Manhunt 2 Can Be Sold To UK Gamers

Legal loophole allows sale...

Posted by Staff
Manhunt 2 Can Be Sold To UK Gamers
A legal loophole that allows the controversial Rockstar/Take 2 game, Manhunt 2, to be legally sold to UK gamers - despite its banning by the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) - has been spotted and confirmed.

Credit where lots of credit is due to lawyer Phill Carnell (CMS Cameron McKenna) for alerting The Register to the fact that the UK's 1984 Video Recordings Act does not cover downloaded games.

According to the Reg', "Downloaded games do not need an age-suitability classification, such as 15 or 18, because the Act, which mandates the BBFC's certification programme and forces retailers to obey the classifications, only covers physical products."

The report even got a a BBFC spokeswoman to confirm "that if Manhunt 2 publisher Take-Two Interactive chose to sell the game online as a download then “that would be legal and not contravening the Video Recordings Act”.

The twist in terms of whether publishers will use the 'un-rated just download it' option is - as Carnell points out - that the major platform holders are averse to having unrated or even Adult Only (AO - in the US) games released on their hardware.

So, the saga continues...

Full Register Story is over here.
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Comments

ajmetz 24 Oct 2007 21:14
1/20
When doing my DVD documentary on videogames, I was able to be exempt from BBFC classification on the basis that it was informative, and contained footage of videogames...
Yes, videos of videogames can be exempt.
As long as no one complains...
deleted 25 Oct 2007 00:53
2/20
ok so what format gets this game then?, because as of right now, the only formats that it would work on are, PC, XBOX 360 & PS3 as the Wii has the storage issue?
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tyrion 25 Oct 2007 08:39
3/20
haritori wrote:
ok so what format gets this game then?, because as of right now, the only formats that it would work on are, PC, XBOX 360 & PS3 as the Wii has the storage issue?

Would have to be PC; as the story says console manufacturers won't approve a game that's AO or unrated for use on their machines.

Of course, it seems that at least one SCEE employee wanted Manhunt 2 to be available on the PS2.
deleted 25 Oct 2007 09:21
4/20
tyrion wrote:
haritori wrote:
ok so what format gets this game then?, because as of right now, the only formats that it would work on are, PC, XBOX 360 & PS3 as the Wii has the storage issue?

Would have to be PC; as the story says console manufacturers won't approve a game that's AO or unrated for use on their machines.

Of course, it seems that at least one SCEE employee wanted Manhunt 2 to be available on the PS2.


yes of course, perhaps its worth a console taking a leap of faith at this though, nintendo could offer 1 free dwnload with sale of a Wii hard-disk, and that downlaod could be manhunt 2??? yes i know nintendo would never do it but it would be nice :)
russ 25 Oct 2007 10:31
5/20
Rockstar should make this a PSN title!! YAY!
Joji 25 Oct 2007 13:09
6/20
But this is what I said ages ago, when the BBFC first banned Manhunt 2. By releasing it over something like Steam, they can by pass stores that don't want to stock it. This would be better suited to PC, but PS3 and 360 could easily see it too. We are gonna see more digital distribution in the future anyway, and I'm glad Rockstar are taking my advice.

There's just one problem for PS3? Can you guess what it is? All PS3s have a hard drive but only some of them can play PS2 games? Thanks to Sony BC mess up, many of you still won't be able to sample Manhunt 2 on PS3, even if you've downloaded it. Good one Sony, doh!

The only way round this loop (apart from importing) is for Rockstar to tweak the PC cut and release it over Live and PSN.

As for me, I'll be importing a copy, come hell or very high water.
tyrion 25 Oct 2007 14:08
7/20
Joji wrote:
But this is what I said ages ago, when the BBFC first banned Manhunt 2. By releasing it over something like Steam, they can by pass stores that don't want to stock it.

This story isn't about getting around the issue of shops not wanting to stock the game. It's about bypassing the legal implications of the refusal of the BBFC to issue a rating.

Joji wrote:
This would be better suited to PC, but PS3 and 360 could easily see it too. We are gonna see more digital distribution in the future anyway, and I'm glad Rockstar are taking my advice.

Apart from to fuel your hugely inflated ego getting in the way of common sense, did you actually read the article? Making the game available for download is legal, but probably won't happen, even if it did it could only happen for the PC. You do realise that Sony and Microsoft host and/or approve all of the DLC on their respective networks, don't you? If they won't approve the game for their consoles it won't get onto their servers for us to download. They don't approve unrated games. We won't get it.

