Games designers rarely slate each others’ software releases. It’s a slightly glib code they seem to have developed amongst themselves, a code that has made for many a dull interview. Luckily, no-one got around to telling Tomonobu ‘Pistol Tongue’ Itagaki.
We’re all used to his savaging Namco’s Tekken series. It’s one of the things he does best, aside from making some of the greatest videogames in the world, of course. In an interview with US magazine EGM, Itagaki is on top form. When asked to list hit least favourite games of all time, he names Tekken, Tekken II, Tekken III, Tekken 4 and Tekken 5. For the first four games in the series his explanation of his dislike for them is one word. “Hate!” he chirrups over and over.
On Tekken 5 he goes into more depth. “I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which,” explains Itagaki. “I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more.”
We'll bring you more news of outbursts from Itagaki as he opens his mouth in the future.
We’re all used to his savaging Namco’s Tekken series. It’s one of the things he does best, aside from making some of the greatest videogames in the world, of course. In an interview with US magazine EGM, Itagaki is on top form. When asked to list hit least favourite games of all time, he names Tekken, Tekken II, Tekken III, Tekken 4 and Tekken 5. For the first four games in the series his explanation of his dislike for them is one word. “Hate!” he chirrups over and over.
On Tekken 5 he goes into more depth. “I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which,” explains Itagaki. “I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more.”
We'll bring you more news of outbursts from Itagaki as he opens his mouth in the future.
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Comments
Coxy 29 Sep 2005 14:21
1/14
“I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which,”
It's quite simple really: Tekken is the first game, Tekken 2 is the second, Tekken 3 the third, and so on.
“I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs"
The Dead or Alive has had countless spin offs, and lets not mention Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball - Hardly a fighting game, now, is it.
"this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well."
Well, I have to agree, the less said about that game, the better.
The Tekken games are excellent, and have a following all over the world
It's quite simple really: Tekken is the first game, Tekken 2 is the second, Tekken 3 the third, and so on.
“I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs"
The Dead or Alive has had countless spin offs, and lets not mention Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball - Hardly a fighting game, now, is it.
"this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well."
Well, I have to agree, the less said about that game, the better.
The Tekken games are excellent, and have a following all over the world
LUPOS 29 Sep 2005 14:57
2/14
Coxy Likes Pasties wrote:
The Dead or Alive has had countless spin offs, and lets not mention Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball - Hardly a fighting game, now, is it.
uh... if you didnt mention DOAX then... what other of the "countless" spin offs woudl you mention? i no ninja gaiden certainley isnt a spin off since the original is much older... and its freakign fantastic...
as for the whole tekken thing... i havent been a fan since 2... basically cause all the seques have been so similar except four which was a step in the wrong direction tryign to change the rings. i dont necesarily think its the crap fest he makes it out to be... but i do love the fact that he has the marbles to keep sayign it!
_______
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KaGEmaru 29 Sep 2005 15:47
3/14
Coxy Likes Pasties wrote:
The Tekken games are excellent, and have a following all over the world
Well, they are 'excellent' for a spin or two but aside from that I don't know what the numbers are for - they're more or less the @#$$%#^ same. Sure, we've got the next VF, SF, DoA (etc) on the line too but I don't see any version of Tekken that has made or is going to do any such innovation as those beat 'em ups...
VastikRoot 29 Sep 2005 16:28
4/14
Tekken = boring, slow and clunky.
Sorry if u like it but thats my opinion.
Was wowed by the 3d graphics of the first 2 but not for long...
Sorry if u like it but thats my opinion.
Was wowed by the 3d graphics of the first 2 but not for long...
fluffstardx 29 Sep 2005 16:54
5/14
Tekken 3 I liked. It was Tekken 2 or 1, but I actually liked it. The others? Well, I am a massive fan of Soul Calibur and DoA2, and not many other fighting games give me any enjoyment. And before anyone says anything, I play as Hayate/Ein. But I do turn the age up...
As for these supposed spinoffs of DoA, where? Beach Volleyball was a laugh, and followed on from DoA3 at least. Hardly a massive list. And it was better done than Tekken Ball Mode...
