Manchester Bishop Continues To Bash Sony
Set in a mosque it would have caused uproar...
The Bishop of Manchester, Right Reverend Nigel McCulloch
The Bishop of Manchester, Right Reverend Nigel McCulloch, has gone on air on BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine show this afternoon apparently to defend his position on decrying the use of Manchester Cathedral in the PlayStation 3 game Resistance Fall of Man. Rather than bringing unity, reason and peace to the situation McCulloch appeared to blame the British Government for not taking a stand.
Speaking on the show, the bishop claimed that had the fictional setting for the alien versus human battle taken place in a mosque, "questions would have been asked in the House (of Commons)" and the game would have been withdrawn.
The bishop may have liked to consult some history before fanning the flames of religious sectarianism. Back in 2002, the Sikh community managed to get thousands of copies of Eidos' Hitman 2 pulled from shops in Great Britain. The game had featured the very real depiction of the Sikh's holiest site - Harimander Sahib, also known as the Golden Temple at Amritsar - where, in 1984, hundreds of Sikhs were massacred when Indian troops stormed the temple.
The British government did not intercede in this case - the game was withdrawn because a petition was raised by the Sikh community.
The bishop's 'defence' of "if it was the muslims then the government would have got involved" will do nothing whatsoever to ensure that Manchester or any other city in Great Britain remains free of violence.
McCulloch also widened the argument away from his own cathedral and into videogaming per se by stating that "some research from the United States" has gone some way to proving a link between videogame playing and real life violence.
Rather than quote a source for the research, the bishop moved on. SPOnG phoned the show in order to get comment or a reference to the research. We were told, "No, he didn't quote any sources".
We have also contacted the bishop's press office in order to get our hands on the research that proves a link between videogames and violence. As yet we have had no response to any of our questions via telephone or email.
There is one solid fact regarding a link between external stimulus and real-world violence: reading literature that states that your deity is better than another deity has lead to the murders of the Inquisition and the Crusades.
Speaking on the show, the bishop claimed that had the fictional setting for the alien versus human battle taken place in a mosque, "questions would have been asked in the House (of Commons)" and the game would have been withdrawn.
The bishop may have liked to consult some history before fanning the flames of religious sectarianism. Back in 2002, the Sikh community managed to get thousands of copies of Eidos' Hitman 2 pulled from shops in Great Britain. The game had featured the very real depiction of the Sikh's holiest site - Harimander Sahib, also known as the Golden Temple at Amritsar - where, in 1984, hundreds of Sikhs were massacred when Indian troops stormed the temple.
The British government did not intercede in this case - the game was withdrawn because a petition was raised by the Sikh community.
The bishop's 'defence' of "if it was the muslims then the government would have got involved" will do nothing whatsoever to ensure that Manchester or any other city in Great Britain remains free of violence.
McCulloch also widened the argument away from his own cathedral and into videogaming per se by stating that "some research from the United States" has gone some way to proving a link between videogame playing and real life violence.
Rather than quote a source for the research, the bishop moved on. SPOnG phoned the show in order to get comment or a reference to the research. We were told, "No, he didn't quote any sources".
We have also contacted the bishop's press office in order to get our hands on the research that proves a link between videogames and violence. As yet we have had no response to any of our questions via telephone or email.
There is one solid fact regarding a link between external stimulus and real-world violence: reading literature that states that your deity is better than another deity has lead to the murders of the Inquisition and the Crusades.
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Comments
hollywooda 11 Jun 2007 13:46
1/16
See even God's up for a bit of Sony bashing!! haha...
Another Dave 11 Jun 2007 13:55
2/16
Hasnt God created this game in some way if the bible is to be beleived? Why is he criticising his own work?
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TimSpong 11 Jun 2007 14:03
3/16
Another Dave wrote:
Hasnt God created this game in some way if the bible is to be beleived? Why is he criticising his own work?
Ah no, this brings us into the whole "freewill thing" - you know, "you have the freedom to choose not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, but if you do, well, it's kick-out, original sin, and wrath time."
Bob Fossil 11 Jun 2007 14:04
4/16
Another Dave wrote:
Hasnt God created this game in some way if the bible is to be beleived? Why is he criticising his own work?
By this logic, God also created crack cocaine, hardcore pornography and kiddy-fiddlers as well as widespread poverty, starvation and catastrophic environmental damage. Yeh. THANKS, GOD!
tyrion 11 Jun 2007 14:26
5/16
Tim Smith wrote:
but if you do, well, it's kick-out, original sin, and wrath time."
Forever, unto the utmost generation, with no hope of reprieve.
Make sure you prostrate yourself weekly and perhaps confess of your transgressions to a man in a dress and you may be OK.
But he loves you.
