World Exclusive: How Nintendo escaped the case that might see Sony pay Microsoft for every PlayStation product sold

Immersion CEO outlines case only here

Posted by Staff
World Exclusive: How Nintendo escaped the case that might see Sony pay Microsoft for every PlayStation product sold
SPOnG would like to point out that the content of the following piece is in no way related to the date of publication.

Following on from news earlier this week which saw Sony lose a key IP case and almost had all PlayStation products withdrawn from sale in the US Immersion Corp CEO Victor Viegas has spoken exclusively to SPOnG about the case.

There were two key issues we wanted outlining, not least the fact that Nintendo has never been mentioned in the case(s) Immersion Corp brought against Sony and Microsoft. Given that Nintendo executives have stated, on the record in the public domain for years that rumble functionality was their innovation, an innovation subsequently plagiarised by both Sony and Microsoft, it seems strange that they were never implicated in any case.

Why is this? “Well, Sony’s PlayStation and Microsoft’s Xbox pads work in very similar, almost identical ways,” explained Viegas, “so it made sense to pursue both companies that were infringing our patents, using dual motors in unison. It was a total of, I think, 16 claims across two patents.” Yes, it does make sense, but again, why not include Nintendo, especially given the fact that Nintendo claims the feedback technology employed in all modern games controllers is its own?

“We never analysed Nintendo products.” Is the more-than surprising answer offered. “There is, I believe, a difference in the technologies used but we never investigated those of Nintendo.”

And on to a well-grounded conspiracy theory that has been brewing in SPOnG’s collective thoughts for some weeks now. A conspiracy that sees a Microsoft masterstroke which cripples its key opponent, sees it take the moral high-ground and net around $15 million profit in the process.

On February 11, 2002, Immersion filed a complaint against Microsoft Corporation, Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc., and Sony Computer Entertainment of America, Inc. in the Northern District Court of California alleging infringement of U.S. Patent Nos. 5,889,672 and 6,275,213

Then on July 25, 2003, Immersion contemporaneously executed a series of agreements with Microsoft that:

1. Settled Immersion’s lawsuit against Microsoft
2. Granted Microsoft a worldwide royalty-free, irrevocable license to Immersion’s portfolio with Microsoft splashing out around $6 million on a 10% stake in Immersion
3. Provided Microsoft with sublicense rights to pursue certain license arrangements directly with third parties including Sony Computer Entertainment which, if consummated, would result in payments to Immersion.

At this point, Microsoft decided to play its hand. It relented to Immersion’s assurances that technologies employed within the Xbox controller, hardware and related software infringed on established patents. It was stung for just short of $20 million in retrospectively applied licensing fees, an unavoidable consequence of setting a legal precedent that potentially has the ability to bring its key rival to its knees.

In doing this, Microsoft effectively made it’s settlement with Immersion a test case, a case that would then be used against Sony. What’s more, it put itself in a position to demand payments from Sony on all PlayStation hardware, peripherals and software sold, on an ongoing basis. This weeks ruling saw Microsoft net around $8 million. The shares in Immersion have also jumped, with a return of around $6 million.

It seems beyond the realms of possibility that Microsoft didn’t have this roadmap into the very fabric of the PlayStation business model mapped-out from the start. When this was put to Viegas he simply said, “I cannot argue with the logic in what you say. Microsoft took full advantage of the opportunity offered to it and was fair in its dealings with us throughout.”

To recap, Immersion, backed by Microsoft will have the right to demand royalties from Sony on every single PlayStation product that makes use of DualShock, an astoundingly astute move resulting in a case that Sony simply must win.

So onto the dealings with Sony. Is there a chance that a settlement will be reached? Given what has been outlined above, it is understandable that Sony will not want to relent in any way and must be running scared. The idea of paying Microsoft’s Xbox division a royalty on all PlayStation sales if perhaps only second in the list of Thing That Officially Must Never Happen to having all SCE products suspended from sale altogether, a catastrophe narrowly avoided earlier this week.

“We are prepared for a long and drawn out fight,” said Viegas in closing. “We are hoping for the best but are prepared for the worst with Sony. We would rather a compliant licensee agreement was reached with them. As to whether that’s likely I have no idea."
Companies:

Comments

Showing the 20 most recent comments. Read all 76.
neocarrillo 4 Apr 2005 17:52
57/76
PreciousRoi wrote:
BTW, FYI IMNSHO "disputes", the word is "disputes"


Yeah I left out the s, anyway I did my part a long time ago helping microsoft lose money when I bought an xbox. I lost money to cause I paid 300 for it and all the system has is halo. The other games like splinter cell and riddick are better on pc, so I buy the pc versions.
PreciousRoi 4 Apr 2005 21:41
58/76
I suppose you missed the bit earlier when he got all up ins about my spelling...

That wasn't so much pedantry as it was a touche. Notice my mocking use of Internet acronyms, although I couldn't quite bring myself to match his inimitable "LOL LOL LOL LAME ASS!!!!", (damn this education) mine was a bit more cerebral, I admit...I suppose I'd (MUCH) rather be considered a Champion of Pedantry than stoop to such a level.
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kid_77 4 Apr 2005 21:48
59/76
PreciousRoi wrote:
I suppose you missed the bit earlier when he got all up ins about my spelling...