Let's face it, Tekken Force Mode and its ilk are what made Tekken a little... crappier.
As for these supposed spinoffs of DoA, where? Beach Volleyball was a laugh, and followed on from DoA3 at least. Hardly a massive list. And it was better done than Tekken Ball Mode...
Let's face it, Tekken Force Mode and its ilk are what made Tekken a little... crappier.
Joji 29 Sep 2005 23:29
6/14
Well here's my two pence on this one. It seems Itagaki is both talented and respected, cool. And while it's refreshing to get a developer slate anothers work for a laugh and a half, I think his comment are like those of school boy in the playground.
Roll that forked tongue back in your head for a moment Itagaki. If there was no Virtual Fighter there would be no Tekken and if no Tekken there would clearly be no Dead Or Alive games. It's okay if you do or don't like Tekken but the sales of the games speak for themselves and it didn't get to number five by being unpopular.
Maybe Itagaki had an interview with Namco and didn't get the job and Dead Or Alive is his two fingers to Namco in revenge. If that's the case it would be interesting. I do think that if Itagaki has so much confidence in DOA over Tekken then perhaps he should stop bending over for MS and make DOA multiformat (atleast Nacmo did this once with SC2 but should have built on the multiformat angle more with the Tekken series too) to show console fans what they are missing in his great product, instead of bitching about Tekken. Sorry Itagaki, but actions speak louder than words. Show us how good your DOA kung fu is.
On another note I wish EGM had asked him what he thought of Soul Calibur series but we might have got more of the same. Itagaki also forgets that Namco also makes other types of game which he says nothing about. SC series deserves respect as a deeper style of fighting game I reckon.
Why do I like Tekken series? I'd say story and characters behind the fighting, I like the CG movies and I also love the game art and music soundtrack. While it may play in a simpler way than say SF series, it's worth picking up IMO, perhaps in the same way that DOA Extreme Volleyball is gratuitous fun but worth buying for it's gameplay and cheddar factor.
Roll that forked tongue back in your head for a moment Itagaki. If there was no Virtual Fighter there would be no Tekken and if no Tekken there would clearly be no Dead Or Alive games. It's okay if you do or don't like Tekken but the sales of the games speak for themselves and it didn't get to number five by being unpopular.
Maybe Itagaki had an interview with Namco and didn't get the job and Dead Or Alive is his two fingers to Namco in revenge. If that's the case it would be interesting. I do think that if Itagaki has so much confidence in DOA over Tekken then perhaps he should stop bending over for MS and make DOA multiformat (atleast Nacmo did this once with SC2 but should have built on the multiformat angle more with the Tekken series too) to show console fans what they are missing in his great product, instead of bitching about Tekken. Sorry Itagaki, but actions speak louder than words. Show us how good your DOA kung fu is.
On another note I wish EGM had asked him what he thought of Soul Calibur series but we might have got more of the same. Itagaki also forgets that Namco also makes other types of game which he says nothing about. SC series deserves respect as a deeper style of fighting game I reckon.
Why do I like Tekken series? I'd say story and characters behind the fighting, I like the CG movies and I also love the game art and music soundtrack. While it may play in a simpler way than say SF series, it's worth picking up IMO, perhaps in the same way that DOA Extreme Volleyball is gratuitous fun but worth buying for it's gameplay and cheddar factor.
LUPOS 30 Sep 2005 04:27
7/14
Joji wrote:
Well here's my two pence on this one. It seems Itagaki is both talented and respected, cool. And while it's refreshing to get a developer slate anothers work for a laugh and a half, I think his comment are like those of school boy in the playground.
i dont think they are completley out of line since the mans work is consistentley compared with tekken by all of the gamming media... if everytime someone talked about your work they related it to somethign you thought was crap, i think yuo woudl get a bit miffed as well.
