Transformers Director: Bays for Microsoft Blood

If I were a veteran of the American armed forces, I'd be offended that a company like EA had used the name of the highest possible honour awarded to members of the American military just to market a series of computer games.

I'd certainly be much more offended about that than I would about some limey not spelling or capitalising the name of the medal in the way it should be in an Internet forum.

Not me, I've always felt that EA treated the name with dignity and an appropriate amount of gravitas...it started with just the one game, not a plot to flog an entire series, that came later...a game which, as a gamer, holds a dear place in my heart as the first console FPS worthy of the name.

I was a little miffed when Allied Assault (I think, it was a PC title) never made it to the Xbox, and we got the poor PS2 retread instead. And Rising Sun (retread sequel) had a minidocumentary about the BAR, but it never appeared in the game...which mostly sucked. But they never did anything dishonorable.

The capitalization jab was more triggered by "...proper english..." than anything, but the point stands. Beyond its meaning, its a proper noun, not subject to regional spelling quibbles. Besides, "honour" and the rest aren't really English at all, now are they? The American spellings are more English than anything.

Anyway, one of the ideals the men who earned the Congessional Medal of Honor fought for is* the right of free expression...which on the surface would appear to give him the right to spell it however he wants...however, it also confers upon me the right to tell him hes a w****r for doing so while boasting of his proper English, and living in a country which would have been overrun and conquered by an enemy they created without the valor of the men "Over There".

*expletive deleted* you, you pissant little piece of s**t.

Sitting in traffic (from Arabic 'tafriq') the other day (German or possibly Proto-Indo-European) on the way (Germanic) to a hotel (from old French, 'hostel') I thought this argument (Proto-Indo-European or the old French) about English (from the German 'engle') was okay (poss USA. poss Celtic)...

English comes from all over the bloody world and always has... innit? Kushti.

As for the idea that the Americans (who, via Webster, came up with at least a good first stab at formalising the language*) simply take letters out or put them in because of... generic laziness... what a stupid thing to (badly) write.

'Honor' and 'honour' - for example - were both being used in bloody England in the 16th century. The former coming from the Latin, the latter coming from an old French 'corruption'. So, if anything, the American spelling using the former is more 'English' than the latter; the Roman invasion precursing the Norman by a thousand years.

Our 'greatest' playwright (note, not 'playwrite') couldn't even spell his own name the same way twice.

Finally, while we're on the subject of laziness and language - just nip back over your own post and see if you can spot any pieces of laziness?

Over to you Mr Pot...

Regards, Tim... AKA the Kettle.

P.S. Don't think this makes me an America fanboy... I hate everywhere.... cobber.

* Stop right there - Dr Johnson's dictionary did not try to formalise spelling - it did try to list words.

I'm not going down the "America saved Europe" argument route again, I've had it too many times on the Internet to do it again.

What I will take a quick snipe at is the "proper" English debate.

While it's true that a lot of American English is closer to the English spoken by the British at the time of the Founding Fathers' journey, this doesn't really make it "proper" English. English is a language that from its very first attempts to be understood has evolved and changed.

The fact that a large part of American English has, if you'll excuse the term, stagnated, points out the difference in "style" between the two branches of the language. English has continued to evolve naturally, including words, dropping others and altering the meanings of others.

There is also the fact that American English was consciously changed by several individuals in the dictionary publishing trade in order to actively distance it from the mother tongue, therefore moving the language on in a different direction. The dropping of the u letters from colour and honour come from this process, by the way.

All of this means we actually have two separate, but related, languages, English as spoken in Britain and English as spoken in America.

Logically the "proper" English is the one spoken in England, just as the "proper" French is that spoken in France, not Canada. This is why I have referred to English and American English in this posting. However, due to the influence of Hollywood and American computer firms, the American English language is the one that most people think of as "English" worldwide.

Naturally, British and American people will always claim their language as the "proper" one, but it's a commonly quoted fact that there are more people learning English as a second language in China at the moment than there are people living in the USA, so we may all have to watch out for their inevitable changes to the language!

This really has gone a bit off topic, hasn't it? Umm, Blu-ray FTW, but Perl Harbor (the film) still sucks!

I don't really think its much of an argument. To be perfectly honest, I think America destroyed Europe by getting involved in World War I in the first place...no one should have been allowed to win that most stupid and tragic of conflicts. Had we actually ratified (or been directly responsible for) Versailles (a war crime in and of itself in my opinion), our damnnation would be complete. The way my hindsight sees it, Woodrow Wilson is responsible for more evil than George W. Bush is capable of. I recently found out that relatives of mine (on the German side) fought in World War I for the Allies (this was a surprise, as it had always been assumed that they came over between the wars)...I have very mixed feelings about this...I wouldn't feel conflicted at all, if had found that they had fought for the Kaiser. Perhaps, had the Central Powers triumphed they would have done as bad or worse, but we'll never know...better that no one won, and everyone got sick of fighting and went home. The fact that my ancestor fought honorably in my nations armed services fills me with pride, the likelyhood that he spilled German blood for the benefit of those who would draft that travesty shames me.