Joji wrote:
There's just one problem for PS3? Can you guess what it is? All PS3s have a hard drive but only some of them can play PS2 games? Thanks to Sony BC mess up, many of you still won't be able to sample Manhunt 2 on PS3, even if you've downloaded it. Good one Sony, doh!

There's just one problem for 360? Can you guess what it is? All 360s have limited BC but only some of them have a hard drive? Thanks to Microsoft HDD mess up, many of you still won't be able to sample Manhunt 2 on 360, even if the BC can play it. Good one Microsoft, doh!

Joji wrote:
The only way round this loop (apart from importing) is for Rockstar to tweak the PC cut and release it over Live and PSN.

See above, the game has to be approved for release on the consoles but neither Microsoft or Sony will approve unrated games for release.

Joji wrote:
As for me, I'll be importing a copy, come hell or very high water.

Physical media, illegal to sell, buy or possess in the UK since it has been denied a BBFC rating. Shouting about your intention to import it wouldn't seem like the brightest of ideas.
Joji 25 Oct 2007 15:16
8/20
Chill out Tyrion, the only reason I reiterated my download Manhunt 2 point, is because back when it was banned, I never saw anyone agree with me on the idea. Go back to those 'Manhunt 2 banned in U.K' threads and see. My ego is fine and a reasonable size too.

As for your 360 jibe, its hold no water. The reason I mention The PS3 BC thing is because Manhunt 2 was due for release on PS2, so its logical to assume the PS2 version was what PS3 owners would have got. Having mixed BC on PS3 doesn't help. The 360, being close to a PC would more than likely get something similar version, which requires no use of BC. Just like how Bioshock came out on 360 and PC (each pretty similar), the same could be done here.

The reason Nintendo Sony etc don't want this kind of AO game on their console is based in the fear of retailers not stocking or selling it, so it goes back to the roots of the Manhunt 2 arguement. This is why I mentioned this despite and inconnection to the news post. I know what the post is about, thank you.

The issue of unrated games for retail and games for download is an interesting one. The big three maintain a strangely false stance that's not at all adjusted with time and industry progress. Makes a great mockery of having parental controls on consoles, if you are gonna back up such an out of date stance. Perhaps what's needed is a new game rating to cover these kind of games. Think about that for a sec.

Oh, I'm sorry. I won't bother importing it now you've warned me off it.

Perhaps you and I should check the law on importing games.







deleted 25 Oct 2007 15:32
9/20
Joji wrote:


Oh, I'm sorry. I won't bother importing it now you've warned me off it.

Perhaps you and I should check the law on importing games.


Not going to get involved with other aspects of you and Tyrions comments, but Tyrion makes sense.

Yes your right there is no law preventing the importation of unclassified media, but there is a law on using a moddified chip with in a console system in the UK, so you can import it but you legally cannot play it unless it is on PS3 or XBOX360 (region free) as for Wii its out of the window,

In re: to manhunt 2 is there any review or anything that makes players want this game other than a banned status, i never played the first one and i dont feel i missed anything and i dont htink my gaming is going to be effected in the least if i dont play this one, sure its bad it wont be release in the UK on console but so what there are plenty of better games around?

EDIT: http://news.spong.com/article/14116 as posted by spong.


Red_Breast 25 Oct 2007 17:57
10/20
Haritori from your post I can't tell if you presume Joji has a chipped Wii or maybe you know he/she does. Sorry Joji I don't get to Spong every day so I don't know your gender.
Anyway if it is chipped and you know that then fair enough but maybe Joji is in my position. I'm English. Live in the UK and my Wii is US NTSC.
Interesting reading the stuff about importing though. Say for example I ordered a copy from Play-Asia. Would they refuse? Could they get into trouble? Or is the risk totally down to me?
deleted 25 Oct 2007 18:00
11/20
Red_Breast wrote:
Haritori from your post I can't tell if you presume Joji has a chipped Wii or maybe you know he/she does. Sorry Joji I don't get to Spong every day so I don't know your gender.
Anyway if it is chipped and you know that then fair enough but maybe Joji is in my position. I'm English. Live in the UK and my Wii is US NTSC.
Interesting reading the stuff about importing though. Say for example I ordered a copy from Play-Asia. Would they refuse? Could they get into trouble? Or is the risk totally down to me?


if he has an NTSC why would he be concerned with the UK release of Manhunt 2 as it wouldnt be a problem for him as he would have to import anyhoo, unless his NTSC Wii is chipped, Yes/No?
tyrion 25 Oct 2007 19:08
12/20
Joji wrote:
I'm glad Rockstar are taking my advice.