Joji wrote:
Roll that forked tongue back in your head for a moment Itagaki. If there was no Virtual Fighter there would be no Tekken and if no Tekken there would clearly be no Dead Or Alive games. It's okay if you do or don't like Tekken but the sales of the games speak for themselves and it didn't get to number five by being unpopular.
if there was no vf there woudl be no any of them... and even that is a thin statment of possibel fact since 3d gamming woudl have accord with or without segas pioneering and fighting games would of doubtlesslesy made the leap at soem point... they might be a whole different animal now had things not had vf as a jumping point, but to in anyway credit Tekken for doa is completley of mark. tekken didnt lead to doa anymore than battle arena toshiden led to sould edge.
Joji wrote:
Maybe Itagaki had an interview with Namco and didn't get the job and Dead Or Alive is his two fingers to Namco in revenge. If that's the case it would be interesting. I do think that if Itagaki has so much confidence in DOA over Tekken then perhaps he should stop bending over for MS and make DOA multiformat (atleast Nacmo did this once with SC2 but should have built on the multiformat angle more with the Tekken series too) to show console fans what they are missing in his great product, instead of bitching about Tekken. Sorry Itagaki, but actions speak louder than words. Show us how good your DOA kung fu is..
On another note I wish EGM had asked him what he thought of Soul Calibur series but we might have got more of the same. Itagaki also forgets that Namco also makes other types of game which he says nothing about. SC series deserves respect as a deeper style of fighting game I reckon.
On another note I wish EGM had asked him what he thought of Soul Calibur series but we might have got more of the same. Itagaki also forgets that Namco also makes other types of game which he says nothing about. SC series deserves respect as a deeper style of fighting game I reckon.
the team that makes the SC games is not the team responsibel for the tekken series, and being a weapon bassed fighter sc is used in reffernce to doa alot less frequently so he has no reason to comment. as for the multi format option there is only one instance since the advent of tekken that namco has gonne multi format, through 5 tekkens and 3 soudl caliburs... not exactly a track record of sharign the wealth. plus itakgaki chose the xbox as his platform due to its obvious technical merits over the other systems availabel at the time... port to the others woudl have degraded his game. where as tekken and sc coudl both stand to only benefit from the trip to the two suerior consoles (excepting of course the cube iffy d-pad)
Joji wrote:
Why do I like Tekken series? I'd say story and characters behind the fighting, I like the CG movies and I also love the game art and music soundtrack. While it may play in a simpler way than say SF series, it's worth picking up IMO, perhaps in the same way that DOA Extreme Volleyball is gratuitous fun but worth buying for it's gameplay and cheddar factor.
the subtetlety and acuracey of the control in doax is commendable. its the sort of game i woudl usally expect from nintendo (minus the bikini chics of coure). and its also one reason why i was very sad to hear the 360 does not have analog face buttons... apparently ms felt the cost to produce was not worth it since itagaki is basicall ythe only designer i can think of to ever use the functionality.
as for tekken my dislike for it lies in the unantrual control scheme... in SC or DOA is i push punch i punch, and i i push forward and punch... i lunge... in tekken... i might lay down..or switch stances... or somethin other unexpected and unnatural occurance. the game is unaplayabel to new commers unless they either have an instruction manual with a move list or a great deal of pastience for experimentation... and in an arcade setting, the true home of tekken, neither one is usually an option.
______
emperorsamoth 30 Sep 2005 14:54
8/14
Tekken games have always sucked, as their gameplay seems to be half assed. I remember back in the day when Tekken 1 hit the arcades to compete with Virtua Fighter 2. Yes, there is a following for this game, but it's usually the people who hated Virtua Fighter in the first place. I hate the fact there's a button for every limb in the game, it's just horrible.
vault 13 30 Sep 2005 15:59
9/14
LUPOS wrote:
and its also one reason why i was very sad to hear the 360 does not have analog face buttons... apparently ms felt the cost to produce was not worth it since itagaki is basicall ythe only designer i can think of to ever use the functionality.
Madden NFL 2002
Madden NFL 2003
Madden NFL 2004
Madden NFL 2005
Madden NFL 2006
NBA Live 2003
NBA Live 2004
NBA Live 2005
NBA Live 2006
Tiger Woods 2003
Tiger Woods 2004
Tiger Woods 2005
Tiger Woods 2006
Top Spin Tennis
NFL Fever 2002
NFL Fever 2003
NFL Fever 2004
Oh I could go on but you get the idea...
