Interviews// Jack Thompson - The SPOnG Exclusive Interview
Money Talks, People Mumble
My greatest triumph is my marriage. My greatest failure happens everyday. I'm a sinner and a fallen creature. I have plenty of people to remind me of that, plus the mirrors I own. Doug Lowenstein should buy mirrors like mine.
A sinner and a fallen animal? Tell us more? What's the worst thing you've ever done?
I'm a sinner, which is why I became a Christian. Worst thing I've done? Probably had a kind thought about Doug Lowenstein.
Who funds your work on videogame related litigation?
Nobody.
Nobody funds me in any fashion whatsoever. That's why I'm free to be as obnoxious as I want to be. Dave Walsh, on the other hand, has the manners of Emily Post and the tactics of Take-Two. I'll take my approach any day.
[b]David Walsh, founder of National Institute on Media and the Family, recently distanced himself from your work. He said that, “…your commentary has included extreme hyperbole and your tactics have included personally attacking individuals for whom I have a great deal of respect. I believe that respect is essential in all our dealings, including respect for those with whom we disagree. Some of the people that you have publicly criticized are not only people of integrity, but are people who have worked to improve the lives of children.”[/b]
See above. There is more, but the bottom line is that Dave Walsh got some very bad advice from the retailers, and it backfired on him. I'm still standing.
Right now, in your opinion, for how many violent deaths are videogames responsible?
Who the heck knows? The FBI, Secret Service, and other law enforcement agencies have documented many of them. I didn't document them. The law enforcement community has. It's kind of a silly question, if you think about it. Not every murder in this country is fully understood as to what has contributed to it, but we know many in which the games have contributed. Law and Order SVU even did an episode on the copycatting of Grand Theft Auto. I was portrayed in the show by a guy with better hair than mine. So even the entertainment side of NBC understands they copycatted. They did their research by just watching my eight appearances on NBC's Today Show. It's a great episode.
What is your goal, Jack? If the world listened to your concerns and took action, what would be the optimum outcome for you?
All I have tried to do is stop the distribution of mature and adult games to minors. That is how it works in Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, other countries. It works there. Here, the 'M' labels mean absolutely nothing. They actually market the 'M' games to kids, and the kids can still buy them. The 'gamer community' likes to say I want to ban all games or that I am trying to keep mature games out of the hands of people over 17. That's absurd. Like I say, they make it up as they go along. When you can't refute someone, you just make something up about them, and then knock down that fiction. Ask Dave Walsh how it is done.
Why hasn't the US done anything to change this? Is it the case that a child of any age can enter a games store in the US and buy Grand Theft Auto games?
My generation understands that money dictates what laws get passed in this country. George Bush is in Blank Rome's back pocket, and Blank Rome is in Take-Two's back pocket. Follow the money. That's why we have no laws protecting kids from adult/mature games. The industry has spread the money around on The Hill and elsewhere. Plus, the federal judiciary is way to the left on these issues. But that is changing, and I've been privileged to be part of the process that is now causing people to realize that kids should not be allowed to buy adult products, of any kind. Common sense eventually trumps the extremist views of the ACLU on the First Amendment.
Whatever, Jack Thompson is around to stay, probably a good thing really. Imagine if the world were left to us to run unsupervised…[/i]
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Comments
marmaduke 18 Oct 2005 12:20
1/14
Lovely interview.
His eventual goal of regulation I agree with- he's not after banning things, just stopping kids playing them. That's fair enough. As yr man David Walsh says... http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers/walsh.html
It's just a shame he's such a belligerent dickhead.
His eventual goal of regulation I agree with- he's not after banning things, just stopping kids playing them. That's fair enough. As yr man David Walsh says... http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers/walsh.html
It's just a shame he's such a belligerent dickhead.
YenRug 18 Oct 2005 14:09
2/14
It still leaves me gobsmacked that Jack Thompson refuses to see that the people, who are influenced by videogames, are almost certainly mentally disturbed already. Most gamers recognise that there are some people who will be affected by what they experience, whether it be violent films or violent videogames, but there is an underlying problem there already and the question should then be one of: did it cause them to commit violence, or was it a symptom? There are millions of gamers around the world who never commit a crime, let alone a violent one, and yet those who commit murder that could be contributed to videogames can be counted in their hundreds at the very worst, in the tens being more realistic. So, because a few disturbed individuals have been exposed to videogames, every other gamer has to be painted as a raving lunatic, who is ready to go on a murder spree at the drop of a hat?
