High Court Slaughters Manhunt 2

Ramifications for censorship in the United Kingdom

Posted by Staff
Sitting in judgement, now there's a good game.
Sitting in judgement, now there's a good game.
Sir John Edward Mitting, born October 10th 1947 and appointed to the High Court, Queen's Bench Division on April 3rd 2001 has ruled against Rockstar games and its Manhunt 2 game. This could lead to the sale of the game being prohibited in the UK permanently.

However, Mitting pushed this ultimate decision back to the Video Appeals Commission (VAC). He stated that he didn't feel qualified to make such a decision as he had not worked on the case since its outset. He strongly suggested, however, that the VAC bear his thoughts on the subject in mind... the 'or else' was not stated.

Therefore the seven-member VAC panel will come together once more to 'decide' that the judge was correct.

The ruling revolved around the definition of 'harm' in law. Mr Justice Mitting ruled that the VAC had made an "error of law" because it had said that the game did not cause "devastating effects". Mitting's decision was that the game would cause some harm.

Mr Justice Mitting is also the gentleman who, last year, ruled that: "The death of an animal used in a regulated procedure for scientific experimentation was not an adverse effect which needed to be taken into account when deciding whether to grant a licence for such experiments. Rather, the statutory scheme governing such licences was concerned with the pain and suffering which animals might experience before death".

According to The Times report, "The words “adverse effect” were shorthand for “lasting harm” within the meaning of section 2(1) of the Act, by which a regulated procedure under the Act was one which “may have the effect of causing that animal pain, suffering distress or lasting harm”. Death was not lasting harm", according to Mitting's reading.

So, death of a real, living and breathing creature is all well and good (not an 'adverse effect') but is not 'lasting harm'. The death of a virtual character in a virtual world, however, is far too horrible for eyes to see.

We live in a world full of sense.

Mr Justice Mitting sat in an all-day session at the High Court yesterday before bringing down his judgement in favour of the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) in its contention that the Video Appeals Committee (VAC) had failed when it came to assessing the question of 'harm' under law.

The VAC had cleared the rated version of Manhunt 2 in the face of a proposed BBFC ban, leading the latter to appeal the case to the High Court in December last year.

The judge's ruling not only puts the brakes on Manhunt 2, it also lead the BBFC to state that it could have serious implications for the VAC's role as watchdog role "not only in relation to video games, but generally".

The ruling revolved around definitions - yet again - of 'harm'. We already know that Mitting thinks that death is not 'lasting harm'. The VAC, rightfully in our opinion, used the interpretation of 'actual harm' when applying its ruling. The BBFC and Mitting saw "potential harm and risk of harm" as the definition.

The ruling hinged on four judgements:

1) Was there any actual criminal content? There was deemed to be none (it's a virtual reality!)

2) Would it cause harm to adults? No, it was decided, it would not.

3) Was it likely to be viewed by minors? Yes, it would. So, parents and the BBFC's own rating system are all flawed.

4) Would harm be caused TO minors who played or viewed the game? No, it was decided, it would not!

Rockstar has responded to the ruling, saying: "We believe the VAC decision (to allow classification) was correct and do not understand the court's decision to expend further public resources to censor a game that contains content well within the bounds established by the BBFC's 18-plus ratings certification".

We do not know, however, whether it is illegal to bring a copy of the game legally purchased in Holland or online into the country.


Companies:
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Comments

Bentley 25 Jan 2008 16:10
1/20
This is RIDICULOUS now. So one of four judgements went the wrong way, and so it must be banned? That judgement being that "kids might see it"? This applies to ALL ADULT MEDIA! For f**k's sake, what a retarded conclusion they came to! Let's close down TV after 9pm in case kiddies see some titties too then, shall we? Why stop at one game? Let's burn down the whole entertainment industry, ban the Internet, make cleavage illegal and stop selling alcohol too, because kids MIGHT be exposed to these EVILS of SEX and VIOLENCE and DEBAUCHERY.

Kids can get to see any adult material if the parents don't care, and the BBFC don't make it clear enough to the parents that if they allow their kids to see it, it is THEY, the PARENTS, who are responsible. NOBODY ELSE.