LUPOS wrote:
as for tekken my dislike for it lies in the unantrual control scheme... in SC or DOA is i push punch i punch, and i i push forward and punch... i lunge... in tekken... i might lay down..or switch stances... or somethin other unexpected and unnatural occurance. the game is unaplayabel to new commers unless they either have an instruction manual with a move list or a great deal of pastience for experimentation... and in an arcade setting, the true home of tekken, neither one is usually an option.
[/LUPOS]
Everyone claims Tekken is a button masher. Which means hitting random buttons does something. A kick does a kick (left or right appendage) and a punch does a punch (left or right appendage. I'm sorry if you've never heard of different fighting styles before. If Lei Wulong happens to lay down on the ground for you by pressing the two kick buttons (which might I add the f**kin' move requires use of BOTH legs to lay down) to set himself up for a cherry picker, well damn, deal with it. Learn the game. Just because DOA is overly simplistic, (you can win by just mashing punch over and over or punch punch down kick or whatever) doesn't make it any better to play.
And as for Tekken innovation:
Tekken - interesting characters complete with REAL back stories and CG cut scenes, wide array of fighting styles (read: actually look and play different), but alas no real gameplay mechanic innovation except for four attack buttons for legs and hands
Tekken 2 - Over doubled character roster, chain throws, s**tloads of ground manuvers, reversals
Tekken 3 - Parries, even more ground moves (throws, chain throws, mounts, combos), some characters with over a hundred moves, most characters with a buttload of stances
Tekken Tag - Tag mode and just every Tekken fighter available
Tekken 4 - Walled enviroments, wall moves, stance shifting throws, Jin moveset overhaul (no longer a cheap motherfucker), etc.
Tekken 5 - Overall improved fighting mechanics, most everyone is balanced now
Look it's easy to say Tekken sucks because you hate it, great. I don't care, nor should you type of people be posting. at least my man Lupos here tries to back himself up with a reasonable arguement. He fails, because if he hates Tekken for being illogical in it's fighting mechanics, then he would rather have the overly simplistic DOA just because it's easier to comprehend. It's easy to play because punch does a punch and kick does a kick and a throw, well we don't use throws because punch and kick are so effective.
I do hate DOA, as you can see, but the game is perfectly average. Nothing more. The story is HORRIBLE, character designs HORRIBLE, gameplay balance HORRIBLE, the graphics awesome but they better be for all Itagaki's cock sucking on Gates, the wide array of moves, well I have yet to see.
What has DOA really brought to the table other than hot chicks and a few walls???
[/LUPOS]
Everyone claims Tekken is a button masher. Which means hitting random buttons does something. A kick does a kick (left or right appendage) and a punch does a punch (left or right appendage. I'm sorry if you've never heard of different fighting styles before. If Lei Wulong happens to lay down on the ground for you by pressing the two kick buttons (which might I add the f**kin' move requires use of BOTH legs to lay down) to set himself up for a cherry picker, well damn, deal with it. Learn the game. Just because DOA is overly simplistic, (you can win by just mashing punch over and over or punch punch down kick or whatever) doesn't make it any better to play.
And as for Tekken innovation:
Tekken - interesting characters complete with REAL back stories and CG cut scenes, wide array of fighting styles (read: actually look and play different), but alas no real gameplay mechanic innovation except for four attack buttons for legs and hands
Tekken 2 - Over doubled character roster, chain throws, s**tloads of ground manuvers, reversals
Tekken 3 - Parries, even more ground moves (throws, chain throws, mounts, combos), some characters with over a hundred moves, most characters with a buttload of stances
Tekken Tag - Tag mode and just every Tekken fighter available
Tekken 4 - Walled enviroments, wall moves, stance shifting throws, Jin moveset overhaul (no longer a cheap motherfucker), etc.
Tekken 5 - Overall improved fighting mechanics, most everyone is balanced now
Look it's easy to say Tekken sucks because you hate it, great. I don't care, nor should you type of people be posting. at least my man Lupos here tries to back himself up with a reasonable arguement. He fails, because if he hates Tekken for being illogical in it's fighting mechanics, then he would rather have the overly simplistic DOA just because it's easier to comprehend. It's easy to play because punch does a punch and kick does a kick and a throw, well we don't use throws because punch and kick are so effective.
