they don't agree with us is because they can't see the error of their ways' - compounds the problem.

haritori wrote:
arent you just prooving what they say?


No. Our ongoing coverage of Tanya Byron's review and the upcoming review of our own on the book Grand Theft Childhood, combined with our generally sceptical take on the entire industry gives us an ability to look just as squarely at this kind of mendacity.

haritori wrote:
it sounds like a common sense talking about what they have found...


Common sense also said that plague and disease are carried in miasma. Driving on the left won't get you killed and that Kings have a divine right.

These people are there to talk 'common sense' - they are there to provide objective analysis.

haritori wrote:
you know spong i like to believe the games industry has morals and isnt selfish but in reality it isnt that simple and what gets me is how you expect everyone to believe what you say "self tosh" is right and that spongs information is somehow more correct than theirs?


I have never, ever stated that in a piece like this I 'expect everyone to believe what you say'. On more than one occasion I've said I welcome debate. I've also quite happily backed down. I, however, am not in a position to influence a parent in the medical and psychological health of their children. It is, however, my responsibility - if I feel my opinion is valid - to make that heard.

It's your responsibility to disagree with that if you feel you have to.

haritori wrote:
the author of this article is very cynical and its like i was reading a fox article with some sort of agenda into making the reader immediatly believe what the author wants!


It was me. I am that Fox-a-like. Of course I have an agenda that makes me want you to believe me. I'd be a blinking fool if my agenda was to make you not believe me.

haritori wrote:
and the stupid comment at the bottom with the suggestion of books to read to the kids, jebuss whats wrong with kids having less screen time and more reading time with a wealth of written language and storys and history i can safely say i enjoy reading far more than video games!


Nothing at all is wrong with that. I love reading. I read to my own family. However, the notion that 'people turned white when I showed them a video game' but 'people didn't puke when I read them Patrick Batemens' antics' doesn't stack up. There is no discernment. It is blanket demagoguery.

haritori wrote:
[EDIT] You just prooved how hard her job is!


Good - her job SHOULD be hard. So should mine.

Keep the bastards honest I say...

Cheers as ever

Tim



Fair Play, but what i always see from gaming media is an instant jump to defend gaming`s freedom, now i agree that movies, music and even books can be as bad or worse than video games for violence and parent shocking and i agree gaming has a lot of hardships with instant dismissal of it being childish and constant referals to pong and space invaders from those who dont wish to educate themselfs about `our` world,

what i guess i want to see is the gaming industry including Gamers, Media and Devs all at least open to the possiblity of this (`NEW` in comparison) media could have some effects as it is different than books, movies and music, its interactive and far more immersive, and that there is a possibility it could effect us and until prooved either way we dont know. again this should be equally open that it may not ffect us from the Jack Thompsons of the world, but i think Gamers could be the bigger person.

I for one personally believe there is no effect on gamers or even children but i say that until its prooved i shouldnt judge it either way i should remain open, it would kill me if it was prooved if the freedom was taken away because of effects that could happen but i would understand that and support it.

But i always like the story of Beethoven and i hope gaming becomes the same.

In direct response to you Tim, its nice to get the response from you and its why im here, like you say debate is good and i think i can say this is the only site where this happens.
Horatio 12 Jun 2008 12:01
8/14
haritori wrote:
....prooved.....


It's a great debate and I was pleased to have read it, but for the love of Shakespeare, if you like to read so much, learn to spell! It's PROVED :-) The double-oh you're thinking of is proof :-P

Did that add to the debate ;-)
DoctorDee 12 Jun 2008 14:52
9/14
mrben43 wrote:
Come on Spong, I'm getting a bit tired of your constant mockery of anyone who even begins to suggest that videogames can have a negative effect. This is not objective journalism.

I'm not sure that we do mock anyone who suggests video games can have a negative effect. In fact, I've expressed exactly that opinion here, and quite often.

There has to be a balance between evaluating what that negative effect may be and deciding what the appropriate response should be. Movies, books and music that are just as bleak or violent as any game are routinely sold in the high street - there is no limitation on who can buy what book, or what music. Only movies and games have any meaningful age rating placed upon them and even then the ones relating to games are frequently circumvented by the very parents of the children involved. Can that be right?

And the knee-jerk reaction of many video game antagonists is to propose an outright ban on violent games. But censorship is the enemy of free speech - so there is a dilemma for any liberal or libertarian person in that approach.

