New PlayStation 3 claims emerge. Incredible expectations laid down

Maybe their market research showed that most of us don't have three friends.

Why make evertyone pay for something only 13.6% of people are gonna use, when anyone one of you party-guys can pick up a multi-tap for twenty bucks?



But it's still the best controller.



No, the GameCube clearly has FAR superio 3D capabilities. But there is no significant difference between the N64 and the GameCube, certainly.



You are right there. Their last gen success made them complacent. But I'm guessing Sony's analysts have noticed the trend, and I'm betting they'll get of their complacency chair and start fighting back.

Amazing! A thread where people have dissed the Playstation brand and not been shot down!

It is true that, although it may have lots of users, the PS2 is for the gamer whose friends don't like their habits. The Cube practically begs you to bring a friend; the Xbox asked them to bring another TV and console and LAN game; the PS2... said you could buy a multitap and like it. A USB pad would have made up for it, but never emerged.

And am i the only person who doesn't like the design of Playstation pad? It feels so... flimsy.

Would it? I mean, I know what you're saying, it SHOULD have - but is the PS2 wired so that USB controllers would appear to software as controllers plugged into a multi-tap? Or would the software specifically have to support them?

I'm guessing (though I really don't know) that they didn't appear in shops because they wouldn't have worked - surely a huge FU at Sony!

Otherwise, I'm sure third party hardware manufacturers would have been in there like a shot....

Hmm, true...

After all, all they would do is make the ones that are blatant PS2 pad ripoffs that they already have on USB for PC compatible...

Plus, after Eyetoy coming out, people finally had a good reason (minus anything illegal) to have those ports...

actually if i remember correctly the ps2 official multi tap cost somethign in the neighborhood of $40 when it was new... sadly i was working at a toys'r'us for the US launch of the Cube and XBOX

and i dont care if market reserch said it was really worth it or not, how much extra money could some one possibly have to pay to add 2 controller ports actualy cost to manyfacture woudl have been probably less than a dollar. You ave no idea how many times i heard peopel complain about having to pay 20 dollars to play DVD's on their xbox (even though M$ was just saving them the licensing Fee for use of the DVD tech and didn't really tuene any kind of real proffeit of the sail fo the remote) but they where just fien paying 30-40 bucks for a multi tap... a peice fo hardawar that couldnt have cost more than 5 dollars to actually manufacture.



that your opinion... i thing the sad lack of analog triggers is just awfull... especialy when Gran Turismos is such a huge deal for the system. You think the chossen console of drivng Sim enthusiast woudl want to give them analog controll of the gas and brake. Also the whose circle square triangle nonsesne was just unnecesary... not a hard thing to get used to ... but just really unnecesary



the increased storage space of the media allows for much better sound quality and more fmv... but other wise the cube and 64 are strikingly similar in their overal design. ironicly the cube was nintendo's second console that included 4 port technology!



Hurray!!!! IM RIGHT!!! WOOOOO!!!!!
Also i sadly agree with you on the sony not being complacent this tiem thing. The cell and PS3 both look to be trully amazing things. My rampant xbox fanboyism is going to be hard to maintaine if sonys console is even half as cool as they say it will be. Honestly im very glad M$ is comming to market early. I really think they have a good shot at levelign things by getting a big enough installed user base. You can already assume almost every xbox owner is going to want a xenon (or whatever) but hopefully some of the less faithfull sony owners will be willing to be early adopters of the new tech. If not M$ is going to have a real hard time gaining any ground... especialy since so many gamecube owners continue to grow up and move to the more well known and "cooler" playstation brand. You know the kid with "the four swords" is not nearly as cool to his other little ten year old peers as the kid with san andreas is.
_________

It's a while since I payed GT - but I am pretty sure (100%, in fact) that I used to have analog gas/braking on my right analog stick.

valid point, i was unaware, but do you consider pushing a stick up or down to be an acurate representation of accelerating and breaking. instead of two seperate analog inputs? sure its a passable work around but i dont think it is nearly as intuitive as the two triggers. Not to mention how nice the triggers are for shooting games

for me if i had to pick one controler from the current lot to be my favorite it would be the xbox, but the dual shock is very nice. I do preffer the slightly larger size of the xbox and the layout of the analog sticks and the triggers. I do however think the black and white buttons are stupid and think a few actual shoulder buttons to go along with the triggers woudl be nice.

My perfect controler would be the XBOX's controller
(s of course, not that the giant one is without its charms) with 6 face buttons (genesis style) with two extra buttons along the inside of the hand grips where your middle finger naturaly rests.
_______

Yeah, I played Colin McRae on my girlfriend's brother's PS2 at Xmas, and found the analogue acceleration awkward (although I did get more used to it).

