Interviews// Def Jam Rapstar: James Waller & Jamie King

SPOnG: Being as respectful as possible, you guys must have looked at that game and took note of what they got right and wrong. What were some examples of the things you noted?

Jamie King: I don't know about James, but I booted it up, looked at that first ten seconds of bathroom and... yeah, I'd seen it. Off. From a design point of view – and this might be dangerous – we don't play a lot of SingStar. We don't play a lot of Lips. There's a purity in not knowing what's been done, not looking backwards.

Yeah, you run the risk of someone going and doing the same thing – market awareness is important – but we didn't want to cloud our thinking with what's been done before. It's very exhilarating and tricky sometimes in design to kind of throw things out there blind. It just made us think how easy it would be to fuck this up and fall short. There's so much more about the spirit of hip-hop and performing and your presence.

It's like James said, the game's not going to score you on your swagger and fashion and how you look. The community will. And you're never going to get that with pre-conceived environments and avatars. It had to be about you and your talent, and having the balls to just stand up and let go, and express yourself.

James Waller: Yeah, the five minutes I spent with the game it was just... it was more the music. I can't connect with someone singing Snoop Dogg's lyrics, and me rapping with someone else. I can connect with me rapping with Snoop Dogg and so to me that was one of the things that we wanted to avoid.

ecause we had the relationships in the music industry, we can go and get the masters for the records so you'll be rapping with Snoop. You won't be rapping with me re-recording Snoop's lyrics.

The feeling is different when you hear Snoop's voice on Gin & Juice. I mean it feels a lot different, especially when you see the video being played in front of you, instead of just standing in a random corner in a video game as an avatar that doesn't really look like you. Rapstar feels more personal, more involved. That was just one thing that we looked at, there. We thought 'you know what, it might be better if you just make the person who's playing the game feel a little more involved.'


SPOnG: Was that a consideration when you decided on the tracklist? How did you guys decide what to pick in terms of Rapstar's lineup?

James Waller: We didn't avoid any tracks that were in other people's games. I feel that we – Def Jam – are hip-hop. So if you have like, one hip-hop track in your game, that's not going to stop us from putting that track in our game. Your game is not hip-hop. So when we wanted to make the song list, we locked ourselves in a room and just had at it. You know, we just asked what 45 songs we would want to see in a Def Jam Rapstar game.

Jamie King: You walked out of one of those meetings, didn't you James?

James Waller: Yeah, I did. Somebody named a song, and I was like, 'What!? No way!' And the people in the room put their hands up for a vote and the song got in! Of course, the song is not in there anymore, but I was thinking 'I'm not going to do this anymore if you guys put that song in there!' (Laughs) I was dead serious.

It's important to us. You know, guys would be in the office and they would be going at it, not because they're just assholes but they really care about this game. This game means something to me, you know? I'm not just making a game to sell units and line our pockets. I want to make something that people who love hip-hop can be proud of.

Jamie King: Also, getting that 45-song tracklist is really hard, because there are so many good songs. We looked at the last 30 years, we looked at the Billboard 100, we took songs that we thought we anthems.

We really were thinking about the gamer, right, because not every song can automatically translate itself into an entertaining gameplay experience. Some tracks that we wanted, we just couldn't get the parts, or there'd be a sample that we couldn't get clearance on. It is very difficult, clearing all this music, even with the help of Def Jam. Without them, the challenge would be insurmountable. With those guys working really hard it's been a labour of love for all music labels.


SPOnG: Finally, about the social networking side of things – how do you plan to integrate that into other networks and online lifestyles? People are comfortable with Twitter and Facebook, are they really going to want another one to add to that? What's your ultimate goal with this feature of the game, as well? Looking for the next Dizzee Rascal?

James Waller: Yeah, we set out to create an environment that wasn't like the tree in the forest that nobody hears, because nobody's there. We integrated existing social networks heavily in our product. That's part of the promotion of the videos – you can't just depend on people who log onto Def Jam Rapstar every day. You've have to use your social network, and the crew you have already amassed to push your content.

And ultimately, you win based on the votes you get for your videos, but there's going to be someone who gets discovered through this. Because someone is going to come on our network that's so dope, it would be undeniable that somebody would take them in and give them a chance to do this for real.

That's what makes our game stand out – if you can freestyle with the tracks we give you, you can do it in real life. There's nothing stopping you from doing it as an artist because it's translatable. We're not trying to beat Facebook. We're not trying to beat Twitter. We're not trying to beat MySpace. We're not trying to outrank those guys. We just want people to buy our game and enjoy the awesome experience.


SPOnG: Thank you for your time.

James Waller: Thanks a lot!

Jamie King: Thank you.

Def Jam Rapstar will be hitting the UK on 5th November.