Microsoft: ‘We’ll Take Sony in Next-Generation!’

In this generation in which microsoft is getting it's feet wet. Xbox live is a selling point example EA . If you like go to gamerfeed.com there is a article that states xbox live passes 1 million mark for subcribers. almondVanHelsing wrote:

>Maybe Microsoft will Sake Sony for lunch?
>
>Seriously, that's all they can do with the market
>position they have now.
>
>Online is not lighting a fire under the gaming
>public, that is not a selling point. Most
>players don't care about the graphics, or the
>hard drive, they want games to play. Sure XBox
>has some good games, but not many that aren't
>available elsewhere.
>
>XBox is only number two console because GameCube
>has not done as well as previous Nintendo
>consoles.

MR_gamefan wrote:

>In this generation in which microsoft is
>getting it's feet wet. Xbox live is a
>selling point example EA . If you like
>e go to gamerfeed.com there is a article
>that states xbox live passes 1 million mark
>for subcribers.

To paraphrase a certain Nintendo figure head, "One million subscribers? If that were a console, it would be a complete failure."

No offence MR Alan but I don't see the purpose of you replying to me. If everyone was to mine their own business sometimes maybe this world would be a better place to be!" Peace!" Alan Poole wrote:

>MR_gamefan wrote:
>
>>In this generation in which microsoft is
>>getting it's feet wet. Xbox live is a
>>selling point example EA . If you like
>>e go to gamerfeed.com there is a
>article
>>that states xbox live passes 1 million mark
>>for subcribers.
>
>To paraphrase a certain Nintendo figure head,
>"One million subscribers? If that were a console,
>it would be a complete failure."

Alan Poole wrote:

>Not according to Nintendo. Nintendo and Microsoft
>have swapped the #2 slot on and off, and as of
>E3, Nintendo right out claimed the #2 spot with
>their number charts.

That claim cannot be based on UK software sales.

In terms of software unit sale, I can 100% assure you that, in the UK, Gamecube has only ever outsold Xbox on five occassions - one of which was the launch frenzy. Here are the other four points (year/week) along with the title that powered the GC sales boost.

2002/37 : Resident Evil
2002/40-41 : Super Mario Sunshine
2003/10-12 : Resident Evil Zero
2003/18 : The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

Here's an average of the console market share in the weeks that followed the Gamecube's launched, right up to this week's chart.

73.10% PS2
15.88% Xbox
11.02% GC

So you see, GC is clearly in third place, but MS really having nothing to shout about.

Figures are all based on ELSPA/ChartTrack weekly sales data.

But UK sales mean nothing at the end of the day. GC are not that far behind XBox anyway.

MR_gamefan wrote:

>In this generation in which microsoft is
>getting it's feet wet. Xbox live is a
>selling point example EA . If you like
>e go to gamerfeed.com there is a article
>that states xbox live passes 1 million mark
>for subcribers.

1 million subscribers, worldwide, since 15 Nov 2002? That's 20 months, give or take. That's not a selling point by any means.

Do you really think EA would have stayed away from Live! for so long if it was a hugely profitable exercise?

Face it, Microsoft are throwing money at the XBox trying to win friends. They try much harder than Nintendo or Sony need to. And they are still miles behind Sony and only just ahead of Nintendo.

However, money is one thing MS has huge piles of. If XBox had been launched by anybody else, it would have been binned long ago.

tyrion wrote:

>Do you really think EA would have stayed away
>from Live! for so long if it was a hugely
>profitable exercise?
I think this actually highlights Live's true strength. EA walked away from the system, Microsoft did nothing. It was EA that went crawling back...

How the biggest third-party in world was buckled like this is telling - about the service today and what it might hold in the future.

Here the thing.. Microsoft cannot take the Next-gen. They would have to beef up sales in Japan before they could even attempt to believe that they could take the Next-gen.

They don't have the proper support. I don't see japanese 3rd party companies flocking to work with them... The most 3rd action that X-box has is american companies who think that Online gaming is the future. I for one couldn't care less about online gaming. And 9 out of 10 consol owners I talked to say the same thing. The thing about a consol is that you don't have to have anyone there to have it be a fun time, You need no one eles but yourself and a game. I don't think Microsoft has understood that yet.

I believe in Nintendo and Sony. I think Nintendo, With a well placed strategy can take the next-gen in a walk... With more games like Legend of Zelda: Windwaker, Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure, and Tales of Symphonia... And you can't forget about Mariokart and others... I really think it could do it.

Sony, However, If the PS3 will indeed be backwards compatible with the PS2 and PS1 games as I have heard.. Will have the single largest out of the gate library on the face of the planet.. As much as Backwards compatibility doesn't mean much to some... People like me with a hundred or so games for the PS1 and PS2 seperately.. It makes us happy.

