New Nintendo DS is Here

doctor dee wrote:
You don't have to buy them.

(still dont how to quote,im using safari on my mac does that make a diffrence)

well no you dont,but in this ipod generation we all want the newest and coolest thiings,i have summerised my view in an equation
DSlite cool factor+old DS ugly factor=demand for new DS.

haha,im such a geek...not really,im cool.im 19.i hav a girlfriend and i have short hair.

i played D&D through adolesnce... own a metric ton of video games.... my room and desk are littered with japanese toys and figures(and plenty of good old american ones too)... my cat has a japanese name.... i am a webdeveloper/game publishing manager/game journalist and have a girl friend and short hair (which i regret cutting every day... used to be so long)and i am 25.

i am fast on my way to "coolest nerd evar!"

all i need is a fully automated networked house (like bill gates)and a fancy ass car with crazy car pc... my kia with pda/usbHD is a pretty sad but effective. :)
_______

You didn't need to say you are cool, you already told us you have a Mac.

I'm using Safari too, you can quote by selecting the text you wanna quote and hitting the "!" button that should appear at the left side of the text entry box.

I'm using Safari too, you can quote by selecting the text you wanna quote and hitting the "!" button that should appear at the left side of the text entry box.

maybe that will work.have to post to see.Yo,dee this might sound really stupid but how do u "select" text


EDIT**************
didnt work,so pissed off.

Nintendo obviously had loads of "game and watch" feedback from E3, knew they would have to re-design the DS and released it anyway.

This is cynical since they knew they would sell boat loads to the Nintendo fans no matter what it looked like, they could then easily double their sales by releasing a re-designed model. The Nintendo "gotta collect em all" hardcore will buy both, anybody who buys the first model who isn't hardcore is just an added bonus.

Then when the redesign is released, the iPod "gotta get the coolest" people will jump on the band wagon. They have heard about the games from the hardcore, want one, but hate the look of the original model. Now a new model clad in it's Apple-white goodness comes out, sales ensue to the fashion concious.

And nobody will criticise them because "DS r0XX0rs", "Nintendo is listening to us" and best of all "You don't have to buy both".

A cynical marketing plan from start to finish (allegedly) and no criticism and absolute boat loads of sales. The fact that the DS is an excellent platform is incidental to the whole this, that just upped the non-hardcore sales of the butt-ugly first model.

All that said, I'm prolly gonna get one now, so mark me up in the shallow end of the pool.

Still not with you. It's no more cynical than EVERY other company. Snowboard manufacturers change their graphics (and very little else) every year, Wakeboard companies do the same. Car manufacturers tweak models, Electronic manufacturers offer spurious upgrades to keep the models changing, often more than once a year. Software companies add specious 'upgrades' and bloaty null-ware to their products every year to force an upgrade. It is no MORE cynical than any of those companies.

If you have a product which people will buy (12,0000,000 of them!!!), why waste the time and spend the money re-designing it? To do so would be against all logic.

If you then decide that you can attract a different market sector by redesigning, and you do so in a way that IN NO WAY makes the 12 million units you've already shifted obsolete or redundent, how can that be cynical?

I've nver been a Nintendo fan, never owned anything but the GameCube. By "growing up:" the DS, they've made a convert.

They don't deserve your criticism, and since you are going to buy a DS-Light, it rings pretty hollow.

Why Sony wouldn't get away with a re-design? Simple, because they have Ken Kuturagi and he's crazy enough to call the PSP "the most beautiful thing ever created" and the legions of non-Sony fan boys would jump on it like crazy.

And i don't think the DS redesign was part of some masterplan since the orginal DS is fully packed, it does not have any spare place, but at some stage Nintendo knew that making a smaller formfactor was possible since the hardware used isn't that high-tech and they have close ties with the companies involved. Maybe close at launch in 2004 Nintendo got the word from its R&D it was capable to make a smaller one in quite short-term but they couldn't delay the whole launch just for that. So they waited a year and are now warming up their calculators to count in the profit...Xbox360, your first-day launch record is going down!!

So we've moved from "you don't have to buy it" to the equaly facile "everybody else is doing it"? You usually have better arguments than that. :-)

The only games hardware manufacturer that constantly releases "limited edition" and re-designed versions of their consoles is Nintendo. They do it very frequently and they sell loads each time, to many of the same people who bought the original versions.

If they are having a bad quarter, no matter, bung out a different colour SP, or just put some stickers on it. Maybe bundle it with a slightly appropriate game and hey presto! Back in the black!

Yes other industries do it, but Nintendo is the only one doing it in the games sector yet Microsoft and Sony are the ones accused of being money grabbing bastards.

My original point was "What's up with that?" - something nobody has made an attempt to answer.


