Resistance Fall Of Manchester? Sony Slammed By Church
We got permission for cathedral use
The east window at Manchester Cathedral
Sony's PlayStation 3 game, Resistance Fall of Man has been dragged into a argument of morality and copyright with the Church of England over scenes from the game that are set in the nave of Manchester Cathedral.
The BBC quotes the Bishop of Manchester, the Rt Revd Nigel McCulloch, as stating that, "It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem. For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have guns battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible.
"Here in Manchester we do all we can to support communities through our parish clergy. We know the reality of gun crime and the devastating effects it can have on lives. It is not a trivial matter."
He is supported by the Dean of Manchester Cathedral, The Very Revd Rogers Govender, who states,"This is an important issue. For many young people these games offer a different sort of reality and seeing guns in Manchester Cathedral is not the sort of connection we want to make."
But the issue appears also to be related to whether Sony received permission to reproduce the interior of the cathedral in the game. The Times reports Sony Europe representative, David Wilson, as saying,"It is game-created footage, it is not video or photography. It is entertainment, like Doctor Who or any other science fiction. It is not based on reality at all. Throughout the whole process we have sought permission where necessary."
SPOnG is currently trying to discover whether the playwright and poet T.S. Eliot received permission to set stage of Thomas Beckett in Canterbury Cathedral in his play Murder In The Cathedral; or whether BBC itself received permission for then final scene of monster murder in 1953's The Quatermass Experiment.
Some media outlets are also claiming that the Church of England is demanding that Sony remove its million-selling game from the shelves.
For those of have not played the post-apocalyptic Resistance Fall Of Man, you can read our review right here.
The BBC quotes the Bishop of Manchester, the Rt Revd Nigel McCulloch, as stating that, "It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem. For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have guns battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible.
"Here in Manchester we do all we can to support communities through our parish clergy. We know the reality of gun crime and the devastating effects it can have on lives. It is not a trivial matter."
He is supported by the Dean of Manchester Cathedral, The Very Revd Rogers Govender, who states,"This is an important issue. For many young people these games offer a different sort of reality and seeing guns in Manchester Cathedral is not the sort of connection we want to make."
But the issue appears also to be related to whether Sony received permission to reproduce the interior of the cathedral in the game. The Times reports Sony Europe representative, David Wilson, as saying,"It is game-created footage, it is not video or photography. It is entertainment, like Doctor Who or any other science fiction. It is not based on reality at all. Throughout the whole process we have sought permission where necessary."
SPOnG is currently trying to discover whether the playwright and poet T.S. Eliot received permission to set stage of Thomas Beckett in Canterbury Cathedral in his play Murder In The Cathedral; or whether BBC itself received permission for then final scene of monster murder in 1953's The Quatermass Experiment.
Some media outlets are also claiming that the Church of England is demanding that Sony remove its million-selling game from the shelves.
For those of have not played the post-apocalyptic Resistance Fall Of Man, you can read our review right here.
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Comments
Tuomas Salo 9 Jun 2007 14:06
1/13
Remember that it was Sony who also had a live goat slaughtered and its innards offered by bare-breasted women for game journalists to eat - all this to advertise another of their ultra-violent games, God of War II.
I see a pattern here...
I see a pattern here...
Joji 9 Jun 2007 18:07
2/13
To start Resistance was developed by Imsomniac but because, the general public and church don't know any better they'll point the finger at Sony.
I have to be honest here, (even though its been a while since I've come to bat for Sony) the church have no case. If this case goes anywhere near a court it would be a disaster for anyone of a creative mind. So you can't take influence from anything in reality now, not even a church building? How dumb and short sighted. Films do this kind of thing all the time. Perhaps only if it goes to court, the point can be made that games are for all ages and not just kids.
While part of the game is set in Manchester, its got nothing to do with the current gun violence problem. Developers and publishers are the kind of people who don't do politics when their job is to entertain an audience with games. Why should games get political because that's what the public feel everything should be about, because to do so you'd then have to look at all other similar cases in films and books too. Imsomniac are based in Burbank, California, why should they get involved in local crap, when they more than likely went through the right channels to get the look their games needed. Bet you can find plenty of church pictures on the net anyway.
With the Goat stuff, Sony didn't actually have a live goat slaughtered as many think, they goat was purchased from butcher dead and displayed in the context of an ancient greek offering, as was the custom in those days. Nothing wrong with that, infact its a clever bit of promotion for God of War 2, because now we'll never forget it. Its already a piece of gaming legend.