Joji 11 Jun 2007 15:03
6/16
Nothing to thank god for. We had it so good in the garden of Eden apparently, but being good is far from interesting and fun. The lure of the unknown is always great. Damn Eve, good thing you picked that apple.
To think freely and create under your own power and influence, is the kind of thing the church doesn't like. They'd like to do that for you. Say anything against them and they don't want to hear it or reason with you, because the bible is their only back up, so all you get is quotes from their fave pages and nothing from their caged, brainwashed mind.
No wonder the young have such apathy for the church or religion in general. I don't blame the kids at all.
To think freely and create under your own power and influence, is the kind of thing the church doesn't like. They'd like to do that for you. Say anything against them and they don't want to hear it or reason with you, because the bible is their only back up, so all you get is quotes from their fave pages and nothing from their caged, brainwashed mind.
No wonder the young have such apathy for the church or religion in general. I don't blame the kids at all.
crs117 11 Jun 2007 16:05
7/16
Joji wrote:
Nothing to thank god for. We had it so good in the garden of Eden apparently, but being good is far from interesting and fun. The lure of the unknown is always great. Damn Eve, good thing you picked that apple.
To think freely and create under your own power and influence, is the kind of thing the church doesn't like. They'd like to do that for you. Say anything against them and they don't want to hear it or reason with you, because the bible is their only back up, so all you get is quotes from their fave pages and nothing from their caged, brainwashed mind.
No wonder the young have such apathy for the church or religion in general. I don't blame the kids at all.
To think freely and create under your own power and influence, is the kind of thing the church doesn't like. They'd like to do that for you. Say anything against them and they don't want to hear it or reason with you, because the bible is their only back up, so all you get is quotes from their fave pages and nothing from their caged, brainwashed mind.
No wonder the young have such apathy for the church or religion in general. I don't blame the kids at all.
i have a biblical quote for you...john 11:35.
Bob Fossil 11 Jun 2007 16:34
8/16
crs117 wrote:
Joji wrote:
Nothing to thank god for. We had it so good in the garden of Eden apparently, but being good is far from interesting and fun. The lure of the unknown is always great. Damn Eve, good thing you picked that apple.
To think freely and create under your own power and influence, is the kind of thing the church doesn't like. They'd like to do that for you. Say anything against them and they don't want to hear it or reason with you, because the bible is their only back up, so all you get is quotes from their fave pages and nothing from their caged, brainwashed mind.
No wonder the young have such apathy for the church or religion in general. I don't blame the kids at all.
To think freely and create under your own power and influence, is the kind of thing the church doesn't like. They'd like to do that for you. Say anything against them and they don't want to hear it or reason with you, because the bible is their only back up, so all you get is quotes from their fave pages and nothing from their caged, brainwashed mind.
No wonder the young have such apathy for the church or religion in general. I don't blame the kids at all.
i have a biblical quote for you...john 11:35.
err, which is?
ICANSEEU 11 Jun 2007 16:52
9/16
jesus wept...................
config 11 Jun 2007 16:53
10/16
Bob Fossil wrote:
crs117 wrote:
i have a biblical quote for you...john 11:35.
err, which is?
About time for a coffee run?
DoctorDee 11 Jun 2007 17:14
11/16
Rather than just stand by and taking this bullpoop, I'd like to see Sony respond by bashing the bishop.
It needed saying.
It needed saying.
Joji 11 Jun 2007 17:32
12/16
I'm sure Jesus would weep often because the churches own demon, which they don't like to talk about. The christian church has killed a lot of people and desicrated a lot of other religions sacred grounds for real. Are we supposed to for get that because it wasn't yesterday? I know they want us to, ask them about it and they shut it up quickly.
I just think the real Mc'Coy should get their own house in order, before worrying about a damn church building in a game. Imsomniac are an american developer, so why on earth would they care what goes on in Manchester day to day? It's possible some of the Imsomniac crew might have visited as tourists, who knows.
Another point, seeing as cathedrals are made to a similar design plan, how does the Bishop not know that influence wasn't taken from a similar church elsewhere?
With Assasins Creed due soon, are they gonna have a go at that too? Hey stop him, he's wearing a cross tunic.
I just think the real Mc'Coy should get their own house in order, before worrying about a damn church building in a game. Imsomniac are an american developer, so why on earth would they care what goes on in Manchester day to day? It's possible some of the Imsomniac crew might have visited as tourists, who knows.
Another point, seeing as cathedrals are made to a similar design plan, how does the Bishop not know that influence wasn't taken from a similar church elsewhere?
With Assasins Creed due soon, are they gonna have a go at that too? Hey stop him, he's wearing a cross tunic.
crs117 12 Jun 2007 07:07
13/16
Joji wrote:
I'm sure Jesus would weep often because the churches own demon, which they don't like to talk about. The christian church has killed a lot of people and desicrated a lot of other religions sacred grounds for real. Are we supposed to for get that because it wasn't yesterday? I know they want us to, ask them about it and they shut it up quickly.
