PSP pricing emerges!
Loss-leader talk scrubbed as PSP doubles DS SRP - Sony quick to dispell rumours
According to reports breaking right now across the world, Sony Computer Entertainment has revealed the first indication of the asking price for the Portable PlayStation.
The machine will have a price in Japan of 33,000 yen, SCEE German Managing Director Manfred Gerdes confirmed yesterday. He went on to say that this did not enable conclusions to be drawn about the European price of the machine. A rough conversion places 33,000 yen at around €245, but German computer trade publication 'MCV Games Markt' speculates that the price could be anywhere between €299 and €349.
The Japanese price works out at just short of £170, which could indicate a UK launch price of £199.
Sony were quick to dispell rumours, however. Heather Sorensen speaking for Sony Computer Entertainment America told us "official pricing for PSP (PlayStation Portable) has not been announced, and any information in this regard is only speculation."
Sony are understandably keen to control speculation on this issue, as the PSP is certain to be more expensive than Nintendo's competing DS handheld, a fact the Kyoto games giant will be keen to point out in the coming months. Sony are sure to stress that price will not be the key issue in the battle for market share between these two machines, which boast very different strengths and features.
The machine will have a price in Japan of 33,000 yen, SCEE German Managing Director Manfred Gerdes confirmed yesterday. He went on to say that this did not enable conclusions to be drawn about the European price of the machine. A rough conversion places 33,000 yen at around €245, but German computer trade publication 'MCV Games Markt' speculates that the price could be anywhere between €299 and €349.
The Japanese price works out at just short of £170, which could indicate a UK launch price of £199.
Sony were quick to dispell rumours, however. Heather Sorensen speaking for Sony Computer Entertainment America told us "official pricing for PSP (PlayStation Portable) has not been announced, and any information in this regard is only speculation."
Sony are understandably keen to control speculation on this issue, as the PSP is certain to be more expensive than Nintendo's competing DS handheld, a fact the Kyoto games giant will be keen to point out in the coming months. Sony are sure to stress that price will not be the key issue in the battle for market share between these two machines, which boast very different strengths and features.
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Showing the 20 most recent comments. Read all 55.
almondVanHelsing 23 Sep 2004 17:25
36/55
Metal Slug wrote:
>LOL!! More trying to impress us with your credentials?
>Some of us don't need to bother with the whole 'my
>dog's bigger' BS to get a point over!!
Some people don't have a dog, so they have to bark for themselves!
DoctorDee has credentials, he has seen the inside of the industry for some years and has some insight into how things work. He shows how he might know more than you, while you hide behind anonymous postings.
You keep saying "it will fail" just because it has a higher price than the DS. He keeps saying you are forgetting it is aimed at a broader market.
I must say, I agree with him more readily than I agree with you.
>LOL!! More trying to impress us with your credentials?
>Some of us don't need to bother with the whole 'my
>dog's bigger' BS to get a point over!!
Some people don't have a dog, so they have to bark for themselves!
DoctorDee has credentials, he has seen the inside of the industry for some years and has some insight into how things work. He shows how he might know more than you, while you hide behind anonymous postings.
You keep saying "it will fail" just because it has a higher price than the DS. He keeps saying you are forgetting it is aimed at a broader market.
I must say, I agree with him more readily than I agree with you.
config 23 Sep 2004 17:52
37/55
Metal Slug wrote:
>*yawn* Try actually reading the thread. The point
>was (once again) that a super high price point
>for the PSP is not the way to try and overturn 15
>years of Nintendo domination.
But it isn't a high price point, let alone a super high price point.
As was pointed out earlier, the original GB launched at a price that, when you adjust for interest and level of income, launched at around the same price.
It had a s**t screen (Paperboy was impossible) and no movie or music playback. For about the same price.
>*yawn* Try actually reading the thread. The point
>was (once again) that a super high price point
>for the PSP is not the way to try and overturn 15
>years of Nintendo domination.
But it isn't a high price point, let alone a super high price point.
As was pointed out earlier, the original GB launched at a price that, when you adjust for interest and level of income, launched at around the same price.
It had a s**t screen (Paperboy was impossible) and no movie or music playback. For about the same price.
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redspear 24 Sep 2004 03:52
38/55
This is hilarious!
This reminds of the days when people bickered about the SNES and Genesis. Ahh the memories!!!
Anyways I think the PSP will have high initial sales and eventually fade.
Why?
PRICE
-The PSP has to really justify any price point over 250 dollars for a handheld. Handhelds are different than consoles you can drop them you can leave them on the bus the screen can get scratched or cracked, buttons can stick and when things go wrong your only option is to replace the whole thing not just a controller ir what not.
MEDIA
- too many this is a strong point it can hold a lot more then the DS(this is a good thing) it enables CG sequences in games with much more ease and other benefits BUT they can scratch you need to carry around a memory card in order to save the game and they chew battery power(the motor for the UMD-ROM).
-Which leads me to my next point the media is new and only for the PSP. I have to buy the same movie twice if I want to watch it on my PSP.. I f I were able to copy movies I own onto a 1.7 gig mini DVD-R it would be a different story but this to me is a gimmick and even if the PSP thrives this will fail.
-MP3's are a nice feature and from what I understand you can load the music on a memory stick people who own a PSP will probably use this feature but I also suspect if you can afford one (initially at least) you probably already own a IPod which can hold more and probably indexes music better.
BATTERY
- unless they improve this I hear 2 hours for a movie and 6 hours max depending on the game(I heard 10 hours for MP3's)
MARKET
-I hear all this talk a bout a new market. Truth is a I see the PSP bringing in some new people but not enough to break through.
-MP3-Market is already taken(IPOD)
-Movies-not really taken and they could have really shown through here except they created new media so I explained why I think it will fail on this one.
-Games-This is the PSP's technical shining point, a brilliant screen, incredible handheld graphics, analog controlbut the battery will be drained by those features.
The PSP is an awesome home console to handheld machine that will provide minimal loss in quality but a mediocre all in one machine.
The DS will also sport 3D graphics but on a much lesser level, The innovative features will be underutilized or poorly utilized but some games will shine. Its advantage is that it will come out much earlier in Japan and the States and be about half the price. I saw someone blow off backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it was one of the features that helped propel the PS2(play older games on your new system while you wait for more titles to come out after you beat the new ones with out lugging around 2 systems). The DS can also play MP3's via a GBA add on and it can also play movies--but that is a hack.
Well that is for starters I have more to say if anyone replies.
This reminds of the days when people bickered about the SNES and Genesis. Ahh the memories!!!
Anyways I think the PSP will have high initial sales and eventually fade.
Why?
PRICE
-The PSP has to really justify any price point over 250 dollars for a handheld. Handhelds are different than consoles you can drop them you can leave them on the bus the screen can get scratched or cracked, buttons can stick and when things go wrong your only option is to replace the whole thing not just a controller ir what not.
MEDIA
- too many this is a strong point it can hold a lot more then the DS(this is a good thing) it enables CG sequences in games with much more ease and other benefits BUT they can scratch you need to carry around a memory card in order to save the game and they chew battery power(the motor for the UMD-ROM).
-Which leads me to my next point the media is new and only for the PSP. I have to buy the same movie twice if I want to watch it on my PSP.. I f I were able to copy movies I own onto a 1.7 gig mini DVD-R it would be a different story but this to me is a gimmick and even if the PSP thrives this will fail.