Joji wrote:
My ego is fine and a reasonable size too.

Unless you are actually working in a position where Rockstar are able to take your advice, assuming they are doing something off the back of something you posted in a forum is not a sign of a healthy sized ego.

Joji wrote:
As for your 360 jibe, its hold no water.

It does hold water because you were advocating the downloading of Manhunt 2 - that's not possible on a 360 without a hard drive whether the game is a re-compiled PC version or running through BC. I made the comparison to BC to paraphrase your words, the point was that not every 360 has a hard drive, which still stands, or holds water if you prefer.
deleted 25 Oct 2007 19:23
13/20
tyrion wrote:
Joji wrote:
I'm glad Rockstar are taking my advice.

Joji wrote:
My ego is fine and a reasonable size too.

Unless you are actually working in a position where Rockstar are able to take your advice, assuming they are doing something off the back of something you posted in a forum is not a sign of a healthy sized ego.

Joji wrote:
As for your 360 jibe, its hold no water.

It does hold water because you were advocating the downloading of Manhunt 2 - that's not possible on a 360 without a hard drive whether the game is a re-compiled PC version or running through BC. I made the comparison to BC to paraphrase your words, the point was that not every 360 has a hard drive, which still stands, or holds water if you prefer.


Buckets with holes, that holds no water!, unless they are small holes and you are transporting it a small distance you may get some water to the point of arrival. But you would need to be quick! but becareful because if you are using the water from a lake to fill an engine up with a bucket with holes that is a small distance from the engine to the water , watch out for fish in your engine, although i suppose the fish could escape from the holes in the bucket that holds no water unless its a small holes with a short distance to travel and you are being quick but then the fish probly wouldnt escape unless they were small fish that could go through the small holes in a bucket with holes that holds no water?!
Joji 25 Oct 2007 22:10
14/20
You know what, say what you like Haritori, I'm still gonna play it regardless. The game is banned in the U.K for sale, and its not a decision I agree with. If I can't buy it here, I've yet to hear the BBFC etc, say I can't buy it outside of the U.K. This same thing extends to import games in general, especially ones that never see release in the U.K. I don't agree with their hypocritical rating of Manhunt 2 and that's why I'm planning to import a copy. Banning stuff always paints a forbidden fruit target onto whatever is banned, why do you think the Manhunt 2 leak will be downloaded by many people? Overall, as an adult, I need the chance to sample this game for myself, and I'd prefer to do so without downloading an illegal copy.

One of the gems in my collection is Xenosaga for PS2. Why? Because it was never released in the U.K, while parts two and three were (this is down to Square or whatever) released in the U.K. Same thing with Front Mission 4. Now while these games never got here for the reason Manhunt 2 didn't, I can still experience them via import. I grow tired of missing games for whatever dumb reason.

I don't have a Wii actually, but I do intend to get one or two perhaps (one import and one official), as its the only way to get those games we never see. But owning a two Wii like this is an option to overcome that and miss less games.

As far as mod chips go, why bother with them, just buy a second imported machine. The last mod chip I had was in my PS1 when I first purchased it in 97', and bizarrely it still working like a dream. Through it I've experienced some great import games, I'd never know existed. I don't regret getting it chipped for one second.

That's all I wrote on it. Agree, disagree, up to you.
deleted 25 Oct 2007 22:35
15/20
Joji wrote:
You know what, say what you like Haritori, I'm still gonna play it regardless. The game is banned in the U.K for sale, and its not a decision I agree with. If I can't buy it here, I've yet to hear the BBFC etc, say I can't buy it outside of the U.K. This same thing extends to import games in general, especially ones that never see release in the U.K. I don't agree with their hypocritical rating of Manhunt 2 and that's why I'm planning to import a copy. Banning stuff always paints a forbidden fruit target onto whatever is banned, why do you think the Manhunt 2 leak will be downloaded by many people? Overall, as an adult, I need the chance to sample this game for myself, and I'd prefer to do so without downloading an illegal copy.


Its not a decision any gamer agrees with, it takes away our own self awarness and responsibility to the point we are treated as children, its fine you want to sample the game but if you dont own a Wii, would you of got this other wise?

Joji wrote:
One of the gems in my collection is Xenosaga for PS2. Why? Because it was never released in the U.K, while parts two and three were (this is down to Square or whatever) released in the U.K. Same thing with Front Mission 4. Now while these games never got here for the reason Manhunt 2 didn't, I can still experience them via import. I grow tired of missing games for whatever dumb reason.