I do hate DOA, as you can see, but the game is perfectly average. Nothing more. The story is HORRIBLE, character designs HORRIBLE, gameplay balance HORRIBLE, the graphics awesome but they better be for all Itagaki's cock sucking on Gates, the wide array of moves, well I have yet to see.
What has DOA really brought to the table other than hot chicks and a few walls???
LUPOS 30 Sep 2005 16:07
10/14
uh...
tag mode?
walled arenas?
multi tierd arenas?
environmental attakcs? (danger zones)
reversals
combo moves with specific pairs of teamates
analog buttons control in a fighting game
... but other than that your right... tekken and its 5 game run towrds decent balance is obviously superior!
:)
____
tag mode?
walled arenas?
multi tierd arenas?
environmental attakcs? (danger zones)
reversals
combo moves with specific pairs of teamates
analog buttons control in a fighting game
... but other than that your right... tekken and its 5 game run towrds decent balance is obviously superior!
:)
____
vault 13 30 Sep 2005 20:38
11/14
LUPOS wrote:
uh...
tag mode?
walled arenas?
multi tierd arenas?
environmental attakcs? (danger zones)
reversals
combo moves with specific pairs of teamates
analog buttons control in a fighting game
... but other than that your right... tekken and its 5 game run towrds decent balance is obviously superior!
:
tag mode?
walled arenas?
multi tierd arenas?
environmental attakcs? (danger zones)
reversals
combo moves with specific pairs of teamates
analog buttons control in a fighting game
... but other than that your right... tekken and its 5 game run towrds decent balance is obviously superior!
:
I think Street Fighter had tag mode well before Itagaki thought of ripping it off (not just in 2D either). Virtua Fighter had reversals even before Tekken used it let alone Dead Or Alive, Fighting Vipers had enviromental attacks AND walled areas, and Tekken Tag had combo specific moves for certain characters. Now I'll give you the multi-tiered enviroments, pretty cool, but do nothing to the overall fighting system except that they can say, "Look how cool this looks and we're the only the ones that can do it!". As for the analog button sensitivity, nice idea but ultimately failed as proof in DOA2U not implementing it.
I'm not knocking the game, even though it sucks, I'm just saying Itagaki better shut his cornhole because all he's done for the fighting genre is make the tits bigger and more jumbly. And that's not really helping anyone.
Joji 1 Oct 2005 01:25
12/14
I agree that the button for every limb concept of Tekken is a little awkward compared to the simpler light medium and heavy punches and kicks that have made up our beat em up interfaces for years.
Tekken is a game that takes time to learn, you get out of it what you put in simple as that. The very fact each game gives you an onscreen command list of moves to make it easier for you to master characters without looking at the instruction booklet.Tekken 2 was the first vesion I bought for PSone and it is stil one of my best beat em ups. I've played 5 and I like what I see so I'll also invest at some point. Playing it recently it wasn't long before I was playing well with Lei or Asuka (the latter has the moves of Jun of T2 I believe) just like I did way back in Tekken 2, and it's amazing what moves your brain remembers quickly.
I still prefer Street Fighter series (SF Alpha 2 and 3rd Strike being the series highlights for balance, animation and gameplay) for it's simpler approach that I can play it and still have fun on the highest speed setting. Very few games would let me do this but I guess it's down to how much moves your brain can plan and execute in a fight.
As far as the evolution of the beat em up has gone I like that Namco Bandai (that's their name now), Capcom, Tecmo etc all have their own ideas of what a good beat em up should be. From an overall perspective (including good music which Namco always does a great job of for beat em up and driving games)) and also those lovely CG scene that keep the Tekken story moving nicely) Namco stand at the top, with Capcom in second. Capcom's art production is outstanding and there characters endearing like Tekken's if not moreso and we all have our faves.
Each to their own anyway, play what you like but give each game a chance.