X-box 2 probably won't have that feature... Leaving X-box owners a tad burnt.

X-Box, Talks a big game... But It can't possibly deliver on that promise... At least.. Not that I can see...

FrozenBabylon wrote:

>Here the thing.. Microsoft cannot take the
>Next-gen. They would have to beef up sales in
>Japan before they could even attempt to believe
>that they could take the Next-gen.
>
>They don't have the proper support. I don't see
>japanese 3rd party companies flocking to work
>with them... The most 3rd action that X-box has
>is american companies who think that Online
>gaming is the future. I for one couldn't care
>less about online gaming. And 9 out of 10 consol
>owners I talked to say the same thing. The thing
>about a consol is that you don't have to have
>anyone there to have it be a fun time, You need
>no one eles but yourself and a game. I don't
>think Microsoft has understood that yet.
>
>I believe in Nintendo and Sony. I think Nintendo,
>With a well placed strategy can take the next-gen
>in a walk... With more games like Legend of
>Zelda: Windwaker, Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
>Adventure, and Tales of Symphonia... And you
>can't forget about Mariokart and others... I
>really think it could do it.
>
>Sony, However, If the PS3 will indeed be
>backwards compatible with the PS2 and PS1 games
>as I have heard.. Will have the single largest
>out of the gate library on the face of the
>planet.. As much as Backwards compatibility
>doesn't mean much to some... People like me with
>a hundred or so games for the PS1 and PS2
>seperately.. It makes us happy.
>
>X-box 2 probably won't have that feature...
>Leaving X-box owners a tad burnt.
>
>X-Box, Talks a big game... But It can't possibly
>deliver on that promise... At least.. Not that I
>can see...

Right, now working for an Xbox site you don't have to take my word for it but look at history, Microsoft cocked up a couple of times before it wiped out the competiton with Windows as I have no doubt it will do with Sony and Nintendo eventually, after all Microsoft has never left a market it entered, the only thing they have done is conquer it.

Now, when the Xbox was announced I was not like some who though, oh new console I want to be able to say I was there at the start. I pre ordered an Xbox in the January before its March launch in the UK for the sole reason that it at the time looked like where Sega's main material was going, Shenmue, PGR (albeit MSR2) etc. However, as time went on I bought Halo at launch along with PGR and Amped.

Now having never been a particular fan of Windows and its previous itierations of OS I was cautious, after all the previous Christmas before I had been scorned by Sega three weeks later announcing they were dropping the Dreamcast.

Now as part of a feature I have been doing for the site I work at I have been investigating what we know about the rumours and fact of Xbox2. Most developers and publishers now believe that MS will include Backwards Compat.

Now I don't think Microsoft will 'take' the next gen but they will wipe the smug look off the faces of Sony's executives as both Xbox2/Xennon what ever it will be called and the PS3 will undoubtably be neck and neck in sales with the PS3 just in front.

Now there is nothing more I'd like to see than MS control the console market if only to get the idea behind XNA working. A) because it would finally remove the stubbling block of multiple platforms (you might ask why not Sony, well heres why...) but also because only Microsoft have a gameplan which would open up the hardware market. As Microsoft have said in the past they don't want to be in the hardware market if they make a constant loss, they are a 'tools' company.

Here, imagine these alternate futures, one where the hardware struggle continues continuing on the Status Quo, one where Sony wins and one where Microsoft win.

The Status Quo: The battle continues causing more and more casual gamers to be scorned for picking the wrong console. Microsoft and Sony continue to gain the upper hand then lose it. The cycle continues till the casual gamer gets tired of getting burned and leaves gaming altogether, the industry collapses.

Sony wins: All seems fine at first. However they don't allow other manufacturers to produce Playstations. Soon to buy a Playstation you have to buy a Sony Homestation, a built in TV, Blu-Ray Player, Hi-Fi system, Playstation Hybrid, you can no longer buy them seperately, the market becomes owned by Sony forcing you to buy Sony products. Their prices inflate to stupid levels, you want entertainment, you must buy Sony. This is what Sony want and the PSX was the first step towards this.

On the software side, games stay as they are, graphics slowly improve as they do these days however gameplay stays stale, storylines and playabilty take a back seat to getting the games to work in the way they do with all consoles these days.

Microsoft wins: Doomsayers and Sony Fanboys cry. However, Microsoft makes the announcement that they are pulling out of the hardware market and licensing their hardware designs out to various manufacturers, even Sony. Now you can buy a games console the same way you can buy a DVD player, prices plummet as competition is introduced.