Utterly, utterly ridiculous. If it does come out I will buy it just to support Rockstar for standing up for our rights to freedom of choice. And if it does not come out, I will import it from Holland and anyone who attempts to stop me is going to get a screwdriver rammed up their urethra.
PreciousRoi 25 Jan 2008 16:23
2/20
I can't believe I actually agree completely, wholeheartedly and vehemently, with something Bentley has said. Speechless am I.

edit:This whole topic must be locked, archived, and sealed until 3007. And we will never speak of it again.
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daz 25 Jan 2008 21:04
3/20
we still on this? for f**k sake let it go the first one was s**t why the hell would the second be any better? if ya ask me they're doing us a favour
deleted 26 Jan 2008 01:12
4/20
PreciousRoi wrote:
I can't believe I actually agree completely, wholeheartedly and vehemently, with something Bentley has said. Speechless am I.

edit:This whole topic must be locked, archived, and sealed until 3007. And we will never speak of it again.



The year is 3007 Fanboys have reached an all time high and the worlds only hope is two forum members - he`s a 360 fan with a hard attitude and an even harder opinion, and hes PS3 fan with funny shoes and even funnier nose!, together they are `Precious Bentley`!, coming soon get ready to laugh and cry!

Fox News - its the best thing since the full on graphic orgy in Mass Effect 2:

ps

ill leave it up to you to decide whos who
PreciousRoi 26 Jan 2008 11:15
5/20
Ooh, and I can be done by ILM as a kind of Yoda-meetsJack Klugman's Oscar Madison. Bentley, as Felix...aww hell, lets just cram Tony Randall into a robot suit and have done

Narrator: On November 13, Bentley was asked to remove himself from his place of residence; that request came from his wife, who accused him of loving his PS3 and the SPOnG forum more than her . Deep down, he knew she was right, but he also knew that some day he would return to her. With nowhere else to go, he appeared at the home of fellow SPOnG forum member PreciousRoi, Roi's wife had thrown HIM and his 360 out, requesting that HE never return, citing similar reasons. Can two divorced men share an apartment, a dsl line and a single high definition television without driving each other crazy?


Bentley:Everything you've ever owned is on that bed!
Roi:Not true, I got some stuff under the mattress.
(Bentley backs away and peers cautiously at the space beneath Roi's bed.)
(pointing at Roi's bed with shaking finger.)
Bentley: There are things living under there!
Roi:Yeah? Think of it as my answer to Little Big Planet and Spore.
Bentley:I wondered why I kept coming down with something...
Roi:Oh shut up, you f**king hypochondriac!
Bentley:Everybody thinks I'm a hypochondriac...It makes me sick.
(looks down nose at Roi)
Bentley:At least I'm not fat...
Roi:Dude...thats just "fun" fat, everybody over the age of 30 has that. They also call them "love handles".(smirks)
Bentley:Well, I don't...(once again with the looking down the nose)
(mutters)
Roi:You never have any fun, either...
Bentley:And another thing, when I moved in here, the agreement was, half the rent, and half the utilities...
(glowers and affects a James Earl Jones-esque voice)
Roi:Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?
Bentley:I just don't think your LIVE! account counts as a utility Plus, You said I could have exclusive use of the dsl line on Monday...
Roi (still with the voice):I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further.
PreciousRoi 26 Jan 2008 12:22
6/20
(Roi, Bentley, haritori, and SuperSayian4 are all preparing to play HALO 3, Roi having borrowed and extra box for Bentley who is playing against his will. Their very attractive neighbor suddenly comes over, visibly distressed, leaving the door open)
Bentley:Lindsay? What's wrong?
Lindsay:Oh...its...its just this girl I went to school with, in Omaha, she called me up one day and asked me how's California? And I'm like “Its great!”, because, you know, its not Nebraska... So she ends up inviting herself out here, and shes over at my place, right now, and she won't shut up about all the guys she slept with in Omaha...which is like, all the guys in Omaha...shes a total whore...
Roi:(interrupts) Are we gonna sit here and be regaled with the tale of the “Whore of Omaha” or are we gonna play some Halo?
Bentley(turns toward him):Oh, I'm sure shes not a whore...
Lindsay:Oh she's a total whore, she has absolutely no standards...
Haritori:Hey, has anyone seen SuperSayian?
(camera pans rooms, he is not seen)
SuperSayian4(offcamera):Hey, I heard you're new in down and I thought..
(Lindsay slams door, looking horrified)
Roi:Oh f**king great! Now we only got 3 people...
Lindsay:Hey, if you guys need a fourth, I could play...
Bentley:There we go, thats a good idea...
Roi:Uh noooo, thats not an idea, the wheel was a great idea, Relativity was a great idea, this is a notion and a horrible one at that...
Lindsay(stamps foot):Whyy?
Roi:Oh, Lindsay, Lindsay, Lindsay...
Lindsay(getting pissed):Oh, What, What, What?
Roi(rapid-fire):This is a complex battle simulation, with a steep learning curve. There are a myriad of weapons, vehicles, and strategies to master, not to mention (Lindsay picks up 360 controller off couch) an intricate backstory...(we hear an explosion)
Lindsay(coos):Ooh cool, whos head did I blow off?
Roi(tersely):...mine...
Lindsay:OK, I got this, Lock and Load, boys!
(Roi looks at Haritori)
Haritori(shrugs):Well if its the only way we can get four people...
Roi:Yeah, but whoever's on her team will be hamstrung by her lack of experience and...(we hear another explosion)
Lindsay:There goes your head again...
Roi:OK that just shows a lack of sportsmanship, killing someone when they just re...(another explosion)..spawn...OK thats just not fair! (hurriedly picks up controller)