-MP3's are a nice feature and from what I understand you can load the music on a memory stick people who own a PSP will probably use this feature but I also suspect if you can afford one (initially at least) you probably already own a IPod which can hold more and probably indexes music better.
BATTERY
- unless they improve this I hear 2 hours for a movie and 6 hours max depending on the game(I heard 10 hours for MP3's)
MARKET
-I hear all this talk a bout a new market. Truth is a I see the PSP bringing in some new people but not enough to break through.
-MP3-Market is already taken(IPOD)
-Movies-not really taken and they could have really shown through here except they created new media so I explained why I think it will fail on this one.
-Games-This is the PSP's technical shining point, a brilliant screen, incredible handheld graphics, analog controlbut the battery will be drained by those features.
The PSP is an awesome home console to handheld machine that will provide minimal loss in quality but a mediocre all in one machine.
The DS will also sport 3D graphics but on a much lesser level, The innovative features will be underutilized or poorly utilized but some games will shine. Its advantage is that it will come out much earlier in Japan and the States and be about half the price. I saw someone blow off backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it was one of the features that helped propel the PS2(play older games on your new system while you wait for more titles to come out after you beat the new ones with out lugging around 2 systems). The DS can also play MP3's via a GBA add on and it can also play movies--but that is a hack.
Well that is for starters I have more to say if anyone replies.
DoctorDee 24 Sep 2004 07:41
39/55
redspear wrote:
>This reminds of the days when people bickered
>about the SNES and Genesis. Ahh the memories!!!
Holy wars.
>Anyways I think the PSP will have high initial
>sales and eventually fade.
Hmm, I think kinda the opposite. I think there will be resistance to the inital price, there'll be OK initial sales: early adopters, Sony fetishists, tech-junkies, mooching journos who fail to blag one etc. But I think mainstreat adoption won't happen until after people see it in the hands of their tech-fetishist friends, and Son'y's marketing campaign, which is bound to be HUGE, kicks in.
>PRICE
>-The PSP has to really justify any price point
>over 250 dollars for a handheld.
I hear this, and I still can't believe it. In real terms, the PSP is LESS than the Game Boy cost at launch. And it is significantly more technically advanced than any other handheld.
>Handhelds are
>different than consoles you can drop them you can
>leave them on the bus the screen can get
>scratched or cracked, buttons can stick and when
>things go wrong your only option is to replace
>the whole thing not just a controller ir what
>not.
Yeah, but for the sticky button stuff there's a warranty, and for leaving on the bus there's insurance or just being more careful. Most everyone in the UK is carting £250 of phone with them, and those same issues don't worry them about that.
>MEDIA
>- too many this is a strong point it can hold a
>lot more then the DS(this is a good thing) it
>enables CG sequences in games with much more ease
>and other benefits BUT they can scratch you need
>to carry around a memory card in order to save
>the game and they chew battery power(the motor
>for the UMD-ROM).
I'm ambivalent on the medium. True it's a new format, but what do you want, it to take CDs? Any cartridge medium is likely to be new and proprietary too - so there's not really a strong argument against the UMD. And as for the "carry round" a memeory card. Put it in the slot in the machine and forget about it - what's the issue?
>-Which leads me to my next point the media is new
>and only for the PSP. I have to buy the same
>movie twice if I want to watch it on my PSP.
Yeah, agreed. But what would you prefer, they drop movie capability (which I think they should do) or include a hard drive? Then is would cost an arm and a leg - you seen the price of the Archos AV-420, and that can't even play games.
>I were able to copy movies I own onto a 1.7 gig
>mini DVD-R it would be a different story but this
Yeah! Agreed. That prolly would have been the best route for them to take...
>-MP3's are a nice feature and from what I
>understand you can load the music on a memory
>stick people who own a PSP will probably use this
>feature but I also suspect if you can afford one
>(initially at least) you probably already own a
>IPod which can hold more and probably indexes
>music better.
This remains to be seen, but there's really no reason to expect that the PSP will be any worse at indexing music than iPod. Apple have shown the way, and all Sony has to do is copy iTunes features - plus they have a much better screen fro navigation, visualisations etc. But I agree that it won't "kill" iPod, there will still be those (me included) for shom size/capacity ratio is the major criterion for choosing an MP3 player.
>BATTERY
>- unless they improve this I hear 2 hours for a
>movie and 6 hours max depending on the game(I
>heard 10 hours for MP3's)
But these are about industry standard. My iPod doesn't get better than six hours, most of the personal DVD players just manage a couple hours. The six hours for games isn't exemplary, but it's not hideously bad. It'll see me on a train to London and back, or (with no electronic items windows at both end, and a meal break, a flight from London to New York.
>MARKET
>-I hear all this talk a bout a new market. Truth
>is a I see the PSP bringing in some new people
>but not enough to break through.
This will definitely be the big test. Thing is all the analysts are predicting a big growth in portable MP3 player, mobile gaming devices, and portable movie devices. PSP is all three, so logic suggest that unless Sony have messed up big style, it should enjoy some of all of these growing markets.
>-Games-This is the PSP's technical shining point,
>a brilliant screen, incredible handheld graphics,
>analog controlbut the battery will be drained by
>those features.
This has always been the issue. The Game Boy's battery life was OK, but then it was puching three black pixels around a screen the size of a thumbnail.
Gamegear or Lynx battery life was much worse. If it manages six hours, I think it will be perfectly adequate. Not great, but not terrible either.
>The PSP is an awesome home console to handheld
>machine that will provide minimal loss in quality
>but a mediocre all in one machine.
I feel this way about all such devices. They should do what they do best. But the holy grail of the hand-held market is still an all in one machine. Sony will have doen a LOT of research before they decided to take this route.
>I saw someone blow off
>backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't
>underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it
>was one of the features that helped propel the
>PS2
It was me who dismissed backwards compatibility. And the reason was, every so often here is a paradigm shift. And when this happens, I think backward compatibility is redundant. Take PS1, if it had been able to play Megadrive games, do you think anyone would have cared? Ridge Racer was soo much better than any MD driving game that no-one woul dhave ever used the backwards comptibility. My point is that no ones wants a DS to play Tetris (even though it would rock for Tetris)
>The DS can also play MP3's via a GBA add on and
Yeah, but everyone's complaining about having to "carry around" a memory card for PSP, so it's not fair to then propose carrying around an add-on for DS.
>it can also play movies--but that is a hack.
Not only is it a hack, but it doesn't have the medium to carry a full feature film.
>Well that is for starters I have more to say if
>anyone replies.
There you go. I'm not really disagreeing with you, just that there are multiple perspectives. PSP might tank. But (and this was all my point was originally) I don't think price will be the reason why it does> That and anyone who casually dismisses Sony as incapable of taking on Nintendo is ignoring what recent history has taught us.
>This reminds of the days when people bickered
>about the SNES and Genesis. Ahh the memories!!!
Holy wars.
>Anyways I think the PSP will have high initial
>sales and eventually fade.
Hmm, I think kinda the opposite. I think there will be resistance to the inital price, there'll be OK initial sales: early adopters, Sony fetishists, tech-junkies, mooching journos who fail to blag one etc. But I think mainstreat adoption won't happen until after people see it in the hands of their tech-fetishist friends, and Son'y's marketing campaign, which is bound to be HUGE, kicks in.
>PRICE
>-The PSP has to really justify any price point
>over 250 dollars for a handheld.
