Nintendo's Iwata: Wii Can Beat PlayStation 2

I wouldn't say they are leaving the gamers for MS and Sony, it's just that the Wii will have a much more varied genre range of software then the 360 and ps3. The 360 and ps3 software titles will be more along the same lines as last-gen titles. Ok, the Wii's main feature is the motion sensing controller, yet we have seen what can be done with it and are still amazed at what else is coming from the Big N. (Yeah, kinda wondered off on that one there...)

I see a lot of people thinking Nintendo are leaving gamers to the 360 and ps3 because of the 'anyone can pick up and play' mentality that is surrounding everything developed for the Wii and those that are in the works right now... But you can't say games like Zelda, Red Steel, Blur, Madden, Dragon Ball Z (no not typing it all out as I can't remember it off my head) etc are for new gamers. Blur takes some getting use to... (haven't played mine for a while, guess I'll try and get some time for that tonight... Damn Mario Strikers! lol)... Madden I would say is another that needs getting use to. For just those titles, I wouldn't say Nintendo are leaving them out.

I hope you see where I'm coming from. And also, those titles I used as examples are what I own and found it more challenging then some of the others I have. Ok, Zelda not as much, but still...

Your "not casual" examples there are lacking in Nintendo-for-the-Wii-ness. Zelda was a Gamecube game with Wii controls grafted on to it, no matter how well they were grafted, you could still get the same game on the Cube. Mario Strikers is the only game there that was developed by Nintendo for the Wii, and it's a casual approach to football, rather than the more focused FIFA or PES games.

Look at the games that Nintendo were pushing at E3, it was mostly casual gaming with a few sops to the traditional gaming audience. The very fact that Miyamoto-san said that he was more excited about Wii Fit than either Mario Galaxy or Metroid Prime 3 speaks volumes about the internal attitude to gamers at Nintendo. And no amount of EA, Ubisoft or Namco games are going to make up for the direction that the platform owner is moving in.

Now contrast Nintendo's approach with those of Microsoft and Sony. They are both keeping their traditional gamers happy first and branching out into the casual market second. Perhaps they are just being cautious, but if all three drop the hardcore and pursue the casual market, what are those of us that have been gaming since the 70's and 80's going to play?

Well, one...everything Nintendo said at their E3 press conference was aimed at the mainstream press and should also be viewed but that.

Two, these non-games are still a minority to the all the 'real' games that Nintendo is making plus they take far less resources and time to make too but they bring in bucket loads of money so Nintendo can expand their teams (what they've been doing in the course of the years and still doing) to make more games of all the kinds.

Also, Nintendo is clearly aiming less recources at making DS-games since the handheld has come at the point that it can be fully sustain with third party games with occassional a Nintendo game (which Nintendo doesn't make themselve but they hired some small unknown team, which is a practice Nintendo is expanding).

With the Wii, and Mario Galaxy proves that, Nintendo has refound a way to make games like they used to be in the NES/SNES era. Simplistic on the surface, but with very deep gameplay nonetheless and in no need to use a dozen buttons. I'm still surprised at how they managed to have a game like Mario Strikers (which is too balanced and too fast-paced to be labelled 'casual', also, it has more explosions, electrucations and hitting people in a three-minute timespan then any "hardcore" actiongame, which begs the more urgent question...what the s**t is hardcore?) only using 4 buttons and the analog stick.

That's the path Nintendo will be walking now, financed by they're "non-games", they can re-invent all their franchises...gaming itself, back to the 8-bit/16-bit simplicity but with deep gameplay too. That's why the new Zelda is going to make while to be made. They want to re-invent Zelda like they did Mario in Galaxy, let's just hope it doesn't take 8 years for them to do it.

Also...if hardcore gaming is, like MS and Sony represents it, then it's doomed. Personally i see Halo as a act of mainstreaming hardcore gaming too, (now turning on the logic 'hardcore gamers' accuse Nintendo of ending gaming as we know it) what's hardcore about a shield that recharges...nothing! It's noobinizing the entire genre...and what the s**t is this dual-analog aiming set-up, it only works because expercienced gamers have the skills and motivation to learn it...but it locks out everyone that wants to game for fun without having to memorize what the dozen of buttons do.

The second analog stick is becoming useless. It's still usefull because the huge majority of the developers don't put in any effort to make a good automatic camera, which, after the N64, you would think they have figured that out by now...

Good thing these are Spong forums, not the GAF-forums where they have declared Nintendo the destroyer of gaming as we know it...well...they did create it, so it would be fitting they'd destroy it.