On the development side games begin to flourish into a true golden age where the only limit is the game developers imagination. Microsoft provide the XNA framework so that developers can have the choice of creating new things like AI or licensing off another firms technology like the Havoc engine for Physics. Storylines become more important to the game and more time can be spent on playablity. As games become more accessable and interesting a explosion of casual gamers expand. Lower costs mean that even a game aimed at hardcore gamers can still make a profit, and the cost of games can come down to the price of a DVD, the industries expansion explodes. Gaming overtakes TV, Movies and Film as the main entertainment platform in numbers per person using it rather than the profit they make.

And where is Microsoft in all this? Getting royalties from the use of XNA, making a nice profit which is all they wanted all along.

Which future would you prefer to be a part of?

Since I have a flu, I don't feel like replying to the giant post. But I will say that Mr. Furfie has a different view of the gaming market, and fails to realize that unlike Windows the OS (which is used for a copious amount of things such as buisness) the video game market revolves around games.

If the market remained the same in a couple years as it is now, then I'd say he had a point. But the market won't remain the same, and things like the Nintendo DS will be a reminder of this.

Well Ben, I agree with your point about the PSX (and I reckon Sony should leave it til they can stick PS3 parts in there), but at the same time you have to expect that from Sony, because Sony are a hardware company at heart. Perhaps they find it hard to change and after selling their product for so any years, especially when it comes to cutting prices they are really bad. But there is one point you haven't covered and that is the quality of Sony products. Yes some PSone, PS2's have been returned with laser problems etc. But when you compare that to MS past efforts in other PC fields, and Windows MS have messed up a great amount more than I can count, considering most PCs run windows around the globe, i feel Sony's products are better. MS also have a great amount of haters out there too, hence the viruses that are always popping round the net.

Nintendo, Sony and MS have all messed up in the past, so they can learn from their mistakes. The thing is that everyone is underestimating Nintendo especially. I think they will surprise a lot of people yet.

A games market with MS at the top wouldn't be very good in my opinion, because I don't think the japanese would ever fail that much and submit it to them, and despite western development, japan is where most of the innovation etc comes from that drives this industry (a dark place it would be without Metal Slug and Monkey Ball). Sega messed up and that's history, but they got online properly first, MS came along and made it better. MS even showed signs of DC design in Xbox itself, a nod to the design influence maybe? I also think there is reluctance in japan to having westerners buy out their company and impose western business practices on an eastern nation and company. Perhaps this is why the the MS/Sega thing never went through. The japanese economy not being what it once was, and gaming in decline in japan also make the japanese want to support their economy more by buying japanese, bringing home the bacon again so they don't end up on the streets.

Along with this there is also a lot of anti american feeling in japan because of not just Iraq but the american troops still not leaving japan altogether, which most japanese want. Perhaps they also see this in Xbox, an oversized gaijin console trying to occupy them again. First there was Windows, then Xbox, then iPod so that's a lot of money filling up the american economy. Perhaps this is why the GBASP is selling so well still in japan even more than Xbox, because it's simple gaming and they want to buy japanese product ,to keep the japanese in the games industry and their economy in a better state.

These are a lot of factors to overcome for MS, and until they crack japan they are just wealthy amatuers in this industry, albeit doing some good things along the way. I don't think the japanese gamers will ever really accept MS, and if they do it will take forever.

Back when westerners were new to japan, a british gentleman once greated a passing samurai on a road, and paid for it with his life after the samurai cut him down for disrespecting him. Perhaps this happened possibly due to the business mans failure to educate himself about the country and culture he's in. Whatever the reason, MS are just like this business man, without knowing the japanese culture, market and tastes properly and are now hurting, bleeding money and desperate to shift Xbox in japan. Is Xbox size is insulting to them perhaps, as was the controller before the S version? Whatever the reasons I don't see any chance of this changing soon anytime soon.

This is also another advantage that Sony and Nintendo have over MS. Sony also have both PS3 and PSP, while Nintendo have N5/DS/GBA2 to help make them money, and MS have...well Xbox 2. And in a retrospect view to those systems, I reckon Nintendo are still able to put up such a fight now, because of the GB series always bringin home the bacon throughout it's several changes over the last 14-15 years. Put all those yen together and that's a lot of money taken worldwide. A lot of money that Sega missed out on, and after their GG/MegaCD/32X/Saturn/DC problems, it's no wonder Sega ended up where they are now, despite making some fantastic games over the years. (The state Sega are in now brings a tear to the eye, but atleast they are still run by the japanese, in a world where the big like MS usually eat the small.)

Whatever happens I still believe it will be Sony or Nintendo at the top. Sony because they are on top of the industry now, and won't give up without a good fight. Nintendo because they can't afford to piss up again and have a lot to give us yet, otherwise they could end up like Sega, or even exit the industry, therefore some success sorely needed, whereas MS have a lot more money at their disposal to piss up several times, and in some cases not much sense to go with it.