I hear this, and I still can't believe it. In real terms, the PSP is LESS than the Game Boy cost at launch. And it is significantly more technically advanced than any other handheld.
>Handhelds are
>different than consoles you can drop them you can
>leave them on the bus the screen can get
>scratched or cracked, buttons can stick and when
>things go wrong your only option is to replace
>the whole thing not just a controller ir what
>not.
Yeah, but for the sticky button stuff there's a warranty, and for leaving on the bus there's insurance or just being more careful. Most everyone in the UK is carting £250 of phone with them, and those same issues don't worry them about that.
>MEDIA
>- too many this is a strong point it can hold a
>lot more then the DS(this is a good thing) it
>enables CG sequences in games with much more ease
>and other benefits BUT they can scratch you need
>to carry around a memory card in order to save
>the game and they chew battery power(the motor
>for the UMD-ROM).
I'm ambivalent on the medium. True it's a new format, but what do you want, it to take CDs? Any cartridge medium is likely to be new and proprietary too - so there's not really a strong argument against the UMD. And as for the "carry round" a memeory card. Put it in the slot in the machine and forget about it - what's the issue?
>-Which leads me to my next point the media is new
>and only for the PSP. I have to buy the same
>movie twice if I want to watch it on my PSP.
Yeah, agreed. But what would you prefer, they drop movie capability (which I think they should do) or include a hard drive? Then is would cost an arm and a leg - you seen the price of the Archos AV-420, and that can't even play games.
>I were able to copy movies I own onto a 1.7 gig
>mini DVD-R it would be a different story but this
Yeah! Agreed. That prolly would have been the best route for them to take...
>-MP3's are a nice feature and from what I
>understand you can load the music on a memory
>stick people who own a PSP will probably use this
>feature but I also suspect if you can afford one
>(initially at least) you probably already own a
>IPod which can hold more and probably indexes
>music better.
This remains to be seen, but there's really no reason to expect that the PSP will be any worse at indexing music than iPod. Apple have shown the way, and all Sony has to do is copy iTunes features - plus they have a much better screen fro navigation, visualisations etc. But I agree that it won't "kill" iPod, there will still be those (me included) for shom size/capacity ratio is the major criterion for choosing an MP3 player.
>BATTERY
>- unless they improve this I hear 2 hours for a
>movie and 6 hours max depending on the game(I
>heard 10 hours for MP3's)
But these are about industry standard. My iPod doesn't get better than six hours, most of the personal DVD players just manage a couple hours. The six hours for games isn't exemplary, but it's not hideously bad. It'll see me on a train to London and back, or (with no electronic items windows at both end, and a meal break, a flight from London to New York.
>MARKET
>-I hear all this talk a bout a new market. Truth
>is a I see the PSP bringing in some new people
>but not enough to break through.
This will definitely be the big test. Thing is all the analysts are predicting a big growth in portable MP3 player, mobile gaming devices, and portable movie devices. PSP is all three, so logic suggest that unless Sony have messed up big style, it should enjoy some of all of these growing markets.
>-Games-This is the PSP's technical shining point,
>a brilliant screen, incredible handheld graphics,
>analog controlbut the battery will be drained by
>those features.
This has always been the issue. The Game Boy's battery life was OK, but then it was puching three black pixels around a screen the size of a thumbnail.
Gamegear or Lynx battery life was much worse. If it manages six hours, I think it will be perfectly adequate. Not great, but not terrible either.
>The PSP is an awesome home console to handheld
>machine that will provide minimal loss in quality
>but a mediocre all in one machine.
I feel this way about all such devices. They should do what they do best. But the holy grail of the hand-held market is still an all in one machine. Sony will have doen a LOT of research before they decided to take this route.
>I saw someone blow off
>backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't
>underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it
>was one of the features that helped propel the
>PS2
It was me who dismissed backwards compatibility. And the reason was, every so often here is a paradigm shift. And when this happens, I think backward compatibility is redundant. Take PS1, if it had been able to play Megadrive games, do you think anyone would have cared? Ridge Racer was soo much better than any MD driving game that no-one woul dhave ever used the backwards comptibility. My point is that no ones wants a DS to play Tetris (even though it would rock for Tetris)
>The DS can also play MP3's via a GBA add on and
Yeah, but everyone's complaining about having to "carry around" a memory card for PSP, so it's not fair to then propose carrying around an add-on for DS.
>it can also play movies--but that is a hack.
Not only is it a hack, but it doesn't have the medium to carry a full feature film.
>Well that is for starters I have more to say if
>anyone replies.
There you go. I'm not really disagreeing with you, just that there are multiple perspectives. PSP might tank. But (and this was all my point was originally) I don't think price will be the reason why it does> That and anyone who casually dismisses Sony as incapable of taking on Nintendo is ignoring what recent history has taught us.
Kaxxx 24 Sep 2004 09:33
40/55
Some fantastic points there Doctor Dee. :D
What i would like to add is that Sony can bring something to the market that Nintendo have declined to do so far and that is adult orientated games. TBH im sick to death looking at piss poor twee games come out on the SP. Dont get me wrong, im a huge fan of the SPs style and look and love certain titles on it such Zelda, Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force etc but outside of this is a huge mound of childish crap. But at the end of the day Nintendo markets towards this audience and it pays them well.
Im sceptical however that an older audience can provide the profits that Sony will need and i suppose thats maybe the biggest if in the tank. Sure it will attract the 'disposable income' generation that buys the ipod but wether or not that will be enough im not sure. Kids parents buy loads of games for them these days, i think my nephew has about 15 games or so. What i cant see is a part of the market for the PSP investing this much money into it. Certainly i think that alot of parents will buy their kids DS's due to the Nintendo image of goreless family games. Wether these kids will leap into PSP is one thing,wether we want them is another.
The DS will provide some classic titles such as the usual mario franchises and Metroid etc etc but i doubt we will see more darker titles that the PSP will no doubt have available.
For myself i know at the end of the day i will own both systems, maybe not at the same time but thats the way ive always been with systems. DS is very attractive to me but if it does go GBA in terms of very twee games then im heading to Sony.
What i would like to add is that Sony can bring something to the market that Nintendo have declined to do so far and that is adult orientated games. TBH im sick to death looking at piss poor twee games come out on the SP. Dont get me wrong, im a huge fan of the SPs style and look and love certain titles on it such Zelda, Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force etc but outside of this is a huge mound of childish crap. But at the end of the day Nintendo markets towards this audience and it pays them well.
Im sceptical however that an older audience can provide the profits that Sony will need and i suppose thats maybe the biggest if in the tank. Sure it will attract the 'disposable income' generation that buys the ipod but wether or not that will be enough im not sure. Kids parents buy loads of games for them these days, i think my nephew has about 15 games or so. What i cant see is a part of the market for the PSP investing this much money into it. Certainly i think that alot of parents will buy their kids DS's due to the Nintendo image of goreless family games. Wether these kids will leap into PSP is one thing,wether we want them is another.
The DS will provide some classic titles such as the usual mario franchises and Metroid etc etc but i doubt we will see more darker titles that the PSP will no doubt have available.
For myself i know at the end of the day i will own both systems, maybe not at the same time but thats the way ive always been with systems. DS is very attractive to me but if it does go GBA in terms of very twee games then im heading to Sony.
config 24 Sep 2004 11:57
41/55
DoctorDee wrote:
>redspear wrote:
>>I saw someone blow off
>>backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't
>>underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it
>>was one of the features that helped propel the
>>PS2
>
>It was me who dismissed backwards compatibility.