I did, and I apologise... ... and take back my pendant :)

PreciousRoi wrote:
That wasn't so much pedantry as it was a touche.

Uh-huh.

PreciousRoi wrote:

Notice my mocking use of Internet acronyms, although I couldn't quite bring myself to match his inimitable "LOL LOL LOL LAME ASS!!!!", (damn this education) mine was a bit more cerebral, I admit...I suppose I'd (MUCH) rather be considered a Champion of Pedantry than stoop to such a level.

So I've stuck my ugly snout in without reading the entire thread. My bad. I shall stay out of these from now on. Ok guys, round two...
PreciousRoi 4 Apr 2005 22:04
60/76
no biggie, I think I'm prety much done with him anyway, I had previous to this shown mercy before when he had his brain fart or whatever that was...

I don't really think hes in my weight class anyway...his manager should throw in the towel before permenant brain damaga...oh wait, Ship has sailed I believe...
Biggie 4 Apr 2005 22:36
61/76
why no me? what did i do...

microsoft = evil computer corp
sony = evil home electronics corp
nintendo = lawsuit free rumble technology
MGM 5 Apr 2005 00:11
62/76
HAH! I'm willing to bet you typed that on a windows machine too....
Pilot13 5 Apr 2005 02:12
63/76
Reading all of the posts, the Sony fanboys sound more pathetic than the MS fanboys. Personally I prefer the xbox, but I'm not a fanboy. Don't be a slave to your corporate masters, buy whatever is genuinely the best console by looking at tech specs and online support etc. because you all sound like completely retarded consumer whores. no offence.
neocarrillo 5 Apr 2005 03:17
64/76
MGM wrote:
HAH! I'm willing to bet you typed that on a windows machine too....


Well you lost that bet, i'm on a mac, creator of the ipod you guy's use so much.
PreciousRoi 5 Apr 2005 06:42
65/76
I'm sure you know what you can do with that backhanded compliment...I actually take that as an insult.

Seriously, am I a MS fanboy just because I slap Sony fanboys around?
Do I have a deep and abiding love of Microsoft?
Or do I just like using their stuff because its the best of whats availible for my purposes?

I am a Link man, I always have been, ever since me and my buddy hooked up two PlayStations, two TVs, and 2 copies of Test Drive 4(and CoolBoarders 2). For the time, that was my definition of gaming goodness. Sony was my hero. Then in the next generation of games (TD 5, CB 3) this feature was dropped, I was sad. PS2 came out and the story at launch was that you needed an $80 iLink /FireWire hub to link more than 2 consoles together, and the cables weren't cheap either, then I heard it didn't work so good. If Gran Turismo 3 had had an inespensive, nonproprietary Link option that worked well, preferably through Ethernet, all my friends would have bought PS2s. (save stories of how you linked just fine via USB, etc...That was not what Sony said at time) Until we found out about Xbox that is.

Bottmon Line : If I want to hook up multiple consoles and play with my friends I needed an Xbox, thank goodness it also happens to be the best console, in terms of hardware, and they finally came out with more games that support Link after Live! service came out (they delayed many games with Link until then, which didn't score many points with me). I have Live!, even bought another console just for Live!, and its pretty damn neat, but I still have more fun playing with my friends.

If I'm anything I'm an anti-splitscreen, Link fanboy, but thats just because...its Link...
imnotregret 5 Apr 2005 14:13
66/76
I have previously refrained from joining these forums because i could see myself acting all high and mighty as such. I read this thread and couldn't stop myself. I deteste Sony. I mean i don't see anything good in what they have done for consoles. Microsoft may be a big faceless corporation yeah whatever who cares (what about Sony anyway?) but at least I can see they have an angle and are trying to progress the industry. The fact that Sony may have to pay them is the funniest thing i have heard for a long time. It was a great business move.

Anyway back to the original subject which i don't think anyone has actually commented on yet... I would like to know the specifics on the design which make the nintendo one differ from the sony design.

And to a previous post. Sony cannot sue microsoft if they don't have the original patent. Immersion have already done it because they hold the patent. If Sony steals it from then then microsoft steal it from sony sony can not sue MS. That is a hilarious notion.
PreciousRoi 5 Apr 2005 15:12
67/76
I covered this in my first post, actually...

Sony/MS use twinned motors with off balance weights of differing sizes(housed in the contoller), Nintendo probably uses a different system, as their original Rumble Pak doesn't look like its designed this way...and I would assume that any current Rumble is based on this design, even though (I've never actually held one) the current controller is more in line with the MS/Sony shape.

Look at a transparent(ish) Xbox controller, you can see the motors and weights, right in the palm, Sony's is surely almost exactly the same with a similar layout, utilizing the space near the palms to house the motors.