What's funny here, is that its okay for the art world to display dead sharks and cows in an art gallery, but a dead goat provokes outcry because its involved in promotion of a game. Because some of the uneducated masses still believe games are still for kids only.
Sony and Imsomniac have nothing to apologise for.
I have to be honest here, (even though its been a while since I've come to bat for Sony) the church have no case. If this case goes anywhere near a court it would be a disaster for anyone of a creative mind. So you can't take influence from anything in reality now, not even a church building? How dumb and short sighted. Films do this kind of thing all the time. Perhaps only if it goes to court, the point can be made that games are for all ages and not just kids.
While part of the game is set in Manchester, its got nothing to do with the current gun violence problem. Developers and publishers are the kind of people who don't do politics when their job is to entertain an audience with games. Why should games get political because that's what the public feel everything should be about, because to do so you'd then have to look at all other similar cases in films and books too. Imsomniac are based in Burbank, California, why should they get involved in local crap, when they more than likely went through the right channels to get the look their games needed. Bet you can find plenty of church pictures on the net anyway.
With the Goat stuff, Sony didn't actually have a live goat slaughtered as many think, they goat was purchased from butcher dead and displayed in the context of an ancient greek offering, as was the custom in those days. Nothing wrong with that, infact its a clever bit of promotion for God of War 2, because now we'll never forget it. Its already a piece of gaming legend.
What's funny here, is that its okay for the art world to display dead sharks and cows in an art gallery, but a dead goat provokes outcry because its involved in promotion of a game. Because some of the uneducated masses still believe games are still for kids only.
Sony and Imsomniac have nothing to apologise for.
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ajmetz 9 Jun 2007 18:18
3/13
I haven't played the game, but isn't it set in an alternate reality, a post apocolyptic 1950s, where Britain has been reduced to rubble, and you're fending off aliens?
If the church was still standing in the game, it would be a miracle. ^_^
Kinda like seeing half the statue of liberty at the end of Planet of the Apes.
Has anyone seen the church in-game, and can they explain that part of the game for us?
If the church was still standing in the game, it would be a miracle. ^_^
Kinda like seeing half the statue of liberty at the end of Planet of the Apes.
Has anyone seen the church in-game, and can they explain that part of the game for us?
Joji 9 Jun 2007 19:20
4/13
That's just it, it is set in an alternative reality, but I notice they never mentioned that vital piece of information on the news, or that you are fighting aliens and not people.l
Lol, hey aliens, would you mind not attacking us in our church please. We'll meet you on to resume fighting outside in ten minutes.
I pray Sony and Imsomniac stand their ground, the whole games industry need to get behind the on this.
Lol, hey aliens, would you mind not attacking us in our church please. We'll meet you on to resume fighting outside in ten minutes.
I pray Sony and Imsomniac stand their ground, the whole games industry need to get behind the on this.
config 9 Jun 2007 20:53
5/13
It's a game set in an alternate past where England is being overrun by virus that turn people into horrible mutant creatures. The game is about your battle to liberate the country. It's not GTA, for (their) god's sake.
Now I haven't played the multiplayer version of the Manchester map, but the campaign takes you into the cathedral where your squad is overwhelmed by nasty little crab-like critters leaving only you to mop up two Auger-totting bad asses, a couple of dog-like mofos and a handful of grunts. This isn't some man-on-man gun battle, it's you versus the aliens, with laser guns (ok, so there are machine guns, but wy use then instead of laser guns?)
Also, in the game the cathedral was being used as a hospital - so there's no pulpit or altar, just a few pews and a bunch of metal frame beds and free-standing shelves. It looks NOTHING like the cathedral pictured in this story - i.e. no "copyright" infringement to answer to (if such a thing is possible) - anyway, doesn't copyright lapse over a 70+ years?
This outcry is utter f**king nonsense - business as usual for the men in funny clothes that talk about magic, quoting from the world's oldest work of fiction. What makes it even funnier is that the game has been on the shelves in the UK for over 2 months, and just now they're having a hissy fit over it.
What's next? Bizarre Creation hauled over coals for encouraging street racing in New York, and infringing the architectural copyright of the Empire State building? Sony getting sued for every architect that designed a building in central London because they were re-created in Getaway?
Pffft
Now I haven't played the multiplayer version of the Manchester map, but the campaign takes you into the cathedral where your squad is overwhelmed by nasty little crab-like critters leaving only you to mop up two Auger-totting bad asses, a couple of dog-like mofos and a handful of grunts. This isn't some man-on-man gun battle, it's you versus the aliens, with laser guns (ok, so there are machine guns, but wy use then instead of laser guns?)