(much later)
Roi:Hari, Hari, Cover me Hari, dammit she's got me cornered!
Lindsay:Cover this, suckers!(massive explosion)
Bentley:Lindsay, you are on fyah!
Lindsay:Yeah, so is Roi!
Roi(Stands up):OK I don't know how but she's cheating! No one can be that attractive and that skilled at a videogame!(storms off)
Lindsay(turns from game):Wait, wait Roi, come back you forgot something...
Roi(turns back and walks toward her):What?
Lindsay(turns back to game, gleefully):This plasma grenade! (Cackles, massive explosion)

*most of this was stolen from an American sitcom
DoctorDee 26 Jan 2008 13:35
7/20
daz wrote:
we still on this? for f**k sake let it go the first one was s**t why the hell would the second be any better? if ya ask me they're doing us a favour

There's a principle being missed here, and it's an incredibly important one.

Bo one here is saying anything about Manhunt 2 being any good as a game. And few of us would buy it. But we should be given the choice not to buy it. Freedom is being eroded - it's being eroded all the time. Corporations are suing it out of people, governments are prosecuting it out. But here, in this case, Manhunt is being persecuted unfairly, it is no more objectionable than many works that are in distribution, but because it is a "game" it is presumed to be aimed at children, and banned.


PreciousRoi 26 Jan 2008 21:42
8/20
yeah, but I hate it when sitcoms attempt to deal with serious issues.

The Facts of Life where Natalie and Tootie buy the bongs was just horrible.
James 27 Jan 2008 16:25
9/20
LOL now this is the height of hypocrasy really read this..

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91248-1302561,00.html

listed to what the BBFC say about the film, it's a joke and Rockstar should sue these pricks for loss of earnings.
deleted 27 Jan 2008 17:27
10/20
PreciousRoi wrote:
yeah, but I hate it when sitcoms attempt to deal with serious issues.

The Facts of Life where Natalie and Tootie buy the bongs was just horrible.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg9ZOgbtmEU and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwjSJ3__jVY if you want to cringe, also for those facts of life uneducated UKians see what all the fun is about :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg9ZOgbtmEU
daz 27 Jan 2008 17:34
11/20
haritori wrote:
PreciousRoi wrote:
yeah, but I hate it when sitcoms attempt to deal with serious issues.

The Facts of Life where Natalie and Tootie buy the bongs was just horrible.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwjSJ3__jVY if you want to cringe, also for those facts of life uneducated UKians see what all the fun is about :)


worst thing ever, that's worst that The office US (never thought i'd say that)
DoctorDee 28 Jan 2008 09:27
12/20
I think they should ban Burnout and Gran Turismo! Both of these games have caused me, a sane, normal (within reasonable parameters) businessman to go out on the streets with a huge metal killing machine, and behave irresponsibly, and recklessly.

No shooting game has ever had this effect on me.

Burnout specifically glorifies driving irresponsibly, and implores players to ram other cars off the road.

Ban this evil filth!


king skins 28 Jan 2008 13:30
13/20
DoctorDee wrote:
I think they should ban Burnout and Gran Turismo! Both of these games have caused me, a sane, normal (within reasonable parameters) businessman to go out on the streets with a huge metal killing machine, and behave irresponsibly, and recklessly.