I noticed he dodged the question of limiting firearms, too. Anything to do with being buddies with Charlton Heston, aka President of the National Rifle Association? The wide availability of firearms in the USA obviously has nothing to do with people being able to go on mass murder sprees, oh no, not at all. I mean, whilst the USA is happy to allow its citizens possess assault rilfes and machine guns, there are more people being murdered with knives in Japan than ever before. Quick, let's ban knives!
What was his comment about Clinton? Something about restricting sales of videogames, recognising the fact that it might prompt someone to pick up a gun and go kill people? Hmmm, would make sense for people not to have the gun to pick up, too. But, of course, that's not going to happen because the right to shoot someone is protected by the Bill of Rights, whoops, the right to bear arms. Silly me...
I noticed he dodged the question of limiting firearms, too. Anything to do with being buddies with Charlton Heston, aka President of the National Rifle Association? The wide availability of firearms in the USA obviously has nothing to do with people being able to go on mass murder sprees, oh no, not at all. I mean, whilst the USA is happy to allow its citizens possess assault rilfes and machine guns, there are more people being murdered with knives in Japan than ever before. Quick, let's ban knives!
What was his comment about Clinton? Something about restricting sales of videogames, recognising the fact that it might prompt someone to pick up a gun and go kill people? Hmmm, would make sense for people not to have the gun to pick up, too. But, of course, that's not going to happen because the right to shoot someone is protected by the Bill of Rights, whoops, the right to bear arms. Silly me...
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jonno394 18 Oct 2005 14:14
3/14
That made for an excellent read tbh, and my opposition towards Jack has lowered quite a bit. His aim, which is to stop kids playing these games, not to outright ban them, but to make it impossible to sell them to minors is an honorable one, and something I would like to see happen. These games weren't made for kids though, and in the end, it is the parents fault that they play them, not Rockstars or Take-Two.
However, that does not justify his attacks on gamers and the industry alike, which in the most instances are uncalled for.
However, that does not justify his attacks on gamers and the industry alike, which in the most instances are uncalled for.
Greg2k 18 Oct 2005 15:29
4/14
I must say that I firmly agree with Thompson's goal of banning sales of games to age groups for which those games weren't made for; that's just really common sense.
The thing is he could achieve so much more if he toned down his voice, and really fought to solve the problem. I think he's way too obsessed with Take-Two and Eibeler to see the real problem. All you need to do is rally a bunch of people and say "We don't want people under the age of 17 to be able to buy games made for people 17 and older". That's a message everyone understands, since it relates to pornography and R-rated movied pretty easily. In all fairness, it should have been that way since the beggining. And no company, no matter how dirty it is, will want to oppose this.
At the same time, I think there are irrensponsible companies out there. I think that while Take-Two and Rockstar have the right to produce what they feel fit, they're not at all concerned about the problem the industry faces with the age regulation. So the system isn't working; don't make it even worse by making games like Bully, which are frankly of bad taste, but could be perfectly legitimate if the system was working properly. By making games like GTA and Bully before the age regulation system is fixed, there's a very high chance that most of the buyers of those games will be under the recommended age.
The thing is he could achieve so much more if he toned down his voice, and really fought to solve the problem. I think he's way too obsessed with Take-Two and Eibeler to see the real problem. All you need to do is rally a bunch of people and say "We don't want people under the age of 17 to be able to buy games made for people 17 and older". That's a message everyone understands, since it relates to pornography and R-rated movied pretty easily. In all fairness, it should have been that way since the beggining. And no company, no matter how dirty it is, will want to oppose this.
At the same time, I think there are irrensponsible companies out there. I think that while Take-Two and Rockstar have the right to produce what they feel fit, they're not at all concerned about the problem the industry faces with the age regulation. So the system isn't working; don't make it even worse by making games like Bully, which are frankly of bad taste, but could be perfectly legitimate if the system was working properly. By making games like GTA and Bully before the age regulation system is fixed, there's a very high chance that most of the buyers of those games will be under the recommended age.
tyrion 18 Oct 2005 16:22
5/14
Greg2k wrote:
By making games like GTA and Bully before the age regulation system is fixed, there's a very high chance that most of the buyers of those games will be under the recommended age.
What is "broken" about the age rating system? Both the PEGI and ESRB systems are voluntary systems. In the UK games can be rated by the BBFC (who rate films and DVDs) at the option of the publisher.
The rating systems mostly work - the GTA:SA Hot Coffee content being the only notable exception I can think of where a "not quite correct" rating was given.
The problem is that the systems are not enforceable by law in either case. Only BBFC rated products are in the UK, not PEGI. So in the main, age ratings can only be guides to parents. If the parents don't care, or don't understand, then there needs to be education.