As for our American transformation of English...was the motivation for changing the spellings really to distance ourselves? Or was it a more eminently practical reason...like spelling things closer to the way they are pronounced? Or part of the natural evolution of language?

And aren't the real differences merely in the way the languages are written? Not as spoken?

But yes, Pearl Harbor sucked...Bruckheimer should stick to television, I like his TV shows...his movies, not so much

heres a question only a Yank would ask, and perhaps you could answer:

Why "Zed"? Our "Zee" seems to fit in so much better with the rest of the alphabet, as spoken...

i probably shouldve said maybe its my proper english accent or pronounciation, to be precise :) i dont think i say would of, but some phonetic typing may have slipped out, im not sure. feel free to look. as its a forum, i dont really employ full effort when typing into it

and dont start that 'youd be speaking german' b******s, we can all do it - youd be speaking german (maybe mexican) if we hadnt held them off long enough for you to pull your fingers out of your arses and do the right thing :D

From memory, this is more to do with post-Revolutionary sniffiness on the part of 'the Patriots' (aren't they doing well this season?) not wanting to sound too English.

Every other bugger in the world says, "Zed". Some North Americans I know talk about 'catching some zeds'. So, it's just plain contrariness.

Also, why you blokes take your language lead from an NFL franchise that is patchy at the best of times is beyond me. We don't learn our language from Newcastle United... ennit?

Chairs

Tim

You may now lower your 'English Humour' shields.

Maybe Webster was trying a little more phonetic approach. However, in that case, wouldn't 'harbor' be spelled 'harburr' (or maybe around Boston or the Kennedy estate even, 'haaar-burr')?

Might not the Georgian (as in the state not the historical period) spelling of 'down' be "day-un"? And would 'talk' not have been spelled 'tawk' all over the place?

I fink langwidge is eva-lush-n'ree in devel'p'm'nt.

Unless it's Esperanto - but what silly bugger uses that, mate? It's not fair dinkum.

Cheers

Tim

im hazy on early american history, we barely touched upon it at school. so when the founding fathers are referred to, is that all the members of America's first independent government, who also were the ones who wrote up all the original famous legislation etc? werent a good majority of them english? i remember meeting a german chick in a bar once and we had a great conversation about language, i remember her telling me that whoever decided this sort of thing had a vote on what would be the national language of the USA, and english beat german by just one vote or something similarly dramatic. thats another one i could use! youd be speaking german.. blah blah blah

a German chick in a bar, impressive reference...

as far aas I know, America has no official language.

neither does the UK for that matter...in both cases English is only the official language de facto, not de jure, which would appear to contradict that there had been such a vote.

az yoo sed, i beleev hee wuz going for a littul mor phonehtic spelling. kee wurd iz littul, ore hee wud hav dropped the sighlent "k" in nife.

Perhaps such evolutions were an attempt to render English spellings less nonsensical for those who would learn it as a second language, America being the melting pot it was, and would be. That, or he wanted to 'legally' cheat at Scrabble and get the 10 points for using the "Z" more.

i looked into it, apparently its a german myth, haha! now we know NOW WE KNOW. i wonder what else does the rounds over there. had a look at wikipedia, more reliable than a german chick in a bar by a whisker :P

also according to the holy wiki, germans are the second largest ethnic group in america. they get everywhere dont they, ive got some kraut in me too, as do most people in england. oh and apparently they are in the process of passing or reviewing a bill to make english the official language of america.

so were the founding fathers predominately english?

<edit> apparently they were almost all from british colonies, yay for wikipedia! interesting stuff. I might get a book on it, see what my brethren accomplished

That proposed law is a blatant reaction to the influx of illegal Spanish-speaking immigrants. And one I heartily agree with, for my own reasons. The Aztlan movement in America troubles me...Illegals who promote such should be deported with extreme prejudice.

yeah, itd be fine by me too. I find a good portion of immigrants dont even try to intergrate into our society or some just plain cant, and you end up with lots of distrust between communities which is bad for everyone. certainly helps create a good climate for al qaeda to spread their filth, pouring it into communities that feel surrounded, outnumbered and opposed by us honkies because they shut themselves off and it just grows suspicion and barriers

First in response to Bay, I enjoyed Transformers. Definitely one of the best films of 07. Yeah so Jazz was killed, that pales insignificant to the times established Transformers died and were rebuilt in the anime series and books.

How many times did Optimus Prime die and return again? Even though he's the autobot figurehead, even he can't escape death sometimes.

The Blu ray/HD DVD crap from Bay holds some water but also leaks. In truth many are happy with normal dvd and dvd recorders. Downloads will be hampered by the human connection we all need with possessing physical objects, along with borrowing or lending a copy to a friend this is the biggest part of owning something physical, so normal retail games will always sell. Many even Sony, really are underestimating this fact, to create thier Mother Brain image of autonomous control of the game consumer. Sure some dlc will alway be around as standard, but I doubt the day will come when Game, Walmart etc are cut out of the gaming picture for games.