Also, in the game the cathedral was being used as a hospital - so there's no pulpit or altar, just a few pews and a bunch of metal frame beds and free-standing shelves. It looks NOTHING like the cathedral pictured in this story - i.e. no "copyright" infringement to answer to (if such a thing is possible) - anyway, doesn't copyright lapse over a 70+ years?
This outcry is utter f**king nonsense - business as usual for the men in funny clothes that talk about magic, quoting from the world's oldest work of fiction. What makes it even funnier is that the game has been on the shelves in the UK for over 2 months, and just now they're having a hissy fit over it.
What's next? Bizarre Creation hauled over coals for encouraging street racing in New York, and infringing the architectural copyright of the Empire State building? Sony getting sued for every architect that designed a building in central London because they were re-created in Getaway?
Pffft
config 9 Jun 2007 20:55
6/13
Tuomas Salo wrote:
Remember that it was Sony who also had a live goat slaughtered and its innards offered by bare-breasted women for game journalists to eat - all this to advertise another of their ultra-violent games, God of War II.
I see a pattern here...
I see a pattern here...
Then you're jumping at shadows - imagined shodows at that.
Joji 9 Jun 2007 21:27
7/13
They have been discussing this on Radio Five Live, in what seems like a very one sided argument in favour of these religious muppets. Do call them if you can while the topic is still hot or tune in, 0500 909 693.
If the church did take this to court I doubt if they would win, Sony got permission fair and square. What hasn't been made clear on Sky news or Radio 5, is that to back up their argument they'd have to look at Resistance in the context of the games creation and story. They cleverly skipped over this part though, but it does need to be highlighted. Other information like the fact the church is also used as a hospital will also be missed, because all the church mongers see is guns but not why they are being used in the game.
In many stories and films especially, sometimes the church is the last retreat when in trouble, have a look at Sleepy Hollow or Silent Hill here. So in resistance, in the 50's the church would be considered this way still.
The location of Manchester is one of many in the game, set around the u.k. No relational link to Manchester's current gun crime problem is relevant, when the game is set in an alternative 1950's universe. On top of that, Manchester had a gun problem long before this game arrived. Games do not put guns on the street, people do. I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Thompson was behind this one somewhere.
As for gun crime, that's down to the government, who banned owning guns legally, driving them underground and into the hands of crims. Now the threat is unseen and games are somehow to blame again.
If the church did take this to court I doubt if they would win, Sony got permission fair and square. What hasn't been made clear on Sky news or Radio 5, is that to back up their argument they'd have to look at Resistance in the context of the games creation and story. They cleverly skipped over this part though, but it does need to be highlighted. Other information like the fact the church is also used as a hospital will also be missed, because all the church mongers see is guns but not why they are being used in the game.
In many stories and films especially, sometimes the church is the last retreat when in trouble, have a look at Sleepy Hollow or Silent Hill here. So in resistance, in the 50's the church would be considered this way still.
The location of Manchester is one of many in the game, set around the u.k. No relational link to Manchester's current gun crime problem is relevant, when the game is set in an alternative 1950's universe. On top of that, Manchester had a gun problem long before this game arrived. Games do not put guns on the street, people do. I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Thompson was behind this one somewhere.
As for gun crime, that's down to the government, who banned owning guns legally, driving them underground and into the hands of crims. Now the threat is unseen and games are somehow to blame again.
Ian 10 Jun 2007 01:02
8/13
Frankly I find the arguments made by the Church a little difficult to take seriously. The possibly legal ramifications if Sony failed to get all relevent permission to use the image of the cathedral I can understand, but the idea that it could promote gun violence is ludicrous. The game is set in a fictional past, against non-human fictional enemies. The only people who might see this as an incitement to real-life violence would have to be so unbalanced as to pose a danger to society whether they played Resistance or not.
headcasephil 10 Jun 2007 02:01
9/13
any s**t to make games look bad as all other things they try don't work what going to be next pac man makes you do drugs and go to underground raves
tyrion 10 Jun 2007 11:09
10/13
phil cort wrote:
any s**t to make games look bad as all other things they try don't work what going to be next pac man makes you do drugs and go to underground raves
Well why don't we fight back?
How many of us can get to Manchester Cathederal this week? What if we all made a reasonable donation and told any clergy member we saw that we were only prompted to view the building because we saw it in a computer game? No arguing, no raised voices, just a calm assertion that we thought the building looked interesting in the game and we wanted to see it for real.