I have seen stories that many people take the age ratings on games to be an indicator of the difficulty of the game, like a jigsaw puzzle or something. Maybe ELSPA and the ESA needs to put adverts in newspapers and during Corrie or Lost to educate parents on what the age ratings actually mean?
Pilot13 18 Oct 2005 18:40
6/14
I actually know what you mean about age ratings being related to difficulty. My mum got me Rainbow Six when I was twelve (I thinki) even though it was 15. I think it was 15 because it was pretty violent in the sense you can shoot hostages and bash guns around. But my mum just thought it was meant to be too hard for my age group. It was, but only because I couldn't be arsed to see what the controls were.
But I think there's a problem. Like here in the UK, it's illegal to sell a kid GTA unless an 'adult' gets it for you. That's all swell, but parents will cave in almost all the time, and kids will still pick it up. This is because physically the games are rarely sorted by age rating on the shelves so you have Manhunt next to Monkey Ball. Then they have posters and fancy tag lines all over the box appealing to any easily impressionable kid.
But I think there's a problem. Like here in the UK, it's illegal to sell a kid GTA unless an 'adult' gets it for you. That's all swell, but parents will cave in almost all the time, and kids will still pick it up. This is because physically the games are rarely sorted by age rating on the shelves so you have Manhunt next to Monkey Ball. Then they have posters and fancy tag lines all over the box appealing to any easily impressionable kid.
lavalant 19 Oct 2005 01:06
7/14
Never thought I would say it but; pretty much agree with Jack.
I just think he goes about it the wrong way, he should be working with the gaming community instead of against them.
video games are now the no1 form of entertainment, did jack not play with action man when he was a kid? if he continues to degrade gamers then he degrades the majority of young adults, and whats that going to achieve.
I dont consider myself sad becuase i play games, i find it more stimulating than sitting like a potato watchin TV, at least you are engaged, challenged and can interact. some of jacks comments have pissed me off (not enough to kill him mind you ;)
so come on jack, your going to achieve nothing if you dont change your approach.
I just think he goes about it the wrong way, he should be working with the gaming community instead of against them.
video games are now the no1 form of entertainment, did jack not play with action man when he was a kid? if he continues to degrade gamers then he degrades the majority of young adults, and whats that going to achieve.
I dont consider myself sad becuase i play games, i find it more stimulating than sitting like a potato watchin TV, at least you are engaged, challenged and can interact. some of jacks comments have pissed me off (not enough to kill him mind you ;)
so come on jack, your going to achieve nothing if you dont change your approach.
LR 19 Oct 2005 03:06
8/14
You think games are largely a waste of time, Jack? They’re dangerous?
I guess Christianity is one big, fluffy ball of kittens and Bibles then, huh? The Spanish Inquistion, the Crusades, slavery, Pope Pius XII and the Nazi Holocaust, sexual molestation by priests – ringing any bells?
And you think our hobby is a dangerous waste of time…
I guess Christianity is one big, fluffy ball of kittens and Bibles then, huh? The Spanish Inquistion, the Crusades, slavery, Pope Pius XII and the Nazi Holocaust, sexual molestation by priests – ringing any bells?
And you think our hobby is a dangerous waste of time…
xerox 19 Oct 2005 06:05
9/14
[QUOTE]All I have tried to do is stop the distribution of mature and adult games to minors. That is how it works in Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, other countries.[/QUOTE]
New Zealand does not stop the distribution of adult games. Games are rated and treated like movies. Selling it to someone under 18 carries the same offense as videos and movies. If you are 18 you can buy it, simple. They are rated by the national censor as well, so parents see the exact same label on a game as they do on a dvd! Simple and effective.
We accuse him, he accuses us - vicious circle continues
New Zealand does not stop the distribution of adult games. Games are rated and treated like movies. Selling it to someone under 18 carries the same offense as videos and movies. If you are 18 you can buy it, simple. They are rated by the national censor as well, so parents see the exact same label on a game as they do on a dvd! Simple and effective.
We accuse him, he accuses us - vicious circle continues
Mattyd242 19 Oct 2005 13:34
10/14
It's all well and good him saying that "knife murders are up in Japan", but that statement hardly tells the full story. It's common knowldge that Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
I did a little digging for the figures and found that Japan's murder rate in total is about 0.63 per 100,000 of the population. By comparison, the United States' figure is 6.38 murders per 100,000. this despite Japan being the world's foremost producer of games and also home to an extremely violent media.