There was no indication that the DS would sell in such huge numbers at any time between E3 2004 and the DS launch. If there had been any idea, it would have made the decision not to re-design as much as they have now a more cynical one.

The only major point against the DS in the reports from E3 was that it looked weird. Yet Nintendo didn't do anything to rectify that. Yes, there was a slight re-design in that time, but the essential look of the console stayed the same.

Now only 15 months later, just after the selling frenzy that is Christmas no less, we get a re-design that is squarely aimed at the people who thought the original was an ugly product. The fact that Nintendo knows that the Ninty faithful will buy essentially the same product again is what makes the move cynical.

The fact that there was a shortage of the original DS in Japan around Christmas makes it apparent that Nintendo has already stopped production of the original and started producing the Lite. It looks like they were caught out by the huge sales of the DS over that period and had planned for the supply to dry up around the time the Lite is released. Exactly what Microsoft was accused of early last year when stocks of the Original XBox ran out.


Because in the six months between E3 and launch they could easily have taken on board the feedback, made and produced a design that fit around the existing innards and looked as good as the Lite does, maybe slightly bigger.

A re-design then would have attracted what is only now a different audience due to the design of the first iteration. They didn't re-design then because they knew they didn't have to. Release a re-design later and not only will the ugly model haters buy the new one, the old faithful will too.


I don't see how Nintendo doesn't deserve to be criticised when, as I see it, they have shamelessly exploited their hardcore fans over and over again.

I'm not criticising the product, I'm criticising what I see as the cynical approach to selling it, that his been used before with the umpteen versions, colours and re-designs of the GBA we have seen since its launch. Each one selling loads to the Ninty fan base, each time Nintendo knew they could sell the same product again and again to the same people. Are you telling me that the GBA-SP Tribal Edition wasn't a cynical exercise in exploiting the "gotta collect em all" attitude of Nintendo's core followers?

And anyway, who says I can't criticise the company that makes a product I may be buying? Can I criticise if I'm not going to buy it? Can I criticise after I've bought it? What are the rules?

That turned into a bit of a rant and, to tell the truth, I hadn't thought everyhting above through earlier. I'm starting to talk myself out of getting a DS.

Whatever your thoughts on the way Nintendo is doing business, don't deprive yourself of the DS. I'm annoyed, having gotten my system a month ago, but it's a system I've enjoyed immensely (and I see myself continuing to enjoy it for a long time to come). I certainly wouldn't like to be without it now.

Plus, think of how much the price of the original will go down once this hits shelves...

Tyrion, at the end of the day, the ball and the money are in your court as to whether you make that DS purchase. It's true as Doc says that all companies do this not just Nintendo, though I agree Nintendo do it the most in the games industry because they have been the most successful company in it.

Please don't forget that it was they that breathe life back into the industry when the yanks over at Atari bailed (broken record I know). For this respect I think they have kind of earned the right to release updates so long as they don't take the piss like Apple (who got to the download market first, but didn't make the first HDmp3 player). And if they didn't sell, I'm sure they'd stop chucking money at pushing them.

Speaking of Apple how many of you good people own an iPod? Apple to are guilty of special editionitis with iPod, when there are plenty of other PMPs people could choose. Or how many of you own a car, that has been redesigned in some way, but still get you from a to b just the same? Don't deprive yourselves of a DS or a motor because of such trivial stuff.

Making deliberate shortages is something that is done I feel by the likes of Sony and possibly MS often. This is different to selling out in your home nation entirely. In all the years I've been playing games I can't remember the last tme this happened in japan (if ever) than with DS. With Nintendo already in the lead against PSP and PSP the only real competition, would Nintendo really make a deliberate shortage of DS in japan? I seriously doubt it.

Get a DS and enjoy some good games. Up to you, mind.

Ah, the thirst for social acceptance is a quest. I guess the DS Lite is every cool monkeys dream next to the PSP.

I can dress well like I do and still be labeled a nerd for playing my DS anywhere but I care little, for the people will always talk if that is what makes them happy and feel part of the cool crowd.

I'm single, like to party hard with an eye for the ladies. No girlfriend, because I love to spread the love to more than one female.

This truly is the age of the cool nerd, I feel at home already. LOL.

I'm sure I'll still be playing my DS public, Lite or not. A combination of Riviera on GBA and Ouendan on DS are that good IMO.

Considering the DS Lite is out in March, does this mean we'll see a Metroid Hunters & Tetris DS Lite packs in japan?

No there is an idea, Tetris and the DS under a Nintendo banner, putting nails in Sony's coffin. Somebody call the priest, not the doctor.

Don't forget folks the first version has a bonus, it's larger for larger adult hands. Different hands, different DS for you.