As for the english language side order debate, i've always found it interesting how americans speak american and not english. How quickly they forget their roots, no matter how much they try to deny them. I understand the need to distance themselves from europe to a degree, but you can never shake the roots of history that made you what you are. While other immigrant nationals do their best to keep hold of their roots, its really odd that americans (some not all) shun theirs.

Back in the 17th century or so, when changes were made to develop american english, as part of the school curriculum and such, it may have been seen somewhat rebelious by europeans or others, because in truth these changes were not really needed. English is very nuch a mish mash hybrid language anyway and if it ain't broke don't fix it, right? I think one of the main driving reasons behind such changes, may have been because of the english colonial empire around them. Think of it as more of a declaration of their freedom from the english monarchy and their empire, which was still thriving and expanding through trade etc, at the time.

So, when yanks or non yanks, nip across the borders of mexico or canada today, do they ask the locals 'do you speak american ?' No, because technically speaking there's no american language (unless you count native american tongues), as american is english in all but rebelious name. And as Shakespeare said 'what's in a name'? Names have meaning and do matter sometimes.

As much as for their persecutive reasons of boarding the Mayflower, many decendant americans have only in the end benefited, from the spread of the english language and empire. Canada is the flipside result of what America could have been like under colonial rule, hence the sniping of hate that sometimes prevails between somewhat more cultured Canadians (embracing their roots and dual french/english influences etc) and Americans (some who seem a bit lost, shunning learning languages of their fore fathers like german, dutch and french etc, perhaps under the excuse that they'll not need them). Kudos to the irish, italians, scots etc that do respect their roots. The pot can get hot as far as respect and mutual acceptance for each other goes though, but that happens almost everywhere, its a melting pot that can decend into soomething more..dangerous.

Lastly, i think that if more languages and foreign culture were embraced in america, there'd be less bitching and fear of foreign things, more understanding, listening, sharing and learning. It happening slowly perhaps and not enough, but its a long long road.

OK, first off, I dun care about Prime ...Prime=boring...'sides, HE KEPT COMING BACK...Jazz was the coolest Autobot ever, frigging Bay barely gave him any screentime at all, then offed him without a thought.

The movie was a poorly-written crap fest with some stunning special effects. full stop.

As for multiculturalism in America...you're off your rocker...I can't even begin to explain it to you...

I know where I'm from, the people heartily embrace our German heritage...the older French to a lesser extent...the English not at all, really. (guess I should explain...my hometown was created by melding two settlements, one English, and an older French...named by an Irishman who built his barn on one side of the creek and his house on the other. "It won't be Peterstown, and it won't be Bellefontaine...but begorrah, I'll gives ye yer Waterloo!" Then, a whole lot of Germans came and took over. Since anywhere named after a place the French got their asses kicked can't be that bad.) Actually the biggest cultural divide around here is between the German Catholics and the German Lutherans and other Protestants (mostly UCC, we call it the 'chicken church', on account of the rooster windvane on the top). Pretty much everybody eats fish on Friday though (myself excluded). The local papers motto is even: "Monroe Counties favorite fishwrapper".

What America really needs is to recognize that which is special and unique about our own cultures (lets face it, we're a huge country, with many diverse 'homegrown' cultures), and embrace that. What made this country great wasn't 'embracing other cultures' it was incorporating whatever we thought worked from other peoples cultures and discarding what didn't. Then assimilating the descendants of the original immigrants into the gestalt.

As far as I'm concerned, the culture of my small, white, Midwestern town is just as important...if not VASTLY more important...than some imported one that has no real reason for being there.

But as for why I have a specific problem with illegal Mexican immigrants...first off their culture isn't even really theirs...about the only thing Mexican...excuse me...Aztec...about their culture is Chihuahuas and the food. The Spanish Language and the Catholic Church were imposed upon them by the Spanish. There are still quasi-feudal descendants of the original slave masters lording it up down there if you look hard enough. So I really don't have all that much truck with it as a 'culture' in the first place. But more significantly, there is a significant portion of these illegal immigrants (and their citizen descendants) who believe that the entire Southwestern United States rightfully belongs to the Mexican people and is the territory of Aztlan. Which is sedition, and could some day inspire terrorism...imagine what would happen if Al Quaeda got together with La Raza... They need to sort out their own damn country, not try and steal what we've (by we, I include Americans of latino descent) built here. I'm not anti-immigration either, I do think its pretty unfair of the Mexicans to abuse the generous immigration policies (if they have their own flaws, they're still pretty generous) my country has tried to maintain.

Most of all I'm sick of people who think that every culture is special and important, and deserving of protection, except mine. Or usually their own. Though perhaps a culture which would produce so many people who value every culture but their own deserves to die.

hey immagrant rant guy - you stay off the weed -