Perhaps I'm splitting hairs over this but this kind of generalised sweeping statement is what makes Our Friend Jack look like such an apoplectic loon. He reminds me of the Reverend in GTA: Vice City :)
I did a little digging for the figures and found that Japan's murder rate in total is about 0.63 per 100,000 of the population. By comparison, the United States' figure is 6.38 murders per 100,000. this despite Japan being the world's foremost producer of games and also home to an extremely violent media.
Perhaps I'm splitting hairs over this but this kind of generalised sweeping statement is what makes Our Friend Jack look like such an apoplectic loon. He reminds me of the Reverend in GTA: Vice City :)
config 20 Oct 2005 09:48
11/14
xerox wrote:
All I have tried to do is stop the distribution of mature and adult games to minors. That is how it works in Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, other countries.
New Zealand does not stop the distribution of adult games. Games are rated and treated like movies. Selling it to someone under 18 carries the same offense as videos and movies.
That's what he said; "stop the distribution of mature and adult games to minors"
Making it an offence is the most effective way of doing this short of banning them outright.
In the US it is not illegal to sell an M-rated game to a minor, except for California and it's fresh new laws on the very subject.
DoctorDee 21 Oct 2005 18:27
12/14
Jack Tool wrote:
any human being with a life and a conscience can justify spending any considerable time playing games in what amounts to useless mental masturbation that helps absolutely no-one.
But whether his aims are noble or defendable or whatever. This guy is a f**king dickwad. A s**tty f**king pile of puke.
How can he f**king write off the hobby of MILLIONS of people so off hand, and so f**king indefensibly. By his definition, reading Shakespeare, going to the opera, reading the classics - all the things I'm sure he and his republican WASP friends do - are useless mental masturbation. Art, literature, cinema, theatre - why should anyone with a life and a conscience waste time on these things.
What a fooking tool.
Silver Bull3t 31 Oct 2005 20:28
13/14
Try spending more time criticizing the RETAILERS and less time insulting the CONSUMER.
Yes, kids shouldn't be able to buy or rent the violent games...great idea no doubt.
Yes, kids are influenced by what they see and participate in.
No, videogames aren't a determining factor(probably even .01%) for violent behavior in kids. They learn that crap from HOME, TV, and especially the "NEWS". Your rant about Columbine is OFF-BASE!.. REMEMBER ALL THE COPY-CAT SCARES AFTER THAT?.. THINK IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ROUND THE CLOCK SENSATIONALISM on TV and radio news?.. maybe just a tad? (Seems like you're very familiar with sensationalism Mr. Thompson).
I'm sorry but I can't even understand why there is such hoopla over this issue... The answer is DON'T SELL THESE GAMES TO KIDS, PERIOD. There, I just saved millions of dollars in litigation.. Whoops! NO WONDER A LAWYER IS STIRRING THIS POT!!!
I guarantee that even if they outlawed ALL VIDEOGAMES there would be NO statistically significant difference in these kind of tragic crimes/violent behavior.
Remember kids, LAWYERS are trained LIERS. All they want is someone to blame so they can prosecute and make $$$.
Yes, kids shouldn't be able to buy or rent the violent games...great idea no doubt.
Yes, kids are influenced by what they see and participate in.
No, videogames aren't a determining factor(probably even .01%) for violent behavior in kids. They learn that crap from HOME, TV, and especially the "NEWS". Your rant about Columbine is OFF-BASE!.. REMEMBER ALL THE COPY-CAT SCARES AFTER THAT?.. THINK IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ROUND THE CLOCK SENSATIONALISM on TV and radio news?.. maybe just a tad? (Seems like you're very familiar with sensationalism Mr. Thompson).
I'm sorry but I can't even understand why there is such hoopla over this issue... The answer is DON'T SELL THESE GAMES TO KIDS, PERIOD. There, I just saved millions of dollars in litigation.. Whoops! NO WONDER A LAWYER IS STIRRING THIS POT!!!
I guarantee that even if they outlawed ALL VIDEOGAMES there would be NO statistically significant difference in these kind of tragic crimes/violent behavior.
Remember kids, LAWYERS are trained LIERS. All they want is someone to blame so they can prosecute and make $$$.
jacks_rage 3 Nov 2005 02:14
14/14
And God says, "Hey, leave Me out of this. I've never seen this douche before in my life."
Well, there you have it, even God thinks that this guy is a douche. I'd like to take this time to nominate him for biggest douche on the planet. Will anyone second the nomination?
Well, there you have it, even God thinks that this guy is a douche. I'd like to take this time to nominate him for biggest douche on the planet. Will anyone second the nomination?