I just think the real Mc'Coy should get their own house in order, before worrying about a damn church building in a game. Imsomniac are an american developer, so why on earth would they care what goes on in Manchester day to day? It's possible some of the Imsomniac crew might have visited as tourists, who knows.
I just think the real Mc'Coy should get their own house in order, before worrying about a damn church building in a game. Imsomniac are an american developer, so why on earth would they care what goes on in Manchester day to day? It's possible some of the Imsomniac crew might have visited as tourists, who knows.
agreed...(ps i love your witch headline on the other topic.)
-c
config 12 Jun 2007 08:44
14/16
Joji wrote:
Imsomniac are an american developer, so why on earth would they care what goes on in Manchester day to day? It's possible some of the Imsomniac crew might have visited as tourists, who knows.
Yesterday we cranked up Resistance again to confirm what was available in the campaign mode. As I described in the thread for the original news story, the campaign (story) mode set the cathedral as a field hospital, and the only casualties are your troops and the Chimera soldiers and dozens of their evil little crab/face hugger critters. There's no human-and-human slaying
However, in the 40 player version of the Manchester multiplay map, you can also enter the cathedral. In this mode you get free reign over the area, and using the neat springboards you can get onto the roof. Several things are evident;
The game's cathedral is clearly inspired by Manchester cathedral, closely resembling the footprint of the building. However the detail only runs to the structure and stonework - the internal decor (beyond the columns, vaulted roof and some panelling) doesn't not match that of the decor. In essence, the game portrays the shell of the cathedral.
In multiplayer, the cavernous interior is broken up with wooden walkways, barricades and springboards that launch you though the collapsed ceiling and onto the roof - it looks less like the real cathedral than the campaign mode. However, being multiplayer, anyone can opt to be a human, so in deathmatch mode there's the potential for a lot of homicide.
The surrounding area looks nothing like the real cathedrals settings - it's clearly been set up for better gameplay over realism (just like the cathedral, really)
I still think that the assertion of copyright infringement is nonsense, and this affair will ultimately do the Christian faith more harm in the eyes of today's youth than its freaky, cult-like Alpha Course can do it good.
mrben43 12 Jun 2007 14:44
15/16
There is one solid fact regarding a link between external stimulus and real-world violence: reading literature that states that your deity is better than another deity has lead to the murders of the Inquisition and the Crusades.
Have you got a reference for that research?
TimSpong 12 Jun 2007 15:49
16/16
mrben43 wrote:
There is one solid fact regarding a link between external stimulus and real-world violence: reading literature that states that your deity is better than another deity has lead to the murders of the Inquisition and the Crusades.
Have you got a reference for that research?
Damned fine question and well put. I think we've been here before, however, as these come from the Bible itself, and the Bible was the 'jumping off point' for both the Inquisition(s) and the Crusade(s), I figure these should serve as basic research.
Deuteronomy 17:12 wrote:
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.
Chronicles 15:12-13 wrote:
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 wrote:
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Or, we can turn to the Pope - in this case the Address Of Pope John Paul II
To An International Symposium On The Inquisition - Saturday, 31 October 1998.
Pope JP II wrote:
4. Ladies and Gentlemen! The problem of the Inquisition belongs to a troubled period of the Church’s history, which I have invited Christians to revisit with an open mind. As I wrote in the Apostolic Letter Tertio millennio adveniente: “Another painful chapter of history to which the sons and daughters of the Church must return with a spirit of repentance is that of the acquiescence given, especially in certain centuries, to intolerance and even the use of violence in the service of the truth” (n. 35).
Now, I know there are also guidelines for righteous murder of real people in the tracts of many other religions - so these are just some basic references.
Even good old Buddhism has a wee crack in it, justifying killing real life people:
Yogacarya Bhumi Shastra wrote:
Suppose a bodhisattva sees that a vicious robber intends to kill many people for the sake of wealth; or intends to harm virtuous shravakas, pratyekabuddhas, or bodhisattvas; or intends to do other things that will cause him to fall into the Uninterrupted hell. When seeing this, the bodhisattva will think, "If I kill that person, I will fall into the hells; if I do not kill him, he will commit crimes which will lead him to the Uninterrupted hell, where he will suffer greatly. I would rather kill him and fall to the hells myself than let him undergo great suffering in the Uninterrupted hell. Then, deeply regretting the necessity for this action, and with a heart full of compassion, he will kill that person. In doing this, he does not violate the bodhisattva precepts; instead, he generates many merits."
'Heart full of compassion" and everything...
I can't recall any game manual ever saying, "In the event that you don't finish level 4 because your little brother hath smited your knee with his pacifier, your training wilt thence divine it okey-dokey to smite him unto death so'est thou might carry on to the boss level."