I also think I'm now an amazing driver after playing Gran Turismo and Forza and have a tendency to take the racing line when driving!
PreciousRoi 28 Jan 2008 13:38
14/20
I'm just glad I never got the wheel...had to check myself several times already...but then, I pretty much always drove like that. I've owned two automatic transmission cars in my life, a big honking '78 Dodge van (nothing like driving a big van that says "D
O D G E
" right on the front of it) and a Taurus(yecch), both times my left foot would get sooo bored. Course that was back when gas was a dollar, but we had to walk 5 miles through the snow to get it, uphill both ways...
DoctorDee 28 Jan 2008 14:16
15/20
PreciousRoi wrote:
uphill both ways...

You were lucky. We had to walk 10 miles, through freezing fire on our hands and knees, backwards. Then pay 5 bucks a gallon to have to drill for our own oil, which we had to refine ourselves, by hand, using a process of fractional distillation. Only to find out that we didn't have a car. AND we lived in a hole on the central reservation of the A62. We used to dream of having cardboard to cower under. etc. [ad lib to fade]




Joji 28 Jan 2008 14:19
16/20
I'm totally with you on this on Doc. To the untrained eye this looks like arguing for a lame game to get released, but it is certainly much more important a premise than that, one that could effect the whole industry.

I'm not surprised at the BBFC, to take things to the high court and wasting tax payers money for supposedly protecting us from Rockstar. Your point above Doc, still gives Rockstar good cause to continue fighting this to the bitter end. Its unjust double standards against games, the same standards that put Fox in the dock, over Mass Effect.

I do think Rockstar should take this further, to the european high court. Rockstar should seek to make a point that to ban Manhunt 2, a game which has been on sale in Holland, with no signs of copycat acts reported, only seeks to undermine the inteligence of U.K gamers/consumers about what they are buying, if they decide to buy it. Have we no choices anymore?

Lastly, I'd like to say that as far as I'm aware, there's nothing that can really stop you from buying Manhunt 2 on import, be it from Holland or the U.S. I should know, I have a copy of Manhunt 2 (not a great game I know, but I did this out of principle for the industry and any freedoms I hold dear). The only way they could shut this down would be to ban all import shopping, something that's about as likely as banning all violent adult games. And do you really think they are bothered about import games (a niche gaming pursuit anyway?

Sure, its banned from U.K sale, but I have a right to shop elsewhere if I want to which I'll defend. I'm not hurting anyone, just enjoying my passion. This kind of crap half baked reasoned censorship is wrong, and I'll forever back Rockstar because I know the truth, the powers that be are trying to hide.

DoctorDee 28 Jan 2008 14:36
17/20
Joji wrote:
The only way they could shut this down would be to ban all import shopping, something that's about as likely as banning all violent adult games. And do you really think they are bothered about import games (a niche gaming pursuit anyway?

I agree with your larger points Joji, but beware what you wish for...

If Import shopping becomes prevalent enough (as it did for Sony with the PSP) they WILL shut it down. Remember that globalisation exists so that corporations can get brown people to make things cheap, sell them to white people expensively and send the profits to tax havens. Of course, they sell those SAME things cheaply in brown people's countries - and they DO NOT like white people using the power of the Internet try and buy those things.

Remember what happened to Lik Sang.


E-Henry 28 Jan 2008 15:19
18/20
If there's anything productive to be done to assist Rockstar (petition etc) I'd like to sign myself up for the cause. This is a hideous precedent being set and harks back to the days of information control. I can now watch Cannibal Holocaust but can't play Manhunt 2. Utterly absurd.
PreciousRoi 28 Jan 2008 15:23
19/20
What if I get a spray-on tan?

Its just the yella man, tryin' ta keep an orange brotha down...
Joji 29 Jan 2008 13:12
20/20
Yeah Doc, I'll never forget what happened to Lik Sang and I'll have dagger for Sony for ages over that (especially for PSP which is region free for such a reason). Import gaming is the last line of defense if you will, against censorship and draconian ill conceived bans. I thought the BBFC were okay, but after this underhand act to ban a game that passed their own criterior, after resubmitance, purely out of fear and loathing of the game and Rockstar, is totally out of line.

In the long run, adult games can only stand to benefit if a lot of game content begins to appear online as downloads, like those of Steam. Then I wonder if the likes of the BBFC will still moan about it, once the chance to be fair, is possibly taken out of their hands like this?

Just think, with PS2 nearing the end of its time (and the possibility of PS3 maybe doing PS2 DLC in the future), Rockstar could esaily offer the original uncut version of the Manhunt 2 over Steam for PC and via PSN for PS3.

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