Tekken is a game that takes time to learn, you get out of it what you put in simple as that. The very fact each game gives you an onscreen command list of moves to make it easier for you to master characters without looking at the instruction booklet.Tekken 2 was the first vesion I bought for PSone and it is stil one of my best beat em ups. I've played 5 and I like what I see so I'll also invest at some point. Playing it recently it wasn't long before I was playing well with Lei or Asuka (the latter has the moves of Jun of T2 I believe) just like I did way back in Tekken 2, and it's amazing what moves your brain remembers quickly.
I still prefer Street Fighter series (SF Alpha 2 and 3rd Strike being the series highlights for balance, animation and gameplay) for it's simpler approach that I can play it and still have fun on the highest speed setting. Very few games would let me do this but I guess it's down to how much moves your brain can plan and execute in a fight.
As far as the evolution of the beat em up has gone I like that Namco Bandai (that's their name now), Capcom, Tecmo etc all have their own ideas of what a good beat em up should be. From an overall perspective (including good music which Namco always does a great job of for beat em up and driving games)) and also those lovely CG scene that keep the Tekken story moving nicely) Namco stand at the top, with Capcom in second. Capcom's art production is outstanding and there characters endearing like Tekken's if not moreso and we all have our faves.
Each to their own anyway, play what you like but give each game a chance.
fluffstardx 1 Oct 2005 16:07
13/14
It says a lot that even after all the beat-em-ups that I've played Marvel Vs Capcom 2 is still my favourite. I still regard it as the most balanced fighting game ever. In 3D I do prefer the DoA series over Tekken simply because I found it more accessible and replayable, and having seen how well a button-masher can do on Tekkens 3 and 4 I can't play them anymore.
Soul Calibur on Dreamcast's still the 3D daddy. Oddly, that means all 3 beat em ups I mentioned were on Dreamcast...
Soul Calibur on Dreamcast's still the 3D daddy. Oddly, that means all 3 beat em ups I mentioned were on Dreamcast...
vault 13 2 Oct 2005 06:46
14/14
I totally agree with Joji.
I'm sorry if you lack the skill to evade, block, parry, and counter attack your button mashing opponent. I understand the typical Eddy Gordo kick fest crutch most unskilled players rely on would make most mortal men form a dark spot on the carpet, but all you need to do is learn the combos and strings and your set. Button mashers don't know the intricate variations of strings you can do. It's not all handstand -> leg spin -> leg spin -> one handed kick. Did you know you could use a punch attack at the end? The button masher surely didn't, so you know kicks are coming. I mean, also everyone claims Tekken is as slow as molassas (which may be partly true, I'm not here to argue that), so that means one should have ample time to drum up an effective counter measure.
Oh and by the way, and the point of that last rant, is that Dead Or Alive offers less options and combos for attacks. And most of those are simple punch punch kick strings. Very easy for a button masher to excel, also for the fact of having less types of countering and less moves to counter with.
Also Dead Or Alive has no balancing. None whatsofuckinever! Just try beating any girl with Bass and you'll never win.
fluffstardx wrote:
In 3D I do prefer the DoA series over Tekken simply because I found it more accessible and replayable, and having seen how well a button-masher can do on Tekkens 3 and 4 I can't play them anymore.
I'm sorry if you lack the skill to evade, block, parry, and counter attack your button mashing opponent. I understand the typical Eddy Gordo kick fest crutch most unskilled players rely on would make most mortal men form a dark spot on the carpet, but all you need to do is learn the combos and strings and your set. Button mashers don't know the intricate variations of strings you can do. It's not all handstand -> leg spin -> leg spin -> one handed kick. Did you know you could use a punch attack at the end? The button masher surely didn't, so you know kicks are coming. I mean, also everyone claims Tekken is as slow as molassas (which may be partly true, I'm not here to argue that), so that means one should have ample time to drum up an effective counter measure.
Oh and by the way, and the point of that last rant, is that Dead Or Alive offers less options and combos for attacks. And most of those are simple punch punch kick strings. Very easy for a button masher to excel, also for the fact of having less types of countering and less moves to counter with.
Also Dead Or Alive has no balancing. None whatsofuckinever! Just try beating any girl with Bass and you'll never win.
