Rebellion CEO: UK Should Celebrate GTA IV

yes but under 15 it depends on how under 15 thay are as if it was xbox live thay are not allowed to have a live account unless over 13 and with playstation network you have to have perental pomition less over 18 i now there is no way to inforce this bar making it so you can have account only if you can prove your age but the fact thay put this on the suevice that thay are using says somthing i mean iv been on live play cod4 at about 11pm so kids should be in bed and there thay are and most of the time thay act like kids wich yes thats what there ment to but hay i remamber beeing a child and respecting my elders this dose not happen any more and i feel that it should

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The issues (littering, smoking, alleged drinking and drug use) were real, but what they really objected to was the kids congregating in a public place. Rather than encouraging proper behavior in a more supervised location (the courthouse lawn is very open, nowhere to hide), they merely forced such behaviors to other, less public locations, which was what they wanted, but not what they admitted to, as that would have made it clear that they were just bullies. As it was it enforced the teenagers justified impression of authority as hypocritical. One of the comments I heard was that such congregations of teenagers was "ghetto"...to my eyes there is nothing more ghetto than a proliferation of "No Trespassing, No This, No That" signs such as exists now.

One you start treating laws as merely means to an end, you undermine the entire system of justice. Laws should be something more that tools.

How can these children be expected to respect their elders when their elders refuse to demand or even ask them to?

I would love to see verifiable age limitations instituited on LIVE!...with the same ability to report suspected offenders as for other unaccpetable behaviors...if I want to host or join a 21 and over game I should like to have that capability. I have one person on my friends list who is a minor child...he is a mature, considerate young person, and usually plays with his father. I could just as easily be insulated from the remainder.

But child advocates would no doubt point out the possibilities for abuse in such a system...

exactly, its not the problem in just gaming but society and parents who cant be bothered because its too much hard work to instill values and morals, i wonder are these parents and children in a minority or a majority?

Its easier to do nothing, then blame someone else when it all goes wrong (or do nothing, while blaming someone else), than to be a parent as we would remember the term meaning. No one has the courage of their convictions, it seems, when confronted my their offspring.

I think the Rebellion guy is right, the U.K celebrates JK Rowlings books, Lloyd Webbers musicals and brit films, but they do nothing similar about games, apart from the at awards ceremonies. They need to start doing the same for games.

With regards to runaway youth and societal problems, there's first a big lack of listening and understanding going on buy government and local authorities and the youths in question. True, youth should respect their elders and such, but respect is a two way street, that begins with adults and ends with youths. Therefore, if adults swallowed their pride and attempted more communication with more youth, the majority of problems could disappear.

A move along from here policy never works, unless you give them a better alternative and something constructive to do.

I think government should get kids into part time work at an earlier age. Even if its only an hour or two a week, they'd earn money to use in their spare time. Give them free passes to sporting activities.

Damn, I'm tired of raging about this.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that this is the factor for every single adult-to-child purchase of something like GTA4. Adults for the most part really don't have a clue as to what ratings labels mean, what the content inside is all about and how it could be damaging to their kid.

I think saying that adults are able to make an informed choice on whether their underage kid can handle a violent video game is giving them far too much credit than they're due. Most of them never play games and seem to be under the illusion that video games are solely for children!

When adults and parents start realising that video games are a viable medium for all ages, akin to cinema, then they will begin to understand certain implications a game might have.

In this modern day and age there isn't room for "Do as I say, not as I do."

Adults and government do not appreciate how subtly and deeply the institutionalized hypocricy that has become prevalent in society affects children's developing attituides toward authority. "Leadership" by fiat as it is currently practiced is ineffective in the long run, as well as utterly unacceptable and dangerous. Kids have too much access to history and information to fall for such a medieval strategy of behavior control...yet it is clung to.

When I was a child police were your friends, there to keep you safe. Nowadays kids know better...and I can't always, or even usually say that they are wrong. As adults we much expect and indeed demand more of ourselves, before we can in good conscience demand it of our successors...and that is what we are training in the arts of hypocricy, our successors. Unfortunately, we must demand respect from them now, but we should at least have the decency to feel ashamed of ourselves for doing it and admit such.

I disagree, while this may be true of the vast majority, by assuming that it is always the case you insult and disenfranchise the very parents who actually DO take the time to know their children and what they are doing. Perhaps they do not agree with the theory that violent videogames are bad for children, perhaps they know their children and intend to closely supervise them. These are their parental rights (as opposed to telling everyone else what they can do) and government or anyone else attempting to abrogate their responsibilities in this respect is dangerous ground.

I mean, we aren't talking about actual, demonstrable harm that is happening to children, nor are we talking about a single unified protocol where everyone agrees upon what is bad for children of a given age. Look at my country for example, we place a higher emphasis upon protecting children from sexual content than from violence, while in someplace like Australia the reverse might be true. In my country cartoons and comic books are "for kids", while in Japan they are a universal media form.

I do agree that videogames need to be integrated sensibly into the mosaic of media, and the prejudice that they are "for kids" needs to be reexamined and abolished.

I stand for the rights of parents to make these choices (provided they are, in fact, truly informed choices, and not apathy disguised as assent) and my and everyone else's right to make these choices for themselves without interference from unjustified authority.

Indeed it is.

Funnily enough, Rockstar Leeds is in Leeds. I think that Mr McJock might be getting his sporran in a twist because the PSP's GTA Liberty City & Vice City "Stories" titles were developed by Rockstar Leeds.

Rockstar is DMA in the same way Starburst is Marathon.

The name is different, and so is the company. DMA was a source of many innovative and brilliant games including two of the biggest ever: Lemmings and GTA. It's creative powerhouse was Dave Jones.

Rockstar is a faceless corporation that releases GTA and Midnight Club sequels and Bully games.

Dave Jones has moved on. Now he's at Realtime Games, creators of APB and Crackdown, which I personally preferred it to GTA 3.

Or rather, Opal Fruits. ;) I loved my sweets as a kid, little fatty me.

But yeah, as well-designed and competently developed the GTA series is, it does appear that Rockstar have pretty much been pidgeon-holed into making these sorts of more mature, adult-oriented (or grindhouse-themed) computer games. Especially as Lemmings consumed my entire life as a child (next to Sonic, obviously), it's a shame to see DMA departed from us all.

Dave Jones is awesome, and while I'm looking forward to APB, I'm quite worried that even he himself appears to have focused a little too much on trying to 'out-GTA' himself. I hope that I get to see some real creative genius from his new studio soon.

I think you rather missed my point.

Which was... it's not just a change of name (Opal Fruits to Starburst OR Marathon to Snickers), it's become a totally different thing.

To illustrate, I used the new name for a pack of chewy sweets, and the old name for a peanutty chocolate bar. If I'd have said Rockstar is DMA like Starbust is Opal Fruits, I would have been saying that it is essentially exactly the same thing with a new name. Sort of exactly not my point, except for sort of.

Rockstar is DMA with the peanuts taken out, and a lot of soft fruits added.

It was quite clever, really. if you think about it. But clearly a bit too subtle ;-)

Yeah but opal fruits were originally called Starbursts then called Opal Fruits then back to Star Bursts! Now how does that work??? And marathons were always snicker sin the US and EU so how does that effect sales of Wii in Asia? And the Fact Twix is called Radar in Germany well dot get me started on how that can affect the T2/R* thingy!
:-)

Ah, I get you. :-) Very clever yes, well played. I'd pretty much say that Opal Fruits =/= Starburst anyway, for some reason when they changed the name they started to be less satisfying... call it a loss of soul or something.


Wait, they were originally called Starburst in the UK before Opal Fruits? Man this is confusing. :-P