>And the reason was, every so often here is a
>paradigm shift. And when this happens, I think
>backward compatibility is redundant. Take PS1, if
>it had been able to play Megadrive games, do you
>think anyone would have cared? Ridge Racer was
>soo much better than any MD driving game that
>no-one woul dhave ever used the backwards
>comptibility. My point is that no ones wants a DS
>to play Tetris (even though it would rock for
>Tetris)
I have a PS2 and a heap of PS1 games. I even bought Syphon Filter 2 after upgrading for PS1 to 2. It almost hurt my eyes to play the game :) Aside from the visual side, I found it too slow and clunky - maybe the game, maybe the technological constraints it was built within.
The only other time I've gone back to PS1 was to play Tomb Raider 1 & 2 after a debate on the TR UseNet group about which was better.
The point being, how many people cared about backward compatability, and out of them, how many actually used it?
The DS is going to "suffer" in the same way. It's far more advanced than the GBA, and the majority of player will very soon drift away from any thought of playing GBA/GBC/GB games on it.
>redspear wrote:
>>I saw someone blow off
>>backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't
>>underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it
>>was one of the features that helped propel the
>>PS2
>
>It was me who dismissed backwards compatibility.
>And the reason was, every so often here is a
>paradigm shift. And when this happens, I think
>backward compatibility is redundant. Take PS1, if
>it had been able to play Megadrive games, do you
>think anyone would have cared? Ridge Racer was
>soo much better than any MD driving game that
>no-one woul dhave ever used the backwards
>comptibility. My point is that no ones wants a DS
>to play Tetris (even though it would rock for
>Tetris)
I have a PS2 and a heap of PS1 games. I even bought Syphon Filter 2 after upgrading for PS1 to 2. It almost hurt my eyes to play the game :) Aside from the visual side, I found it too slow and clunky - maybe the game, maybe the technological constraints it was built within.
The only other time I've gone back to PS1 was to play Tomb Raider 1 & 2 after a debate on the TR UseNet group about which was better.
The point being, how many people cared about backward compatability, and out of them, how many actually used it?
The DS is going to "suffer" in the same way. It's far more advanced than the GBA, and the majority of player will very soon drift away from any thought of playing GBA/GBC/GB games on it.
NiktheGreek 24 Sep 2004 12:37
42/55
config wrote:
>I have a PS2 and a
>heap of PS1 games. I even bought Syphon Filter 2
>after upgrading for PS1 to 2. It almost hurt my
>eyes to play the game :) Aside from the visual
>side, I found it too slow and clunky - maybe the
>game, maybe the technological constraints it was
>built within.
>The only other time I've gone
>back to PS1 was to play Tomb Raider 1 & 2 after a
>debate on the TR UseNet group about which was
>better.
>The point being, how many people cared
>about backward compatability, and out of them,
>how many actually used it?
Good point. Generally I do use the PS2's backwards compatibility, but when I look at the games I'm playing it's not difficult to see why. See, I'm playing 2D games - Metal Slug X, Bust-A-Move 4 and Street Fighter Alpha 3. Looking at the PS2 incarnations of each, they're very similar - the gameplay hasn't significantly dated as compared to newer entries in the series, and these games are some of the best examples of 2D graphics. They don't feel hideous and dated because they're pretty much the same products as they're selling today, coming later in the evolution of 2D games.
By comparison, 3D PS1 games are early examples of what developers would do with such environments, and it shows. Tomb Raider feels fiddly and unrefined, Actua Soccer is twitchy and basic, and Tekken now feels limited and restrictive. It's only the very best examples of PS1 games that still hold up today - Metal Gear Solid, Wipeout 3: Special Edition, Final Fantasy 7.
I guess that it's partially because in terms of 2D, the Playstation was really the final evolution. Yes, the Saturn handled it better with the back-up RAM for extra animations and the Dreamcast has the lovely hi-res Guilty Gear X, but 2D gameplay had pretty much evolved fully, and the graphics had peaked (besides that higher resolution, of course).
The DS backwards compatibility will prove useful for a while, simply whilst developers get to grips with the new functions it offers (though I'd expect the original 3D games to be a bit more quickly refined, given that most developers have had time to experiment with that extra dimension now). But when the 3D games get good, will we be playing GBA Doom or F-Zero anymore? Probably not. If anything, we'll likely be playing Street Fighter Alpha 3, Metal Slug Advance and Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo.
>I have a PS2 and a
>heap of PS1 games. I even bought Syphon Filter 2
>after upgrading for PS1 to 2. It almost hurt my
>eyes to play the game :) Aside from the visual
>side, I found it too slow and clunky - maybe the
>game, maybe the technological constraints it was
>built within.
>The only other time I've gone
>back to PS1 was to play Tomb Raider 1 & 2 after a
>debate on the TR UseNet group about which was
>better.
>The point being, how many people cared
>about backward compatability, and out of them,
>how many actually used it?
Good point. Generally I do use the PS2's backwards compatibility, but when I look at the games I'm playing it's not difficult to see why. See, I'm playing 2D games - Metal Slug X, Bust-A-Move 4 and Street Fighter Alpha 3. Looking at the PS2 incarnations of each, they're very similar - the gameplay hasn't significantly dated as compared to newer entries in the series, and these games are some of the best examples of 2D graphics. They don't feel hideous and dated because they're pretty much the same products as they're selling today, coming later in the evolution of 2D games.
By comparison, 3D PS1 games are early examples of what developers would do with such environments, and it shows. Tomb Raider feels fiddly and unrefined, Actua Soccer is twitchy and basic, and Tekken now feels limited and restrictive. It's only the very best examples of PS1 games that still hold up today - Metal Gear Solid, Wipeout 3: Special Edition, Final Fantasy 7.
I guess that it's partially because in terms of 2D, the Playstation was really the final evolution. Yes, the Saturn handled it better with the back-up RAM for extra animations and the Dreamcast has the lovely hi-res Guilty Gear X, but 2D gameplay had pretty much evolved fully, and the graphics had peaked (besides that higher resolution, of course).
The DS backwards compatibility will prove useful for a while, simply whilst developers get to grips with the new functions it offers (though I'd expect the original 3D games to be a bit more quickly refined, given that most developers have had time to experiment with that extra dimension now). But when the 3D games get good, will we be playing GBA Doom or F-Zero anymore? Probably not. If anything, we'll likely be playing Street Fighter Alpha 3, Metal Slug Advance and Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo.
DoctorDee 24 Sep 2004 13:04
43/55
Kaxxx wrote:
>The DS will provide some classic titles such as
>the usual mario franchises and Metroid etc etc
>but i doubt we will see more darker titles that
>the PSP will no doubt have available.
That's likely to be true. But Nintendo won't thank you for pointing it out. They are very aware of the "kiddie" reputation they have, which is in part why the GBASP is designed the way it is.
Nintendo was very focussed on changing this reputation and were actively courting developers and publishers for like Resident Evil and GTA for Gamecube. Thing is Gamecube support ran out before they got chance to shrug the reputation. But they'll be trying hard, with DS and Revolution, to attract older gamers. Simply because old farts like me that have been playing games for nearly 30 year are still buying and playing, so the adult market is becoming more significant.