I've never found the PS pads the best, perhaps it's due to not ever owning a Sony console (until, hopefully, this weekend :-)). My favourite controller is probably the GC's, with XB Controller-S a close 2nd; controlling Halo 2 is akin to using a knife and fork... ... mind you, you should see me eat!

I have to say I truly despise the Xbox controller, both the super sized original and the S(maller-ish) one. I find the controls, without exception, to be all out of whack, leading to cramp after extended play. The buttons have a domed surface, leaving a painful dent in the middle of my right thumb and, as mentioned, the B/W buttons are pretty much useless.

The GC controller is confortable, but the C-stick and the Z-button are in the most ludicrous locations. However, the GC does seem to have the most accurate analogue sticks of any console (seconded by the N64, IMO)

The PS2 really does have the best of the lot. Its buttona nd stick layouts are really comfortable and just so natural. However, it's still not perfect. The analogue sticks are very inaccurate - it's extremely difficult to get a smooth transition when you move it slightly.

Also, the lack of triggers is baaad. I've long thought that a slightly modded PS2 pad, with the L/R2 buttons moved back and down and given greater travel, essentially making them triggers, would make it the ultimate controller.

The buttons are analogue, remember, but they don't have the travel for subtle variations in pressure. Having said that, I hardly ever drive in-game using anything other than slight presure for "cruising" and full for "peddle-to-the-metal" :)

No, but I consider it to be about as accurate as pulling a trigger.

But I'm not a big fan of any control system for driving games, especially steering wheel and pedals set-ups. Thing is, I consider myself to be a pretty good driver - and I think any decent driver is accustomed to getting so much tactile, visual and auditory feedback that no computer game can compare.

So many factors affect car handling, including temperature and humidity - which you never get a feel for from a game, and it's not fair to expect that you will any time soon.

But one of the biggest factors in handling is weight distribution. The same car, at exactly the same speed, in exactly the same position, at exactly the same angle on the same corner will handle massively differently depending on whether it is accelerating or deccelerating, and on the rate of change of velocity.

The fact that ALL computer game car control systems are approximately 100% inaccurate means that I don't really prefer one over another.

Steering wheel systems seem to be trying to overcome these problems. But in real driving the wheel gives most of the feedback, to the road surface, to traction staus and to forces on the suspension. Computer game wheels establish an expectation that they completely fail to deliver on, and this makes them worse than a joypad to me.

Well, speaking for myself, I use the analogue stick to control the gas and brakes while playing GT. Stops me doing left foot braking techniques, but I'm no good at that on XBox either! :-)

Just because Sega invented the analogue trigger system and MS and Nintendo ripped it off, doesn't make it the best control system out there.

It certainly affects playing other games that require a non-analogue trigger system. Games that use the shoulder buttons on PS2 pads for gun triggers, or for view switching, for example. Try playing a Tony Hawk game on XBox, the doubling up of triggers for revert and spin makes landing big combos a bit nasty.

Also, the extra space required for analogue triggers makes having four prohibitive, another place where the PS2 pad scores, no black and white buttons to ignore.


What's so weird about using symbols instead of letters? A, B, X & Y makes no sense to me. What happened to C & D?

Anyway, the PS symbols have three ways of referring to them, shape, colour and number (circle - one stroke, cross two, triangle three, square four). Notice that MS added coulour to the buttons on the XBox pad, Ninty dropped the ball with the X & Y being both grey on the Cube pad.

Also, the symbols are universal. What does "A" mean to someone who reads and writes Kanji? What does "Y" mean to someone who reads and writes Arabic? Or Korean, Thai, Hebrew or even Russian?

The real reason Sony used symbols, of course, is so they can be used to create a brand. Most of the Sony studios use the symbols in their logos.

Team Soho
Studio Cambridge

Also, the symbols can be used in other places by other people to indicate that they are talking about gaming. In the UK there was an advert for becoming a teacher that used the question "Can you speak another language" while showing a kid talking alternating with the PlayStation symbols. Instantly you knew what they were getting at, "this kid is talking about gaming, do you know what she's saying?"

You can't make that connection with A, B, X & Y. You can't make the above point as simply with those letters either. By using the symbols, and allowing others to use them, Sony are reinforcing their brand and the idea that "PlayStation == Gaming".

