Epic: Nintendo's Wii Like a Virus
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Topic started: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:25
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Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:54
Thinking forward is cool and I agree with Epic on that front, Nintendo didn't design the Wii with that forward thinking enough in mind. (No HD, especially in japan, which has had it forever, Wi-fi yes, but 512mb and no hard drive...WTF!!
However, a good developer that isn't spoiled, would seek to work to the strengths of the Wii, and at least try to put a game out on it, to reach that audience it has. Even if the hardcore buy it and it didn't do as great as expected, they'd still appreciate a serious game on Wii.
Sometimes I feel that while many rag on Wii, it is capable of more than they give it credit, and they dumb it down by abstaining from pushing out games for it. Funny thing here is, these same developers had no problem developing for PS2 back in the day, which is less powerful tech wise, but is still selling well now. A case of apples and pears, when both are still sweet, stomach filling fruit.
If you want to take part in Wii's success, get those thinking caps on and produce something good. We know Epic are capable, but perhaps too much freedom tweaking Unreal engine has stunted their talent (or so they like to pretend). Its where the money is, but they obviously don't want to try or earn that money.
Like they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Doesn't hurt to try though, Epic.
However, a good developer that isn't spoiled, would seek to work to the strengths of the Wii, and at least try to put a game out on it, to reach that audience it has. Even if the hardcore buy it and it didn't do as great as expected, they'd still appreciate a serious game on Wii.
Sometimes I feel that while many rag on Wii, it is capable of more than they give it credit, and they dumb it down by abstaining from pushing out games for it. Funny thing here is, these same developers had no problem developing for PS2 back in the day, which is less powerful tech wise, but is still selling well now. A case of apples and pears, when both are still sweet, stomach filling fruit.
If you want to take part in Wii's success, get those thinking caps on and produce something good. We know Epic are capable, but perhaps too much freedom tweaking Unreal engine has stunted their talent (or so they like to pretend). Its where the money is, but they obviously don't want to try or earn that money.
Like they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Doesn't hurt to try though, Epic.
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10
They do know and their "way forward" thinking is the one that will kill the gaming industry eventually...if it does get killed.
Also, what are you with shaders if you can't make a cool looking cell-shaded game with it...come on you lazy prick asses.
Also, what are you with shaders if you can't make a cool looking cell-shaded game with it...come on you lazy prick asses.
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:41
I'm sure we all for forward thinking, and while even a big Nintendo gamer like myself, can see where Wii is flawed, I can also clearly see where developers are lame ass, full of bad excuses etc on the Wii front.
I'm sure many of them count the days, waiting for Wii to die, so they can move onto their comfortable shell of normal 360/PS3 game development. Problem is, this isn't gonna happen, now Nintendo have the lead. (Stuff like Wii Fit will ensure they keep it too.....Blu Ray laced PS3 or not). And you know what? The longer the majority of developers hold out on Wii, the more stupid they will look, as potential money they could be earning goes to others. Kudos to those that invest in Wii, and reap the rewards.
So, continue to put your loyalty to your engines, above game creation and feeding gamers, Epic. You know you've got talent, even if it means you using a previous Unreal engine, you could do something on Wii, but you choose not to. That's poor and I pity such negativity. When there's still a market for PS2 graphics and gameplay, you shouldn't be closing your mind to such possibilities, because it suits you.
And this is exactly why I have a lot more respect, for smaller fish like Renegade Kid that try, against the odds and bs excuses (even though they are currently doing DS games like Moon). Frankly, they are making the likes of Epic look stupid (graphics aren't everything, while still being a large part).
Now, Imagine what Renegade could do if they upgraded to Wii. I'd love to see that happen and I hope they get a license. At least IMO, they'd be more worthy of a Wii development license.
I'm sure many of them count the days, waiting for Wii to die, so they can move onto their comfortable shell of normal 360/PS3 game development. Problem is, this isn't gonna happen, now Nintendo have the lead. (Stuff like Wii Fit will ensure they keep it too.....Blu Ray laced PS3 or not). And you know what? The longer the majority of developers hold out on Wii, the more stupid they will look, as potential money they could be earning goes to others. Kudos to those that invest in Wii, and reap the rewards.
So, continue to put your loyalty to your engines, above game creation and feeding gamers, Epic. You know you've got talent, even if it means you using a previous Unreal engine, you could do something on Wii, but you choose not to. That's poor and I pity such negativity. When there's still a market for PS2 graphics and gameplay, you shouldn't be closing your mind to such possibilities, because it suits you.
And this is exactly why I have a lot more respect, for smaller fish like Renegade Kid that try, against the odds and bs excuses (even though they are currently doing DS games like Moon). Frankly, they are making the likes of Epic look stupid (graphics aren't everything, while still being a large part).
Now, Imagine what Renegade could do if they upgraded to Wii. I'd love to see that happen and I hope they get a license. At least IMO, they'd be more worthy of a Wii development license.
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:02
I agree, I've been working on a Wii accesssory for a game, the game is a multiplatform release and at first the Wii release was considered of low priority. As time went on and the developers used the accessory more and more they realised the great potential of the Wiis new control system. Unfortunately, the graphic designers put all there effort and talent into PS3 and 360, whilst giving the Wii version the standard PS2 port.
I asked the head of development if the Wii versions graphics could be improved and he said 'of course, we could of created graphics upto near 360 standard'
Now after retailers and buyers have seen and played the wii version its considered to be the lead format!
I asked the head of development if the Wii versions graphics could be improved and he said 'of course, we could of created graphics upto near 360 standard'
Now after retailers and buyers have seen and played the wii version its considered to be the lead format!