There is every chance that DS and PSP can co-exist, particularly if the market is expanding as projected by the analysts. Maybe with DS being the choice for kids, and PSP being the choice of adults, who want to be able to watch porn on the move ;-)
>The DS will provide some classic titles such as
>the usual mario franchises and Metroid etc etc
>but i doubt we will see more darker titles that
>the PSP will no doubt have available.
That's likely to be true. But Nintendo won't thank you for pointing it out. They are very aware of the "kiddie" reputation they have, which is in part why the GBASP is designed the way it is.
Nintendo was very focussed on changing this reputation and were actively courting developers and publishers for like Resident Evil and GTA for Gamecube. Thing is Gamecube support ran out before they got chance to shrug the reputation. But they'll be trying hard, with DS and Revolution, to attract older gamers. Simply because old farts like me that have been playing games for nearly 30 year are still buying and playing, so the adult market is becoming more significant.
There is every chance that DS and PSP can co-exist, particularly if the market is expanding as projected by the analysts. Maybe with DS being the choice for kids, and PSP being the choice of adults, who want to be able to watch porn on the move ;-)
Kaxxx 24 Sep 2004 14:44
44/55
>able to watch porn on the move
That will probably end up more true than you think Doc. N-gage sites are full of downloadable real media porn clips.
I have alot of mates who own PS2s but they are PS2 fans in the most loosest of terms. Basically they own the PS2 for its football titles and nothing else really. These guys will never own a PSP though, they would never want to and there are many like them. This is a market i dont think Sony will be able to transfer to their handhelds and it will be a huge loss for them in sales initially but i think they will attract older GBA owners and thats where Nintendo will have to watch. But Nintendo have Zelda and the like on their side and this makes their handhelds a must for serious players. It will be a intersting year to say the least.
That will probably end up more true than you think Doc. N-gage sites are full of downloadable real media porn clips.
I have alot of mates who own PS2s but they are PS2 fans in the most loosest of terms. Basically they own the PS2 for its football titles and nothing else really. These guys will never own a PSP though, they would never want to and there are many like them. This is a market i dont think Sony will be able to transfer to their handhelds and it will be a huge loss for them in sales initially but i think they will attract older GBA owners and thats where Nintendo will have to watch. But Nintendo have Zelda and the like on their side and this makes their handhelds a must for serious players. It will be a intersting year to say the least.
config 24 Sep 2004 18:39
45/55
Kaxxx wrote:
DoctorDee wrote:
able to watch porn on the move
That will probably end up more true than you think Doc. N-gage sites are full of downloadable real media porn clips.
Eeeew. Man spooge could really make a mess of the keypad. God knows picket lints is bad enough...
redspear 25 Sep 2004 00:37
46/55
DoctorDee wrote:
redspear wrote:
>This reminds of the days when people bickered
>about the SNES and Genesis. Ahh the memories!!!
Holy wars.
Yeah, great times. I owned both systems and would play both sides of the fence.
>Anyways I think the PSP will have high initial
>sales and eventually fade.
Hmm, I think kinda the opposite. I think there will be resistance to the inital price, there'll be OK initial sales: early adopters, Sony fetishists, tech-junkies, mooching journos who fail to blag one etc. But I think mainstreat adoption won't happen until after people see it in the hands of their tech-fetishist friends, and Son'y's marketing campaign, which is bound to be HUGE, kicks in.
See I think that the people who really want one will rush out and get it the first week it comes out and then sales will cool steadily over time, unless there is a major price cut(which you take a different stand on). I have a different viewpoint
>PRICE
>-The PSP has to really justify any price point
>over 250 dollars for a handheld.
I hear this, and I still can't believe it. In real terms, the PSP is LESS than the Game Boy cost at launch. And it is significantly more technically advanced than any other handheld.
The Super NES was released for $249(I bought it the day it came out). The Sega Genesis cost me $199 after a price cut. After accounting for inflation those would be a lot more expensive then todays home consoles. Also it was the cheapest true portable game system the techinicaly superior Turbo Express cost $299(the true equivelent to the PSP for its time...minus the sony name and the main console was not dominating) and died a horrible death.
>Handhelds are
>different than consoles you can drop them you can
>leave them on the bus the screen can get
>scratched or cracked, buttons can stick and when
>things go wrong your only option is to replace
>the whole thing not just a controller ir what
>not.
Yeah, but for the sticky button stuff there's a warranty, and for leaving on the bus there's insurance or just being more careful. Most everyone in the UK is carting £250 of phone with them, and those same issues don't worry them about that.
Phones are also a utility and smaller then the PSP or even the DS for that matter. Also at least in the states we only really pay about 100 american dollars for a phone after rebates.
>MEDIA
>- too many this is a strong point it can hold a
>lot more then the DS(this is a good thing) it
>enables CG sequences in games with much more ease
>and other benefits BUT they can scratch you need
>to carry around a memory card in order to save
>the game and they chew battery power(the motor
>for the UMD-ROM).
I'm ambivalent on the medium. True it's a new format, but what do you want, it to take CDs? Any cartridge medium is likely to be new and proprietary too - so there's not really a strong argument against the UMD. And as for the "carry round" a memeory card. Put it in the slot in the machine and forget about it - what's the issue?
As I said mini DVD-R
>-Which leads me to my next point the media is new
>and only for the PSP. I have to buy the same
>movie twice if I want to watch it on my PSP.
Yeah, agreed. But what would you prefer, they drop movie capability (which I think they should do) or include a hard drive? Then is would cost an arm and a leg - you seen the price of the Archos AV-420, and that can't even play games.
No, cut the movie feature, enable playback from the memory stick(I will explain later) or use the mini DVD-R format(my preference)
>I were able to copy movies I own onto a 1.7 gig
>mini DVD-R it would be a different story but this
Yeah! Agreed. That prolly would have been the best route for them to take...
>-MP3's are a nice feature and from what I
>understand you can load the music on a memory
>stick people who own a PSP will probably use this
>feature but I also suspect if you can afford one
>(initially at least) you probably already own a
>IPod which can hold more and probably indexes
>music better.
This remains to be seen, but there's really no reason to expect that the PSP will be any worse at indexing music than iPod. Apple have shown the way, and all Sony has to do is copy iTunes features - plus they have a much better screen fro navigation, visualisations etc. But I agree that it won't "kill" iPod, there will still be those (me included) for shom size/capacity ratio is the major criterion for choosing an MP3 player.
In the end this feature is a nice add on the will be used but only infrequently.
>BATTERY
>- unless they improve this I hear 2 hours for a
>movie and 6 hours max depending on the game(I
>heard 10 hours for MP3's)
But these are about industry standard. My iPod doesn't get better than six hours, most of the personal DVD players just manage a couple hours. The six hours for games isn't exemplary, but it's not hideously bad. It'll see me on a train to London and back, or (with no electronic items windows at both end, and a meal break, a flight from London to New York.
In my opinion 6 hours is fine but only if that is the average game time. I hae a feeling that programmers will be loading CG sequences which will eat the battery(Direct stream CG= Movie playback). Also processor intensity will use more battery I suspect in the end the battery will run on average 3-4 hours for a real game.
>MARKET
>-I hear all this talk a bout a new market. Truth
>is a I see the PSP bringing in some new people
>but not enough to break through.
This will definitely be the big test. Thing is all the analysts are predicting a big growth in portable MP3 player, mobile gaming devices, and portable movie devices. PSP is all three, so logic suggest that unless Sony have messed up big style, it should enjoy some of all of these growing markets.