Thats great you own games you enjoy, and ones that are from japan only as i said there is no law importing games, but i suspect you arent importing manhunt 2 for the same reasons you imported Xenosaga. and how can you grow tired if missing games (for whatever dumb reasons), you can legally import non UK released games, you are directing this at Manhunt 2 how many other games did you miss for banning?, Thrill kill?? because i cant think of any others?

Joji wrote:
I don't have a Wii actually, but I do intend to get one or two perhaps (one import and one official), as its the only way to get those games we never see. But owning a two Wii like this is an option to overcome that and miss less games.


Why buy 2?, buy a US one and import all your games??

Joji wrote:
As far as mod chips go, why bother with them, just buy a second imported machine. The last mod chip I had was in my PS1 when I first purchased it in 97', and bizarrely it still working like a dream. Through it I've experienced some great import games, I'd never know existed. I don't regret getting it chipped for one second.


well when you had your PS1 it was legal to do so, (as to a reason the PS1 had so much success) but you imported those games again because they were just not released in this country not because they were banned.

Joji wrote:
That's all I wrote on it. Agree, disagree, up to you.


I suggest you read your comments again because none of that abocve was what you wrote on.
PreciousRoi 26 Oct 2007 05:29
16/20
tyrion wrote:
There's just one problem for 360? Can you guess what it is? All 360s have limited BC but only some of them have a hard drive? Thanks to Microsoft HDD mess up, many of you still won't be able to sample Manhunt 2 on 360, even if the BC can play it. Good one Microsoft, doh!

What the hell does the 360's BC, hard drive, or anything else have to do with this?
Is there a original Xbox version that isn't referenced and no one was actually mentioning?
Or were you comfusing and combining BC with DLC? I'm kinda working on this assumption, as you make more sense this way.

Anyone who wants BC and DLC on ANY 360 can get it (by adding or using a hard drive), this has been true since the 360 launch, and has not changed, nor is it likely to. The same cannot be said of BC on every PS3.

On to inflated egos...surprisingly not my own...nice of you to decree MS' SKU/pricing/hardware strategy as a "HDD mess up". You got some kind of statistics that have led you to believe this? Wouldn't surpise me at all knowing your penchant for that kind of thing. Or is this just some old-school tyrion MS hating? Uh...yeah...what I said...doh!

So it would really be illegal to import a game into the UK that has been denied a rating by the BFFC? Sounds fairly draconian to me...
tyrion 26 Oct 2007 08:24
17/20
PreciousRoi wrote:
On to inflated egos...surprisingly not my own...nice of you to decree MS' SKU/pricing/hardware strategy as a "HDD mess up".

FFS Precious, you're intelligent enough to recognise the paraphrasing I was doing in that post and not use it to try and prolong an argument. Please go back and read what Joji wrote and what I wrote, I even copied his sentence structure and typos. All I did was swap the emphasis onto HDD instead of BC because we're talking about DLC.

And yes, any Core can be upgraded with an HDD whereas, so far, the 40GB PS3 can't have BC added without Sony wanting it, but we all know that the take-up rate of peripherals is pretty low.
PreciousRoi 26 Oct 2007 09:00
18/20
Sorry, you give me too much credit. I didn't catch you switching to DLC. AFAIK, BC requires a hard drive, so the first time I was reading it I had to check and see if there was an Xbox version. I didn't come up with DLC until my third read through, and then I assumed you were saying one thing while meaning another (on accident). I also missed you copying his structure so exactly (Natually I caught the first two sentences), by the second reading I was totally focused on your words, since they didn't quite make sense now that I had verified that there was no Xbox version. Then I though it would be a BC DLC game, which didn't make sense either. If BC and DLC didn't both depend on the HDD I might have caught on before sticking my Croc in my oral orifice.

As for wishing to prolong an argument, I had no such intention. I certainly don't think that Joji has represented his position very well. That one bit just confused me at first, and then struck me as gratuitous and snippy (Since you were already nailing him on the whole ego thing). But that was my demonstrably flawed imterpretation of the moment.

Edit:On the subject of the subject at hand, it ain't gonna happen.
tyrion 26 Oct 2007 13:13
19/20
PreciousRoi wrote:
As for wishing to prolong an argument, I had no such intention.

Well, there's me leaping to conclusions as well then! :-)

PreciousRoi wrote:
Edit:On the subject of the subject at hand, it ain't gonna happen.

I like the sound of "On the subject of the subject at hand" - I wish more forums had that approach.
PreciousRoi 27 Oct 2007 09:41
20/20
Just sighted a mention of this on G4...in the single sentence they presented it less as a mere existence of a loophole than as an actual possibility though.
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