Sometimes I feel like throwing my arms in the air and shouting 'Damn you, Nintendo', but with deeper thought on their new casual approach, I believe they might be on the right track, for them and us. I must add it scares the hell out of me, that gaming might end as we know it, and morph into some bastard mainstream beast. This is why I have a 360 and DS though.

I have to try put my fears aside, as I know well that Nintendo are always protecting today be planning well for tomorrow. They know they aren't always right, and if they aren't they seek to address and fix things.

First, remember there can be more games made by Nintendo by making more money from casuals and ploughing it into both casual and traditional games. Development talent is nurtured well in japan, so new ideas are always coming. I feel that casual gamers aren't gonna require as many games as traditional gamers like you and me, who buy 1-3 or so games a month.

Once those ladies (and guys too) get their hands on a Wii board and Wii Fit, Nintendo will be tapping into so much money, that the games industry has neglected for several years. DDR was close to this, but lacks the brand name of Nintendo, which is why it done well but is still considered a traditional game. I think Wii will redefine that mentality, once DDR hits Wii too, especially if it has online play.

Mario Galaxy, Metroid 3, Fire Emblem, We should hopefully see these before years end on Wii. 2008 is where Wii will really take off, as its games at last go online and offer more content, and also as more third parties realise where the real money is now, and create more games for Wii.

I still feel Nintendo should do more to court third parties, and one thing, that might help them in the quest I feel, is a Wii hard drive. They might think its not wanted, but if Nintendo released this, I think more third parties will take them seriously, to the point where Xbox style quality games can be created and pushed with ease on Wii. Even bloody 20 or 40 gb would do, just enough to aid Wii games and store WVC content. I still pray that they realise this would help more than hinder Wii, (til they do one properly, perhaps in Wii 2).

Can Wii beat PS2? I think so eventually, especially once Wii Fit is out.

I think Nintendo is providing a new and unique way of playing as well as targetting outside of the gaming market and with the attitude of this we will see some fantastic sales and software to come, but at the same time i dont believe they are leaving gamers behind with, mario galaxy, mario kart, metroid etc all showing they remember us as well, i think nintendo`s problem is nothing themselfs but 3rd party devs need to see the bigger picture, for the wii to be as successful as the DS/PS2 3rd party support needs ramping up and im not talking ports `good or bad ports` but new orignal content with unique gameplay twist and experinces, also i believe if nintendo continues to give us new ways to play and not stop at the wiimote (balance board) with new and different ways to play then the wii would not need updating for a long time, remember the goal of nintendo is not to introduce new gamers into the market through graphics but through gameplay the Wii could easily do over ten years before a graphical upgrade would be required, but only if 3rd party support if extended (big time) and that nintendo continues to bring forward new ways to play.

Could you please explain this more....the parts that aren't just plain wrong, don't make any sense....


Are you just mad as hell at hardcore MS/Sony gamers and lashing out here?
Well, I'll tell ya yobbo, it makes you want to hide until it recharges. This is very strategical. In multiplayer, this is very significant. In single player, well, if you think the shield noobotomizes anything, you're outright insane, clinically bonkers. Furthermore, it behaves close enough to what an actual piece of hardware of that type might, if indeed possible at all, given our imperfect knowledge of future technologies. It has a reasonable premise of operation which is easily reverse engineered by anyone with a technical frame of mind and any imagination whatsoever. Obviously after the shield fails, the flux capacitors need to recharge. See, Halo isn't just some FPS that someone thought up, then clad in some lame backstory. Its got gravitas and dichotomy (trichotomy) and a bunch more words that score well on Scrabble, and that is very hardcore (much more hardcore than say, Doom 3). In the classic SF cliche, it turns out that humans are the masters of projectile weapons and missiles. In (one of) the opposing roles we find the energy weapons, wielded by the fanatical races of the Covenant. Then theres the Flood, who are themselves bioweapons, but who are most vulnerable to and capable of wielding projectile weapons (capable of but less likely to wield energy weapons). So Master Chief is of all three at once. He is a bioweapon, with an armored exoskeleton, and an energy shield. And really, noobotomizing the whole genre? Blame trend following idiots, don't blame Halo.

What are you even talking about here???Are you actually complaining about the dual analog stick setup that made FPS on consoles viable (yeah, I said it, Goldeneye doesn't count and it sucked)??? Becasue the previous alternative was keyboard and mouse and you were bitching about a bunch of buttons and stuff... You want to race cars, first learn to drive like its second nature. You want to play FPS on console, learn to use dual analog sticks until you can do it on a subconscious level. Maybe, someday, motion sensing technology (or something better) will replace teh dual sticks, but not tomorrow.