It was a very clever move on their part from start to finish.

i thinkt he analog ont he xbox is very good, especially considering the rediculous amouint of halo and other fast action games i play, ninja gaiden anyone? as for the buttons i have never had any issues witht he slightly rounded tops, also the controller-s buttosn are barely more convex than the ps2 or game cube buttons. plus i have never had an indentation in my finger... not since the analog trigger was invented... i used to get it from racing games on odler systems... cause you know pushign harder makes the car go faster!



i dont think the location of the c-stick is poor, its basically the same as the dual shock, but the fact that it has no top to it is really stupid. and the z-button is just terrible. as for the analog seemign superior i dont know if it is a physical difference or if you have just been playign nintendo games on it making the controller seem better because nintendo games are so well tuned... mario 64 still has better analog controll than most current gen platform games.



i think it is two small but i am 6' and have rather large hands even for someone my height so im a little outside the average. the buttons and sticks are well layed out.




im with you... except i woudl preffer that the l/r1 buttons be made into triggers since that is where my "trigger finger" woudl be and then have another set of buttons (or two, we have more fingers) just below them.

Yeah, and one that EA could have had for themselves. But they dropped the ball.

I mean first time I ever saw the PlayStation shapes they reminded me of the old EA logo - remember the Square, Circle, Triangle one.

And they even used to do each shape a different colour!

its a valid point. i never questioned their resoning, it definitly has its ups. I just dont like having to re aclimate myself. I have had the ab set up sine the nes and the ab/xy set up since the snes... abc/xyc ont he 6 button genisis. If i where to look at a ps2 games manual i would have to stop and think about what im doing. Im sure if i played alot of playstation i would have gotten used to it quickly but i just dont enjoy having to make the switch in order for sonyt to help brand themselves.

As for the language issues im pretty sure the nes had A and B buttosn even in japan so it is somethign that japan andf basically all other game playign countries are already used to as well. Im not trying to prevent change but i dont think making buttons into generic symbols has enough a benifit to the customers to make it worth while.

Does it help sony make snazy adds? you bet! does it make my game playing experience any better? not in the slightest! (if i where some kind of sony hater i might point out that this could be construde as sony putting there own branding ahead of their customers needs or wants, but i wouldn't do that :) )for me it actually inhibits it. But again, thats just my personal prefference.

also the 64 started the color coded button thing, i don't know why they changed it up for the cube. I guess it was to help acentuate the importance of the "A" button! aprently making it 4 times the size of the other buttons wasn't enough!
______

Yeah, and the cone and the cube!

I heard a while back that the Dual Shock 3 would have triggers on the back, but I don't know if that means changing the existing L buttons or adding more.

A fast view of the pads:

Xbox: evolved from the Saturn 3D pad and the Dreamcast pad. Nicely comfortable to an old Sega player like myself. The S is a Dual Shock/DC hybrid, and works nice.

Cube: Obviously aimed at children, and yet again a modified Dual Shock. C Stick is awful, Z is fine (it's where R1 is, after all...), shoulder buttons shaped weird. Front of pad very confusing. Small hands only comfort-wise.

PS2: Evolution of old Snes pad. Hand positioning to cover all buttons hurts my hands, pad legs push into palms causing many a muscle pain, joysticks too loose. Oh yeah, and if dropped they break. I broke 3 during GT2.

The next round, comfort and design are going to be key issues; Cell processors liking others being near will drive away the pirate game player (a key demographic of the PS1 crowd) and the cheapass (hey, i ain't getting an AIBO and a new telly just to play a better Tekken), so that'd be a little stupid. Nobody would replace their entire electronics setup to play GT5 with a better framerate and claim to be smart.

Let's face it, the joystick is still the best controller. They cost to much to make, so they're out of the question. Discomfort is a key of gaming; look at the NES pad, for the love of all that is pixellated...

Cube takes my award for Best Controller Ever.

i love nintendo and what they tried to do... but the cub controlelr has some things that are just retarded.

first off... the left analog stick was intentionaly stupified because nintendo games only use it as a camera controll... and if anyoen elses wants to sue it for somehtign more complex... well tough s**t to them... trying to aim and fps with a little yellow nipple is bad. secondly... the z-button is in a bad place... my trigger finger goes on the triggers... i do however have 3 other fingers on that hand that are below that6 trigger that coudl easily access a secondary button if it where back there... but instead nintendo put it on top so i have to take my finger off of the trigger and strain to reach it... ratarded!
thirdly
they left off the clickable analog sticks... so rather than have a device that can function in its normal way and add axtra functiosn they decided to give the analog triggers a second click... problem is i have to already have the triggers all the wya in before i can use the extra functionality... makeing them less usefull than clickable sticks woudl be.

also the fave buttosn be laid out the way they are severly inhibits button combos... soul calibur requires i hold the controlle rin a way it wasnt intended... i cant push B and X or Y without either hitting "A" (god of buttons) or holding my right hand over the controler and using more than one finger... which renders the z-button and right trigger useless.

for playign mario sunshine and zelda,,, the cube controller is awsome... for third party games... it blows!

which is probably just oen mroe reason (among many) why nintendo cant seem to maintain good third party support.