Thanks for readin me essay post, LOL.

I think you have the futures mixed up!

If you look at the business practices of Microsoft in the past, they display exactly the scenario you attribute to Sony.

Why do you believe Microsoft's PR and not Sony's?

Have you forgotten Microsoft moved into Internet providing with MSN? And into TV media with MSNBC? They are spreading from their software only roots into other markets.

If Microsoft owned the games hardware market, no way would they step aside and just do the software! If they wanted to license software, they would have made middle ware like RenderWare, not make a console AND an online service AND a middleware library.

I see a future where MS wins the games hardware war, the XBox2 becomes a "standard" piece of living room equipment. MS gets back into content delivery and the XBox2 becomes the "digital hub" of media delivery. Now MS own the delivery of media at a level where nobody can get in the way.

UK people, imagine if Pace & SKY decide to leverage their market position in a way like Microsoft has done in the past! All TV, news, music, movies and information in general is owned by SKY?

The same can happen with Microsoft's trojan horse "games" console.

All I'm saying is that Microsoft ain't jack til they convince the japanese, and at the moment it ain't happening.

My question for you lot is that if you think MS will convince the japanese in the future, elaborate on how you think they will go about it. MS are clearly out of ideas so far, and look like they need your help.

My other point is I reckon most japanese would rather boost their economy messed up by buying and selling japanese product, instead of filling american pockets like those of MS.

If you think I'm wrong try to convince me otherwise, with something believable to change my mind.

MR Trion everyone has a an opinion , so do I.
I'm sticking by my opinion regardness on whom disagrees. I have better things to do with my life rather then debate over the internet about three rich companies(Nintendo,Sony & Microsoft.!" God bless!"

tyrion wrote:

>MR_gamefan wrote:
>
>>In this generation in which microsoft is
>>getting it's feet wet. Xbox live is a
>>selling point example EA . If you like
>>e go to gamerfeed.com there is a
>article
>>that states xbox live passes 1 million mark
>>for subcribers.
>
>1 million subscribers, worldwide, since 15 Nov
>2002? That's 20 months, give or take. That's
>not a selling point by any means.
>
>Do you really think EA would have stayed away
>from Live! for so long if it was a hugely
>profitable exercise?
>
>Face it, Microsoft are throwing money at the XBox
>trying to win friends. They try much harder than
>Nintendo or Sony need to. And they are still
>miles behind Sony and only just ahead of
>Nintendo.
>
>However, money is one thing MS has huge piles of.
>If XBox had been launched by anybody else, it
>would have been binned long ago.

AVH wrote:
>I see a future where MS wins the games hardware war, the XBox2 becomes a "standard" piece of living room equipment.

Sad view for the future then. They never will though, pipe dream mate, pipe dream!

Kaxxx wrote:

>Sad view for the future then. They never will
>though, pipe dream mate, pipe dream!

It IS a sad view of the future. But as long as people sit around complacently spouting tosh like "pipe dream mate, pipe dream" it WILL happen.

If you think it's a sad view of the future, you need to make sure that it doesn't happen.

DoctorDee wrote:

>But as long as people sit around complacently spouting tosh like "pipe dream mate, pipe dream" it WILL happen.

Ahem! Nice way to end a debate mate.

Kaxxx wrote:

>Ahem! Nice way to end a debate mate.

And "pipe dream mate, pipe dream! ", was a better example of debating skill?

Ben Furfie wrote:

>Microsoft makes the announcement that
>they are pulling out of the hardware market and
>licensing their hardware designs out to various
>manufacturers, even Sony. Now you can buy a games
>console the same way you can buy a DVD player,
>prices plummet as competition is introduced.

And they all live happily ever after.

The end.

THis is n't a fairy tale. Micrsofot have a history of the most predatory business practises of any company. THey will not suddenly become all philanthropic once they have "won" the console battle. They don't even give a damn about games, they just want a way of getting a machine into your lounge so they can sell you pay-per-play, pay-per-listen, pay-per-view.

MR_gamefan wrote:

>MR Trion everyone has a an opinion , so do I.

This is what separates us from the animals.

>I'm sticking by my opinion regardness on
>whom disagrees. I have better things to do
>with my life rather then debate over the
>internet about three rich
>companies(Nintendo,Sony & Microsoft.!" God
>bless!"

You don't however have anything better to do than tell people you have better things to do? :-)

It may be your opinion that XBox Live! is a great selling point in favour of XBox. I happen to disagree, but that is what debate is all about.

I would point out that 1M subscribers, worldwide, in 20 months is quite low, in fact PS2 outsold it, in the UK only, in June 2004 (1.3M games sales).