How many people would it take before they got the message do you think?
ajmetz 10 Jun 2007 20:53
11/13
tyrion wrote:
phil cort wrote:
any s**t to make games look bad as all other things they try don't work what going to be next pac man makes you do drugs and go to underground raves
Well why don't we fight back?
How many of us can get to Manchester Cathederal this week? What if we all made a reasonable donation and told any clergy member we saw that we were only prompted to view the building because we saw it in a computer game? No arguing, no raised voices, just a calm assertion that we thought the building looked interesting in the game and we wanted to see it for real.
How many people would it take before they got the message do you think?
Watch out, they'd try and brain wash you with religion...! Tempting you with orange squash and biscuits, and Sunday School fun and games. =P Unless it's one of those touristy cathedrals you walk around and gaze at, and then put money in a box. But I don't wanna pay them to sue Sony.
It's not just videogames, I get annoyed at how many middle east news reports come from a Christian bias, when I believe our national leanings ought to be Atheist or Agnostic, and thus hopefully more objective. I hate it when the media automatically assumes western culture = christian. I think as a result too, they give far too much importance to christian religious figures on TV, that usually say pretty backwards things. That said, if a court case of The Church V.S. Sony went ahead, that'd be quite news worthy, and funny, but for all the wrong reasons. =P Perhaps this is some crude way of the Church trying to get within the frame of reference of youngsters? I kept the news on just to see the piece about videogames, and thus got to hear what the church had to say. Good PR for them? Unfortunately, it was like an elderly relative turning up late to your house party, and completely misunderstanding how to dance. =P
Still, for all the violence crap, if they felt they didn't have permission, and they have a good enough case to be compensated, then maybe they can start earning money/royalities. Didn't BT kick up a fuss over some vans that appeared in...was it The Getaway or GTA? Maybe a cheap way for Sony to alter the game to protect the Church's image, would be to spray grafetti all over it, till its unrecognisable. Quick swap of texture maps if you will. Maybe then the Church would be happy....=P
Oh, no, sorry, the Church is never happy...
config 11 Jun 2007 08:48
12/13
ajmetz wrote:
Perhaps this is some crude way of the Church trying to get within the frame of reference of youngsters?
Then they just shot themselves in the foot (gun reference not intentional, but sweetly ironic)
All the kids will be pissed at the Church for trying to control one of their favourite forms of entertainment.
ajmetz wrote:
Oh, no, sorry, the Church is never happy...
Funny that, given all that "tolerance" stuff they spout.
jordanlund 11 Jun 2007 16:26
13/13
If anyone wants to complain, here's the contact address for Manchester Cathedral:
manchesterdbf@manchester.anglican.org
I suggest you remember, this is a church. Be polite but firm. Here's mine:
"I just read of your attack on a video game... Let me emphasize the word "GAME". I have to say this is the most ridiculous waste of time I've ever seen.
You have no more control over what programmers put into a game than you would over what a novelist uses as a scene in a book. To imply that video game players are incapable of telling the difference between fantasy and reality, particularly when that fantasy involves defending the planet from wicked aliens, is quite beyond the pale.
The game "Resistance: Fall of Man" has absolutely nothing to do with disrespecting the church in general or Manchester Cathedral in particular. It does nothing to encourage people to bring guns to church, which is the main implication of your complaint. All in all all your complaint is doing is making the church look even more clueless to the youth of the world and make them less inclined to take part in church services.
I encourage you to drop the matter before it ends up making you look even more silly than it does now. Issue a nice apology along the lines of "We're sorry we implied that gamers can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality when in fact it was our own perception that was clouded." and let the matter drop."
manchesterdbf@manchester.anglican.org
I suggest you remember, this is a church. Be polite but firm. Here's mine:
"I just read of your attack on a video game... Let me emphasize the word "GAME". I have to say this is the most ridiculous waste of time I've ever seen.
You have no more control over what programmers put into a game than you would over what a novelist uses as a scene in a book. To imply that video game players are incapable of telling the difference between fantasy and reality, particularly when that fantasy involves defending the planet from wicked aliens, is quite beyond the pale.
The game "Resistance: Fall of Man" has absolutely nothing to do with disrespecting the church in general or Manchester Cathedral in particular. It does nothing to encourage people to bring guns to church, which is the main implication of your complaint. All in all all your complaint is doing is making the church look even more clueless to the youth of the world and make them less inclined to take part in church services.
I encourage you to drop the matter before it ends up making you look even more silly than it does now. Issue a nice apology along the lines of "We're sorry we implied that gamers can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality when in fact it was our own perception that was clouded." and let the matter drop."