Admittedly I have said nothing of Nintendo's actual design as I haven't touched a Nintendo controller since the first (and last) time I picked up an N64 controller... (and people bitch about the size of the Duke) N64 is worst controller since original NES, which I have a special hatred for as it was the beginning of the Dark Age of the D-pad... Yeah, yeah they did have the Epyx 500J for NES, but I didn't need an NES anyway, I played the full arcade versions for free...

The DualShock was the most important advance in gaming controllers since...ever. Without dual analog sticks, there would be no console FPS as we know it... There I said something good about Sony... Still it took years of therapy to wean some of my friends offa that bloody, triple-damned d-pad...
Ditto 5 Apr 2005 16:37
68/76
Please can we stop with the fanboy stuff. It's really getting rather wearing now.
imnotregret 5 Apr 2005 19:00
69/76
hmmm i never thought of the fps functionability for the dual shock. I guess it's because i don't play many fps due to the shortage of the genre for the nintendo consoles...

oh well, i'll stick to fps's on the PC for now.
kid_77 5 Apr 2005 19:06
70/76
Adam M wrote:
Please can we stop with the fanboy stuff. It's really getting rather wearing now.

SPOnG has been (relatively) free of fanaticism since I joined, and it's why I kept coming back. Hopefully the new blood are just flexing their muscles, and things will settle down.
Pilot13 5 Apr 2005 20:47
71/76
I'm sure you know what you can do with that backhanded compliment...I actually take that as an insult.

Seriously, am I a MS fanboy just because I slap Sony fanboys around?
Do I have a deep and abiding love of Microsoft?
Or do I just like using their stuff because its the best of whats availible for my purposes?

I am a Link man, I always have been, ever since me and my buddy hooked up two PlayStations, two TVs, and 2 copies of Test Drive 4(and CoolBoarders 2). For the time, that was my definition of gaming goodness. Sony was my hero. Then in the next generation of games (TD 5, CB 3) this feature was dropped, I was sad. PS2 came out and the story at launch was that you needed an $80 iLink /FireWire hub to link more than 2 consoles together, and the cables weren't cheap either, then I heard it didn't work so good. If Gran Turismo 3 had had an inespensive, nonproprietary Link option that worked well, preferably through Ethernet, all my friends would have bought PS2s. (save stories of how you linked just fine via USB, etc...That was not what Sony said at time) Until we found out about Xbox that is.

Bottmon Line : If I want to hook up multiple consoles and play with my friends I needed an Xbox, thank goodness it also happens to be the best console, in terms of hardware, and they finally came out with more games that support Link after Live! service came out (they delayed many games with Link until then, which didn't score many points with me). I have Live!, even bought another console just for Live!, and its pretty damn neat, but I still have more fun playing with my friends.

If I'm anything I'm an anti-splitscreen, Link fanboy, but thats just because...its Link...


This is the kind of intellectual response that I was looking for. I've got all three consoles, and XBox is my favourite because its so easy to link up, whether online or in a lan. In fact, somewhat ironically, just had an Xbox Lan 'party'. We spent at least an hour on Zanzibar Assault fast. That was one game.

And in response to
Seriously, am I a MS fanboy just because I slap Sony fanboys around?


No, only if you act like an ignorant prick of what's actually happening and going to happen in gaming. For example, a sony fanboy would be 'the psp is going to be the best. youll buy it and love it because it has games on ps2 that look way cool' etc etc.
PreciousRoi 6 Apr 2005 10:40
72/76
You're a fanboy if:

You admit it, and/or roll around in fanboyism like a pig in stink.
You ignore facts or the availibility of more information* in favor of: Company Y r0xx0r5!! Company X Suxx0r5!!
You take things that happen to the company that makes your favorite console too personally.
You are so busy being a fanboy, you can't even keep your flaming posts straight.**

There might be more, but those are pretty good, and would catch a significant number of them right there.

*Actually reading the whole article, and looking up words you didn't understand would have helped.
**You know who you are.
Pilot13 8 Apr 2005 19:48
73/76
hey thats pretty true. I wrote an article for www.booleansoup.com on DS and PSP fanboyism but unfortunately the website isnt finished yet so it hasnt been uploaded.
Ditto 9 Apr 2005 15:24
74/76
kid_77 wrote:

SPOnG has been (relatively) free of fanaticism since I joined, and it's why I kept coming back. Hopefully the new blood are just flexing their muscles, and things will settle down.


Yeah. I can't remember this much fanboyism since we had the Playstation vs N64.

Anyone remember the "Greystation Poo" ;)?
kid_77 10 Apr 2005 11:30
75/76
Adam M wrote:
Yeah. I can't remember this much fanboyism since we had the Playstation vs N64.

Anyone remember the "Greystation Poo" ;)?


That was a good'n, and the come back was: "At least I ain't got a Shaturn".

And before that? Puppetdrive vs Super Bintendo. Ah, memories *wipes away tear*.
Ditto 10 Apr 2005 15:38
76/76
kid_77 wrote:

That was a good'n, and the come back was: "At least I ain't got a Shaturn".


That's a good one!
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