I agree this is the real test. As I said I expect a bit of breakthrough but from my stand point I just don't see it really grabbing hold. This will have the best showing of any handheld ever made with the exception of one line and maybe the DS(which I see as the GBA2).
>-Games-This is the PSP's technical shining point,
>a brilliant screen, incredible handheld graphics,
>analog controlbut the battery will be drained by
>those features.
This has always been the issue. The Game Boy's battery life was OK, but then it was puching three black pixels around a screen the size of a thumbnail.
Gamegear or Lynx battery life was much worse. If it manages six hours, I think it will be perfectly adequate. Not great, but not terrible either.
The battery is still a question mark, in real world use I mentioned my estimates but that is only from what I read so far.. I will agree to a wait and see on this. Anything under 4 hours game time and I don't think it will bode well 4-6 is fine 6-8 will be great 8+ incredible
>The PSP is an awesome home console to handheld
>machine that will provide minimal loss in quality
>but a mediocre all in one machine.
I feel this way about all such devices. They should do what they do best. But the holy grail of the hand-held market is still an all in one machine. Sony will have doen a LOT of research before they decided to take this route.
Yeah but sometimes these all in ones end up feeling tacked on. Still props to sony for making a graphic powerhouse for portables.
>I saw someone blow off
>backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't
>underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it
>was one of the features that helped propel the
>PS2
It was me who dismissed backwards compatibility. And the reason was, every so often here is a paradigm shift. And when this happens, I think backward compatibility is redundant. Take PS1, if it had been able to play Megadrive games, do you think anyone would have cared? Ridge Racer was soo much better than any MD driving game that no-one woul dhave ever used the backwards comptibility. My point is that no ones wants a DS to play Tetris (even though it would rock for Tetris)
But the backwards compatabilty makes people more comfortable about the initial purchase that is all I am saying. It doesn't make much of a difference 2 years down the line.
>The DS can also play MP3's via a GBA add on and
Yeah, but everyone's complaining about having to "carry around" a memory card for PSP, so it's not fair to then propose carrying around an add-on for DS.
Only pointing out the option is there if you really wanted it.
>it can also play movies--but that is a hack.
Not only is it a hack, but it doesn't have the medium to carry a full feature film.
I have fit full length features on a 1 GB sony memory stick-XVID codec low bit rate low resolution(the bit rate per pixel is what counts especially on smaller screens) which is good for small screens. The DS uses a variation of the SD card if I remember correctly so it is only a matter of time before an adapter is released(there is one for the GBA already but the GBA can only really handle about 15FPS with a DIVX codec) I feel the DS and PSP should fair better. Memory stcks and ROMS do not eat the battery like Discs so I can shose to watch a movie then play a game. Since the DS uses ARM processors I see a hack or maybe a actual legitamite add on for that first.
>Well that is for starters I have more to say if
>anyone replies.
There you go. I'm not really disagreeing with you, just that there are multiple perspectives. PSP might tank. But (and this was all my point was originally) I don't think price will be the reason why it does> That and anyone who casually dismisses Sony as incapable of taking on Nintendo is ignoring what recent history has taught us.
>This reminds of the days when people bickered
>about the SNES and Genesis. Ahh the memories!!!
Holy wars.
Yeah, great times. I owned both systems and would play both sides of the fence.
>Anyways I think the PSP will have high initial
>sales and eventually fade.
Hmm, I think kinda the opposite. I think there will be resistance to the inital price, there'll be OK initial sales: early adopters, Sony fetishists, tech-junkies, mooching journos who fail to blag one etc. But I think mainstreat adoption won't happen until after people see it in the hands of their tech-fetishist friends, and Son'y's marketing campaign, which is bound to be HUGE, kicks in.
See I think that the people who really want one will rush out and get it the first week it comes out and then sales will cool steadily over time, unless there is a major price cut(which you take a different stand on). I have a different viewpoint
>PRICE
>-The PSP has to really justify any price point
>over 250 dollars for a handheld.
I hear this, and I still can't believe it. In real terms, the PSP is LESS than the Game Boy cost at launch. And it is significantly more technically advanced than any other handheld.
The Super NES was released for $249(I bought it the day it came out). The Sega Genesis cost me $199 after a price cut. After accounting for inflation those would be a lot more expensive then todays home consoles. Also it was the cheapest true portable game system the techinicaly superior Turbo Express cost $299(the true equivelent to the PSP for its time...minus the sony name and the main console was not dominating) and died a horrible death.
>Handhelds are
>different than consoles you can drop them you can
>leave them on the bus the screen can get
>scratched or cracked, buttons can stick and when
>things go wrong your only option is to replace
>the whole thing not just a controller ir what
>not.
Yeah, but for the sticky button stuff there's a warranty, and for leaving on the bus there's insurance or just being more careful. Most everyone in the UK is carting £250 of phone with them, and those same issues don't worry them about that.
Phones are also a utility and smaller then the PSP or even the DS for that matter. Also at least in the states we only really pay about 100 american dollars for a phone after rebates.
>MEDIA
>- too many this is a strong point it can hold a
>lot more then the DS(this is a good thing) it
>enables CG sequences in games with much more ease
>and other benefits BUT they can scratch you need
>to carry around a memory card in order to save
>the game and they chew battery power(the motor
>for the UMD-ROM).
I'm ambivalent on the medium. True it's a new format, but what do you want, it to take CDs? Any cartridge medium is likely to be new and proprietary too - so there's not really a strong argument against the UMD. And as for the "carry round" a memeory card. Put it in the slot in the machine and forget about it - what's the issue?
As I said mini DVD-R
>-Which leads me to my next point the media is new
>and only for the PSP. I have to buy the same
>movie twice if I want to watch it on my PSP.
Yeah, agreed. But what would you prefer, they drop movie capability (which I think they should do) or include a hard drive? Then is would cost an arm and a leg - you seen the price of the Archos AV-420, and that can't even play games.
No, cut the movie feature, enable playback from the memory stick(I will explain later) or use the mini DVD-R format(my preference)
>I were able to copy movies I own onto a 1.7 gig
>mini DVD-R it would be a different story but this
Yeah! Agreed. That prolly would have been the best route for them to take...
>-MP3's are a nice feature and from what I
>understand you can load the music on a memory
>stick people who own a PSP will probably use this
>feature but I also suspect if you can afford one
>(initially at least) you probably already own a
>IPod which can hold more and probably indexes
>music better.
This remains to be seen, but there's really no reason to expect that the PSP will be any worse at indexing music than iPod. Apple have shown the way, and all Sony has to do is copy iTunes features - plus they have a much better screen fro navigation, visualisations etc. But I agree that it won't "kill" iPod, there will still be those (me included) for shom size/capacity ratio is the major criterion for choosing an MP3 player.
In the end this feature is a nice add on the will be used but only infrequently.
>BATTERY
>- unless they improve this I hear 2 hours for a
>movie and 6 hours max depending on the game(I
>heard 10 hours for MP3's)
But these are about industry standard. My iPod doesn't get better than six hours, most of the personal DVD players just manage a couple hours. The six hours for games isn't exemplary, but it's not hideously bad. It'll see me on a train to London and back, or (with no electronic items windows at both end, and a meal break, a flight from London to New York.
In my opinion 6 hours is fine but only if that is the average game time. I hae a feeling that programmers will be loading CG sequences which will eat the battery(Direct stream CG= Movie playback). Also processor intensity will use more battery I suspect in the end the battery will run on average 3-4 hours for a real game.