Yes, this does mean that any normal person with no gaming experience who gets a 360 controller thrust into their hands and gets unleashed on Halo 3 on LIVE! will get their MIJOLNIR covered ass handed to them while their friends who can game, watch and try not to laugh too hard, (some will of course be shouting things into their ear like, "SHOOT HIM!", "LOOK TO YOUR LEFT, USE YOUR RADAR!", "TURN AROUND!" "OH MAN HE STUCK YOU, YOU'RE F**KED!" in an attempt to help) becasue they really want you to love it and become 'one of us'. Everyn00b must make it through this d@rk va11ey of teh s0ulz on their own.

As I reflect further both these issues of yours appear conflicting. On the one hand you bemoan the energy shield which in your misguided opinion is (I like noobotomizing better) the 'whole genre'. Then you complain about the Dual Analog Sticks because they're too 1337 for teh n00bz. wth? I think you're dead wrong on both counts. Shield is not for teh n00bz, and DAS are part of learning process by which n00bz lose their n00bituide, as it applies to console FPS' of course. Nothing but knoweldge of teh UNIX can truly lift the stain of original n00b from us, except the absolution of the FSM.
Ra-men.

Being forced to duck doesn't make a game more strategic, it makes it even more watered down because a real hardcore gamers jumps into action and bunnyhops you crazy. But because Master Chief can't even outrun turtoises because of the enormous backward control scheme that is dual-analog, moving fast is not a option anymore if you want to sell copies. See how dual-analog and recharge shields does noobinize everything...it made FPS-gaming into a slow-paced skill-less pile of pus, perfect for the mainstream. Just to bad dual-analog aiming is the most backward control innovation ever conceived and makes everything overcomplicated for any newcomer.

Also, Goldeneye is still a superior game then Halo just because Mr. Bond actually feels like he's running and not shoveling around like he's almost about to drop dead. Also in Goldeneye you to strategize even more then in Halo because if you f**k up in Goldeneye, there's no backdoor recharge shield to save your noob-ass. So strategie and Halo...Halo has tactics, but strategy,not in a million years. Also, Goldeneye only reuses two leveldesign two times, not all the time everywhere like Halo did. Also...double-wielding not being sold as an innovation but a normal thing that every FPS should have had after Goldeneye...whoopsie!

So yes i'm very happy to see that Metroid Prime 3 has the pace of bloody F-Zero GX, because that's what everyone will be copying when making a FPS or the Wii. Single-analog control and actually aiming where you are pointing makes everything more fast-paced, more intuïtve and more skill-based, you can't get it more hardcore.

Hey look, i made sound arguments without my post being meaningless insults for like...99% of the time!

bleh, your concept of 'hardcore gamer' is rooted in hyper-realism, PC games from years ago apparently...bunnyhops do not a hardcore gamer make, its a technique thats applicable in a narrow band of FPS, and I've always found it to be rather distasteful. Any 'hardcore gamer' worth his salt has more tricks up his sleeve. And I think that there are plenty of 'hardcore gamers' who prefer a more realistic, tactical shooter who never bunnyhop at all. I'd like to see a n00b get past the first level of Halo 2 on the highest difficulty...not gonna happen. Motion and aiming technologies just arent always applicable, its still in the class of 'gadget' or 'toy'. Hell theres still plenty of people living vomfortably under the aegis of 'hardcore gamer' that won't abandon a keyboard and mouse...and you think now you have the one ultimate answer of all hardcoredness?

You also sidestep the question of which way you prefer it? You're still bitching about how n00b Halo is while complaining that its not easy enough for teh n00bz...

Look, just admit that you were spouting off in response to some equally moronic comments made by alleged "hardcore gamers" disparaging your precious Wii as being "not 'core", so your feelings got hurt and you decided to attack (a) Halo (holy cow). Thereby hurting both MS and Sony's feelings because, well, Sony dont got nothing as good as Halo...so you extol bunnyhopping as 'core, though the leading proponents of said hopping are PC gamers and would dismiss your Wii as "not 'core", unless you could have 64 player matches and hook up a keyboard and mouse...Personally I think its got more to do with the people than the hardware, myself, but I don't think the motion sensitive stuff is as ubiquitously appliccable and mature as it needs to be.