We encourage debate, we do not mock anyone who suggest video games may have a negative effect, we acknowledge the probability that they do. It is the reactionary approach of some people to the issue that we mock. Oh, and we do occasionally mock people who believe in invisible magical super-beings who live in the sky, and who tell them how to run their lives.


TimSpong 12 Jun 2008 16:28
10/14
mrben43 wrote:
Come on Spong, I'm getting a bit tired of your constant mockery of anyone who even begins to suggest that videogames can have a negative effect. This is not objective journalism.


I am quite aware that any media can have negative or positive effects. I don't feel that we have to prefix everything with "We are aware that there are two sides to every story" because I don't feel that we have to patronise SPOnG's readership.

All of the following have been blamed for leading civilization into decline:
Comics
Literature
Film
That evil Jazz music
Shakespeare (dear Mr Bowdler)
Photography
Movies
Food
Sex
Going to the football (football causes fighting)
Going to the theatre

All of them can have negative effects. In fact - just to be on the record - "Video Games can have negative effects on people" says Tim Smith managing editor of SPOnG. "But so can reading books", he added.

As for objective journalism there has never and will never be such a thing. Yes, I've said that on the record as well. There is reporting as you see it with as much context as you can provide using the subjectivity that is the mark of the human.

The report here was of two psychologists with their own agendas poking the accusation of agenda-lead 'psychological resistance' (Freud) or 'false consciousness' (Marx) at an industry that must be self-protecting.

It's also an industry that is focused on itself. That is its agenda - to think otherwise is foolish or deliberately disingenuous. If not then the people in it would be working with disabled children or underprivileged old folk. A minority in the industry want to 'do good', some want to 'make cash, cash, cash' and most are 'please do not bother me with all this chat about culture and effects, I am just here to make games'.

The 'psychological resistance' argument is that the only reason you don't agree with me is that you are hiding from the truth. It's a pointless game that reaches no conclusion other than that which keeps these people in work.

To then moan about the fact that having a made-up job (media psychologist) is hard because people don't listen is nonsense.

Some video games can have negative effects on some people. Poverty, lack of education, breakdown of cohesive support networks do have negative effects.

To then say that reading to your children is a good thing without qualifying that with what you are reading to your children is just too pat and too agenda lead to be taken seriously. It is akin to saying that 'feeding your children is good' - of course it is. But constantly feeding them crap is not. There is context.

Given the opportunity I would stand by letting my off-spring play GTA IV with me there (ideally I'd prefer a game that wasn't quite as tedious) as being as good as reading the gospel according to Paul. The effects are contextual and reliant on other environmental and genetic influences. No one influence can be the sole cause of a catastrophic human event.

Finally, in the story we also linked to the podcast transcript for you to be able to make your own conclusions. Had I wanted simply to have shoved over my totally blind pro-game agenda, I would have quoted out of context and not linked.

Phew... I'm puffed out now.

Cheers

Tim

PS: I loved the one where you went to the shop and became a knight in armour. Although the shopkeeper always freaked me out.
OptimusP 13 Jun 2008 13:58
11/14
*gives Tim a big deserved hug*
TimSpong 13 Jun 2008 14:11
12/14
OptimusP wrote:
*gives Tim a big deserved hug*


*Sniff*

Ahem!

I need to find the bit where you 'play' things in Metal Gear Solid 4.

Cheers

Tim
OptimusP 13 Jun 2008 21:17
13/14
Tim Smith wrote:
OptimusP wrote:
*gives Tim a big deserved hug*

I need to find the bit where you 'play' things in Metal Gear Solid 4.

Is it really that bad? Really?

Well a friend of mine, who is a huge MGS-whore and story-whore did say he would give MGS4 a 7/10 because the story is just...it's like Kojima hired Peter Jackson boring storytelling persona part and said to him "right, we have this 100 page story...try making it so it would need a 1000 pages to be told in the game".

That's not a game anymore...
TimSpong 16 Jun 2008 08:28
14/14
OptimusP wrote:
Is it really that bad? Really?

Well, having hammered away at it for a good chunk of the weekend - and not to pre-empt my review too much - I enjoy the whole stealth aspect as ever, and once huge amounts of disbelief are suspended, I can live with some of the mechanics.

OptimusP wrote:
That's not a game anymore...

The cut scenes are... no I'm going to save that for later. Suffice to say that I scripted and acted in student movies when I was... a student. I now write about video games for a living.

More later
Cheers

Tim
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