Tyrion, I believe you're blowing the whole thing out of proportion. It's a change in form not functionality. It works the same way as the previous version. It's not like you buy one and then later are told that the new one has a built-in hard drive which is being used by succeeding games that would make the previous system partially obsolete. Personally, it's no different than having a new color come out. Why anyone would make such a big deal about it and saying that X company screwed them because of such trivial reasons is beyond me. Apparently there's usually a surge of sales when you models come out (i.e. PS2 slim, etc.) so I suppose it must hit you more if you're one of the people who cause such sales rise (never really get why some people change cellphones yearly myself). Still, you shouldn't take it too hard. At least it's not like getting a GBA and the SP comes out (glad it took me this long to get a GBA msyelf 'cause I got my hands on a Famicom themed Micro).

But this time I don't need better arguments, since yours are so poor. Both of the ones you allude to above stand.

If you think it's cynical, don't buy one. But don't ask for a go on mine when I get it.

The level of it cynicality has to be taken in perspective. Once you do, it is not noteworthy.

You say that no-one annticipated the DS to sell well. I suspect, that had Nintendo not expected it to sell well, they would have redesigned it before launch. They didn't - therefore the only logical conclusion is that they expected it to sell.

Your argument seems predicated on the idea that someone is being exploited, and someone (Nintendo, in this case) is doing the exploiting. This is patronising to the Nintendo faithful, who you seem to be saying are having their arm twisted into buying this. They are not.

If they choose to buy this, or anny Nintendoo variation, how does this make them any more exploited than people who collect Barbies (Mattel keeps launching diifferent ones with different clothes), or Stamps, or Beermats, or Vans Shoes? Collectors are, to my mind, pathetic but they aren't exploited. I believe that you should buy something, and use it till every last iota of pleasure has been extracted from it. But for some people the pleasure is buying it, the pleasure is iwning it. Who are you to deny them that pleasure?

You say your original point was the achingly cool "What's up with that?" And that no-one has attempted to address it. I'm afraid the original point comes across mouch more as the rather less cool, "I'm stamping my feet". And since that's not a question, there really is no answer to it.

But the idea that Nintendo should adopt a Henry Ford "Any colour as long as it's black" approach confounds me. For two long electronics have been available in 'the colour they come in', and that's that. Admittedly standard hi-fi components have often given us the choice of black or silver. Spoilt for choice! In the past, there were sound reaons in terms of manufacturing and distribution limitations. But now these are largely removed. I think the question should not be the rather lame why is Nintendo exploiting us, but instead, why are other companies not giving us this much choice?

I don't want my phone/iPod/Snowboard/Vans shoes to look like yours. By providing options the companies are enabling us to express our individuality, and our aesthetic preferences. How is that exploitation?

But this speaks only to the colour variations Nintendo offers, and Sony is beginning to.

In a market where first mover advantage can have considerable commercial implications, and when Nintendo was in a race to launch DS before Sony launched PSP, I think it is phenomenally unrealistic to suggest that they should have delayed release for a re-design. I think it's equally idealistic to suggest that, having lauched something so ugly, they should keep it that way to avoid hurtng your feelings.

But, and this is a MUCH larger point here. If you do not agree with the activities of a company, you need to vote with your wallet. I do not buy Nestle or Coca-Cola products. I do not shop at Wal-Mart. I buy locally-produced where possible, small company over corporates. I urge everyone else to do the same. Not the same as me, that would be stupid - but do what their conscience tells them to do.

In this case, I suggest you, Tyrion, not buy a DS Lite.

This has blown out of all proportion now.

My original, "achingly cool", point was; Why do we accept this from Nintendo when we wouldn't accept it from Sony or Microsoft? A simple question with some points to back up the reasons for asking. No "foot stamping" involved.

If Nintendo are offering us a choice, why don't they make it a choice?

Why stop production of the first iteration when there may be people who are just waiting for the price to come down before buying?

Why make coloured versions limited editions, meaning the rabid collectors will snap them up instead of "normal folk" who prefer the colour or design?

Why not launch with multiple coloured versions like they did with the GameCube?

Why launch the new version just after a major selling period, wringing every last sale from the original hardware before the launch fever of the new?

By releasing the DS-Lite, Nintendo keep the price of the hardware high, at a point in the life cycle where a price drop could be expected. They have reached a point where production costs will be falling, R&D should be covered and it's usual to drop the price to bring in less well off customers. They haven't done this, they've launched a product aimed at more well off customers, at a higher price and stopped production of the older model, relegating the poorer gamer to the second hand market which they are also trying to kill off.


Thank you Hobson. Now if I buy one, I'm going against my principles and if I don't then I'm denying myself some fun on a flimsy and "poor" argument.

You may as well have finished with a school yard "I'm not going to prolong this childish discussion any further". You had made your point, you didn't need to end on that type of note.