>MARKET
>-I hear all this talk a bout a new market. Truth
>is a I see the PSP bringing in some new people
>but not enough to break through.
This will definitely be the big test. Thing is all the analysts are predicting a big growth in portable MP3 player, mobile gaming devices, and portable movie devices. PSP is all three, so logic suggest that unless Sony have messed up big style, it should enjoy some of all of these growing markets.
I agree this is the real test. As I said I expect a bit of breakthrough but from my stand point I just don't see it really grabbing hold. This will have the best showing of any handheld ever made with the exception of one line and maybe the DS(which I see as the GBA2).
>-Games-This is the PSP's technical shining point,
>a brilliant screen, incredible handheld graphics,
>analog controlbut the battery will be drained by
>those features.
This has always been the issue. The Game Boy's battery life was OK, but then it was puching three black pixels around a screen the size of a thumbnail.
Gamegear or Lynx battery life was much worse. If it manages six hours, I think it will be perfectly adequate. Not great, but not terrible either.
The battery is still a question mark, in real world use I mentioned my estimates but that is only from what I read so far.. I will agree to a wait and see on this. Anything under 4 hours game time and I don't think it will bode well 4-6 is fine 6-8 will be great 8+ incredible
>The PSP is an awesome home console to handheld
>machine that will provide minimal loss in quality
>but a mediocre all in one machine.
I feel this way about all such devices. They should do what they do best. But the holy grail of the hand-held market is still an all in one machine. Sony will have doen a LOT of research before they decided to take this route.
Yeah but sometimes these all in ones end up feeling tacked on. Still props to sony for making a graphic powerhouse for portables.
>I saw someone blow off
>backwards compatabilty with the DS but don't
>underestimate it lots of peope own GBA's and it
>was one of the features that helped propel the
>PS2
It was me who dismissed backwards compatibility. And the reason was, every so often here is a paradigm shift. And when this happens, I think backward compatibility is redundant. Take PS1, if it had been able to play Megadrive games, do you think anyone would have cared? Ridge Racer was soo much better than any MD driving game that no-one woul dhave ever used the backwards comptibility. My point is that no ones wants a DS to play Tetris (even though it would rock for Tetris)
But the backwards compatabilty makes people more comfortable about the initial purchase that is all I am saying. It doesn't make much of a difference 2 years down the line.
>The DS can also play MP3's via a GBA add on and
Yeah, but everyone's complaining about having to "carry around" a memory card for PSP, so it's not fair to then propose carrying around an add-on for DS.
Only pointing out the option is there if you really wanted it.
>it can also play movies--but that is a hack.
Not only is it a hack, but it doesn't have the medium to carry a full feature film.
I have fit full length features on a 1 GB sony memory stick-XVID codec low bit rate low resolution(the bit rate per pixel is what counts especially on smaller screens) which is good for small screens. The DS uses a variation of the SD card if I remember correctly so it is only a matter of time before an adapter is released(there is one for the GBA already but the GBA can only really handle about 15FPS with a DIVX codec) I feel the DS and PSP should fair better. Memory stcks and ROMS do not eat the battery like Discs so I can shose to watch a movie then play a game. Since the DS uses ARM processors I see a hack or maybe a actual legitamite add on for that first.
>Well that is for starters I have more to say if
>anyone replies.
There you go. I'm not really disagreeing with you, just that there are multiple perspectives. PSP might tank. But (and this was all my point was originally) I don't think price will be the reason why it does> That and anyone who casually dismisses Sony as incapable of taking on Nintendo is ignoring what recent history has taught us.
I have a feeling the PSP is going to fizzle not exactly tank. No one here knows what will happen(not even Sony). Sony is no longer the new kid on the block when I read these messages all I see is paraphrasing(SONY powerhouse console can do no wrong will clean NINTENDO's clock) or (NINTENDO powerhouse handheld maker nothing can touch them).
Well I am thinkng the DS will be sucessful but not because it is so much Nintendo but beacause it comes out months in advance and it is cheaper.
I do not discount Sony but I think it is fair to say that Sony should have released it earlier(this Holiday) or later(Next Holiday) but we will see.
DoctorDee 25 Sep 2004 06:28
47/55
redspear wrote:
Sony is no longer the new kid on the block
On the contrary, where mobile gaming is concerned Sony IS the new kid on the block.
redspear wrote:
when I read these messages all I see is paraphrasing(SONY powerhouse console can do no wrong will clean NINTENDO's clock) or (NINTENDO powerhouse handheld maker nothing can touch them).
THat might be whgat some people are saying. But all I'm saying is that you can't discount Sony on price alone, you have to consider a number of other factors.
redspear wrote:
Well I am thinkng the DS will be sucessful but not because it is so much Nintendo but beacause it comes out months in advance and it is cheaper.
Didn't help Saturn. Didn't help Dreamcast. Might not be decisive this time around.
redspear wrote:
I think it is fair to say that Sony should have released it earlier(this Holiday) or later(Next Holiday)
I think, if there was anything Sony could have done to get it out before this Christmas, they would have done. They have obviously hit development or production problems that have prevented that. On the other hand, once it's ready, there's no way they'll wait any longer then they have to to launch it.
redspear 25 Sep 2004 22:59
48/55
On the contrary, where mobile gaming is concerned Sony IS the new kid on the block.
But not to Video games a lot of people assume that the name alone will sell this product where with the original PS people where speculative as to whether a Consumer Electronics company could compete with Sega and Nintendo.
THat might be whgat some people are saying. But all I'm saying is that you can't discount Sony on price alone, you have to consider a number of other factors.
Of course you have to Consider the whole picture but price will always be a major factor. Case in point the 3DO and Neo Geo. the 3DO had massive hype but also had a massive price tag(700 dollars). If it cost half as much as it did it may have actually gather a more significant following.
Didn't help Saturn. Didn't help Dreamcast. Might not be decisive this time around.
The Saturn was 400 dollars when released it was released early with not that many playable games. The Dreamcast was poorly marketed but a more of a fair comparision as it was cheaper($199) then the PS2($299) at the release. But neither system had that much support for the US in terms of games.
Price killed the Saturn launch adn then the lack of support for the system because of that
I think, if there was anything Sony could have done to get it out before this Christmas, they would have done. They have obviously hit development or production problems that have prevented that. On the other hand, once it's ready, there's no way they'll wait any longer then they have to to launch it.
But not to Video games a lot of people assume that the name alone will sell this product where with the original PS people where speculative as to whether a Consumer Electronics company could compete with Sega and Nintendo.
THat might be whgat some people are saying. But all I'm saying is that you can't discount Sony on price alone, you have to consider a number of other factors.
Of course you have to Consider the whole picture but price will always be a major factor. Case in point the 3DO and Neo Geo. the 3DO had massive hype but also had a massive price tag(700 dollars). If it cost half as much as it did it may have actually gather a more significant following.
Didn't help Saturn. Didn't help Dreamcast. Might not be decisive this time around.
The Saturn was 400 dollars when released it was released early with not that many playable games. The Dreamcast was poorly marketed but a more of a fair comparision as it was cheaper($199) then the PS2($299) at the release. But neither system had that much support for the US in terms of games.
Price killed the Saturn launch adn then the lack of support for the system because of that
I think, if there was anything Sony could have done to get it out before this Christmas, they would have done. They have obviously hit development or production problems that have prevented that. On the other hand, once it's ready, there's no way they'll wait any longer then they have to to launch it.