Offcourse i know that. It was a overly-dramatic sarcastic answer to all the whining bitches who declare Nintendo the maker of a new crash. I know that there are different kind of 'hardcore' you got the traditional ones who will burn everything that doesn't use two analog sticks and accuse Nintendo of mental propoganda, while not seeing that believing that dual-analog control is so 'hardcore' is propoganda in itself. Halo is the starter of it and the complaints i made, albeit overexaggerated, are just.

Just ask the unreal or fortress fans, they see Halo as the coming of evil to water down their beloved FPS-games and want to see it burned. Then you have the more innovation-driven hardcore, who see stuff like Eye-toy or WiiFit and think "Oh My God, that would so good when used on a platformer or a shooter game!!!" And then you have a whole lot of people between the extremes.

Also to answer you're question. In terms of gamedesign, Halo has noobinized FPS-gaming (the shield, the slower movement of every character) but it's control-method makes it too complicated and is linked to one of it's gamedesign decisions, the slower speed...in the afterthought that newcomers wouldn't be too scared of. So yes, Halo did introduce a lot watering down gamedesignmechanics for the FPS-genre. The controlmechanic (dual-analog aiming) you have to see as something seperate because those gameplaymehanics have been carried over to PC FPS-games, thank god not in a general way.

The harder difficulty results out of enemies having higher HP and you getting more damage, couple that with dual-analog aiming and yes, higher difficulties will be impossible for noobs. But why can't higher difficulty result in better/faster AI-behavior then this easy "it's the same as the easy setting, now you just need to pump more iron in them" backdoor. I hear so much about this gen bringing even better AI to the table but still they use the same mechanic to beef up the difficulty... I want to see some smart progressive designing in my games, not some lazy cookie-cutter ways we had for the last decades.

But i do see the point that seeing this controlmechanic as backwards is linked to my TFC/UT inbred preference. So I recognize the appeal of slower-paced FPS because some people do get fed up of the high-competitive atmosphere of people jumping around like horny Duracellbunnies and i'm happy those people have their games too. I just don't like those people suddenly calling themselve "the hardcores" for no reason at all and seeing the enormous hypocrism they trow themselves in.

OK so you admit that you were exaggerating, but then you work to justify your exaggeration, which sorta negates any props you'd have accrued from merly admitting it. You also apparently conflict with yourself frequently. As to the thats closer to you (see below quote)...dual analog stick users are more hertical than traditional yeah, thats them, if TFC/UT isn't 'traditional hardcore' I just don't know what is....only they adhere to the more orthodox practices of keyboard and mouse. (Its Energizer, get it right, me ma is one of teh bunnyz minions)


Halo did't start the fire...
You can't blame a perfectly good game (even if it isn't your particular Darjeeling) becasue its popular, which is in essence what I'm seeing. Thats just stupid, for instance I don't hate CounterStrike because of the annoying hordes of prepubescant arguments for post term abortions that played it. I hate CounterStrike because I don't like to be rushed when I'm shopping.

I mean "Halo started it"? Thats right up there with "Why don't you marry them?". Besides its patently incorrect. Those lousy PS2 fanboys (also of the PAPTS clan) started it. 'Course some of those jerks have since jumped ship to the 360 and now probably for the vocal core of the rank and file 360 fanboigruppen. I think you just had a run in with some of them and feel it neccesary to retalitate.

And no there aren't "different kinds of hardcore", theres different kinds of interests...your 'innovation-driven hardcore' are just gadget freaks...and I surely don't see dual analog wielders as some kind of monolithic junta determined to keep a Wii-loving ex-PC gamer down.

Halo didn't even pioneer the dual analog stick control scheme, though it did popularize the current default scheme. So I guess you've confirmed that you're abandoning the "Halo is too hard for teh n00bz" anti-analog sticks argument in favor of the conflicting "Halo is too easy for teh n00bs" argument...nah I still don't buy it, you're just ragging on Halo for no good reason. I also categorically reject your assertion that I see dual analog aiming as anything due to anything having to do with PC games.

I like dual analog aiming. I've liked it ever since the first time I remember using it. As soon as I got my mitts on a DualShock I abandoned the d-pad and never looked back. The only relation between dual analog and keyboard and mouse games is they both deal with movement/orientation in 4 axes, unless you're counting the jump button (I'm not). I would contend that you see Halo's speed as having some kind of ulterior motive becasue you're all about the hypereal hyperspeed and half-mile vertical leaps. Therefore your invention of a dual analog stick hardcore cabal dedicated to n00botomizing the very games they hold dearest. Makes perfect nonsense to me.