Oh I agree if Sony could have released it by this holiday season it would have. What I am saying is if they had waited till next September they would probably sell more off the launch. Prices for the Hardware would be a little cheaper when production started and any remainding Hype from the DS launch would have washed aside as it became the must have electronic gizmo of the Holiday system. From a marketing stand point that makes more sense.
As I said the PSP success rests in the hands of the consumers it is not just price but the price WILL limit who buys one at least initially. The question I ask is how severly will it limit sales
DoctorDee 27 Sep 2004 07:07
49/55
redspear wrote:
The Saturn was 400 dollars when released it was released early with not that many playable games.
That's interesting - but how much was PS1 at launch?
In the UK, Saturn was a year earlier than PS1, and £100 cheaper. But PS1 was so hyped that people opted to "wait and see". And that's what cost Sega the market. Almost the same thing happened with Dreamcast and PS2.
But, all consoles are released with not that many playable games. Time after time manufacturers talk about 20/30 games at launch - and time after time there are only 4/8.
Of course, this was FAR less acceptable from Sega, who were both a hardware manfacturer, and a software developer.
config 27 Sep 2004 09:31
50/55
re: First-to-market consoles
The Saturn was 400 dollars when released it was released early with not that many playable games. The Dreamcast was poorly marketed but a more of a fair comparision as it was cheaper($199) then the PS2($299) at the release.
From where I stand (Europe), Nintendo has done a piss poor marketing job on the N64 and GameCube. It's probably fair to say that the GB/C/A won favour thanks to the right tech/price/software balance and good timing. Personally, I've never liked any of them - I think they've all been technically lacking in the screen department - possibly with the exception of the SP.
If any of the also-rans had acheived a successful balance - plus a reasonable battery life - things may well have been different. Instead, the others failed due to their own shortfalls, leaving the GameBoy the winner by default. More recent attempts to penetrate the handheld market have failed due to lack of visibility to the mass market. Ask Mr Joe Average what a Wonderswan, GamePark 32 or Gizmondo is, and he'll look blankly at you. I really don't think Nintendo has ever had to do a coordinated, sustained marketing campaign on the GB.
With the PSP I think N will have to pull out the stops. Let's hope it does a better job than with the GC and N64.
redspear wrote:
DoctorDee wrote:
Didn't help Saturn. Didn't help Dreamcast. Might not be decisive this time around.
The Saturn was 400 dollars when released it was released early with not that many playable games. The Dreamcast was poorly marketed but a more of a fair comparision as it was cheaper($199) then the PS2($299) at the release.
From where I stand (Europe), Nintendo has done a piss poor marketing job on the N64 and GameCube. It's probably fair to say that the GB/C/A won favour thanks to the right tech/price/software balance and good timing. Personally, I've never liked any of them - I think they've all been technically lacking in the screen department - possibly with the exception of the SP.
If any of the also-rans had acheived a successful balance - plus a reasonable battery life - things may well have been different. Instead, the others failed due to their own shortfalls, leaving the GameBoy the winner by default. More recent attempts to penetrate the handheld market have failed due to lack of visibility to the mass market. Ask Mr Joe Average what a Wonderswan, GamePark 32 or Gizmondo is, and he'll look blankly at you. I really don't think Nintendo has ever had to do a coordinated, sustained marketing campaign on the GB.
With the PSP I think N will have to pull out the stops. Let's hope it does a better job than with the GC and N64.
Kaxxx 27 Sep 2004 09:47
51/55
NOA have been talking about $40 million on marketing it in the US and the EU would need to have a pretty fair amount as well. The SP was advertised well for a while in lifestyle magazines etc which i think gave it a good standing, also the Tribal edition was advertised alot.
I agree though that the N64 and GC's advertising was piss poor and NOE seem to be keep their money than spending it on decent marketing. The DS's success i feel though will also come down to the right software and amount of it.
I agree though that the N64 and GC's advertising was piss poor and NOE seem to be keep their money than spending it on decent marketing. The DS's success i feel though will also come down to the right software and amount of it.
NiktheGreek 27 Sep 2004 18:24
52/55
DoctorDee wrote:
redspear wrote:
The Saturn was 400 dollars when released it was released early with not that many playable games.
That's interesting - but how much was PS1 at launch?
In the UK, Saturn was a year earlier than PS1, and £100 cheaper.
Saturn launched in the UK in 1995 (I think it was August, but can't confirm it), with an RRP of £399. Playstation launched in the UK in September 1995 at £299. These figures are from my own recollection, and some cross-referencing online.
Your point about the Dreamcast is perfectly valid, however - £199 at launch, which was a bit over a year ahead of the PS2. At the time of the PS2 launch, Sega was offering a better deal (DC + DVD player + Chu Chu Rocket + Internet capability - terrible preordering for £300). To me, it's just salt in the wounds...
DoctorDee 28 Sep 2004 07:02
53/55
NiktheGreek wrote:
Saturn launched in the UK in 1995 (I think it was August, but can't confirm it), with an RRP of £399. Playstation launched in the UK in September 1995 at £299.
Wow, I was just plain wrong about that Saturn/SPX launch stuff. My apologies.
Of course, one thing that hindered Saturn was that many developers couldn't make best use fo the twin CPUs, and Sega didn't provide middleware to make this transparent to them.
But the £100 price defference really won't have helped Sega, and their unit looked a bit more like a big black brick, wheras the PSX was a little more stylish...
Kaxxx 28 Sep 2004 07:24
54/55
I also believe that the Commodore and Spectrum generation had a large part to play. These guys were no longer 8 years old and Sony provided something cool and new that Sega didnt. I still think that that generation of gamers grew up while Nintendo and Sega tried to market the same age group.
Mind you, the Saturn still had Resident Evil and Tomb Raider before the playstation. Didtn do them any good though.
Mind you, the Saturn still had Resident Evil and Tomb Raider before the playstation. Didtn do them any good though.
NiktheGreek 28 Sep 2004 10:59
55/55
Kaxxx wrote:
I also believe that the Commodore and Spectrum generation had a large part to play. These guys were no longer 8 years old and Sony provided something cool and new that Sega didnt. I still think that that generation of gamers grew up while Nintendo and Sega tried to market the same age group.
It's odd, because Sega is often credited with creating the "cool" approach, sometimes in regards to Sonic but more frequently the advertising campaigns in the US and UK. Sega of America didn't advertise on Saturday morning kids TV like Nintendo, they put out the Sega Scream campaign on MTV. Likewise, we got the Pirate TV campaign which was bizarre (and at times took the whole ad break).
For whatever reason, Sega lost it's edge after that. In fact, the fact that I can remember Mega Drive ads that first aired when I was 6 but can't remember any Saturn ads at all pretty much speaks for itself. The Dreamcast marketing was little better (bloody barbers), though they at least tried the approach that Sony used in the Ministry of Sound (Sega placed DC demo units around Ibiza).
DoctorDee wrote:
Of course, one thing that hindered Saturn was that many developers couldn't make best use fo the twin CPUs, and Sega didn't provide middleware to make this transparent to them.
Definitely, even high-ranking Sega employees have said this.
"One very fast central processor would be preferable. I don't think all programmers have the ability to program 2 CPUs most can only get one and a half times the speed that you could get from just one sh-1. I think that only one in 100 programmers would be good enough to get this kind of speed out of Saturn." - Yu Suzuki