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:46
Thanks for confirming my thoughts, Captain. It's a shame many don't see it.
Its heartbreaking in a way too. Take the new upcoming Ghostbusters game for example. The 360 and PS3 get a realistic film game, but the Wii gets a dumbed down into a game based on the animated tv series. While they aren't saying it, the writing is on the wall and clear to me, another case of not being prepared to push Wii graphics and break the lame status quo.
I wonder if developers will still be making these kinds of terrible excuses, when the Wii has been out for three years? Its not acceptable, when Nintendo have made Wii cheaper to develop for just for those same developers forever worried about cost, and they produce lame ass stuff, not bothering to try, because 360 and PS3 are easier on the eye.
Wii isn't rocket science, being similar to GC, a console that was out for 4-5 years. You can never tell me, that developers can't produce a game that looks as good as or better than Capcom's RE4 (possibly the GCs highest graphical points) on Wii and make it work. Hell, Capcom even did it themselves with RE4 Wii edition, so why is it so hard for them?
Truth is, it isn't hard at all, its just the tech heads developers are spoiled to a degree, that they must always be developing games on the latest hot steel forefront of tech, (here's looking at you, Epic) and to hell with everyone else. Because they are the tech guys, they can easily say 'game X won't work on Wii' to suits in charge, and suits will scrap it to save cash. You can't think like that.
Its my opinion, that its this sort of mentality that keeps many games from Wii (perhaps in a hidden agenda to try and starve it to death, so developers can be where they wanted to be, on PS3/360), that it could technically handle, but its not given a chance, apart from mostly in the japanese territories. Just as well that while many don't agree, that Nintendo have Wii Fit etc to back them up, as things could be quite different without them.
Nintendo isn't the virus, the real virus is industry apathy to Wii and DS. The cure is simply good and well thought out games.
Its heartbreaking in a way too. Take the new upcoming Ghostbusters game for example. The 360 and PS3 get a realistic film game, but the Wii gets a dumbed down into a game based on the animated tv series. While they aren't saying it, the writing is on the wall and clear to me, another case of not being prepared to push Wii graphics and break the lame status quo.
I wonder if developers will still be making these kinds of terrible excuses, when the Wii has been out for three years? Its not acceptable, when Nintendo have made Wii cheaper to develop for just for those same developers forever worried about cost, and they produce lame ass stuff, not bothering to try, because 360 and PS3 are easier on the eye.
Wii isn't rocket science, being similar to GC, a console that was out for 4-5 years. You can never tell me, that developers can't produce a game that looks as good as or better than Capcom's RE4 (possibly the GCs highest graphical points) on Wii and make it work. Hell, Capcom even did it themselves with RE4 Wii edition, so why is it so hard for them?
Truth is, it isn't hard at all, its just the tech heads developers are spoiled to a degree, that they must always be developing games on the latest hot steel forefront of tech, (here's looking at you, Epic) and to hell with everyone else. Because they are the tech guys, they can easily say 'game X won't work on Wii' to suits in charge, and suits will scrap it to save cash. You can't think like that.
Its my opinion, that its this sort of mentality that keeps many games from Wii (perhaps in a hidden agenda to try and starve it to death, so developers can be where they wanted to be, on PS3/360), that it could technically handle, but its not given a chance, apart from mostly in the japanese territories. Just as well that while many don't agree, that Nintendo have Wii Fit etc to back them up, as things could be quite different without them.
Nintendo isn't the virus, the real virus is industry apathy to Wii and DS. The cure is simply good and well thought out games.
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:22
Exactly. It's not an inherent problem with the Wii, it the developers/publishers. They think they can get away with rubbish on the Wii, and all it does is lower credibility. Then they think their "huge next-gen genre-pushing" game will be the next best thing, when it turns out it's a piece of s***.
They should do the smart thing, and get good at the basics before attempting something advanced and failing. Then they blame it on the consoles that their games are sub-par.
What I would say is, if the consoles aren't good enough for you, and you're apathetic about the industry, maybe it's time to get a different job.
It's not the hardware that has the effect, it's the software - it's what you do with the hardware. Just because someone can't be arsed to make a decent game doesn't make the hardware a virus.
The best games are ones that challenged peoples' preconceptions and succeed. This is what people should be buying, and this is what people should be making.
The problem is, if sequels and crap games were banned, there'd only be a couple of games left.
They should do the smart thing, and get good at the basics before attempting something advanced and failing. Then they blame it on the consoles that their games are sub-par.
What I would say is, if the consoles aren't good enough for you, and you're apathetic about the industry, maybe it's time to get a different job.
It's not the hardware that has the effect, it's the software - it's what you do with the hardware. Just because someone can't be arsed to make a decent game doesn't make the hardware a virus.
The best games are ones that challenged peoples' preconceptions and succeed. This is what people should be buying, and this is what people should be making.
The problem is, if sequels and crap games were banned, there'd only be a couple of games left.
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:53
realvictory wrote:
The problem is, if sequels and crap games were banned, there'd only be a couple of games left.
would there be even a couple, because one Halo fanboy has his antifanboy, as does Final fantasy, MGS, Mario and even GTA. its a matter of taste and although he isnt impressed with the software neither am i, but we are talking 3rd party here and pretty much everything ninty has made i own and enjoy, for him to state he doesnt have one Wii game worth owning, must be a lie on his part, that is unless he doesnt like console games? the software from nintendo alone on the Wii has already out done the lifetime of gamecube and N64 software combined (well it will be as soon as we get pilot wings!)
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:10
Given what could be done with the old XBox, why can't we see games that look at least as good as things like Riddick (escape from butcher bay) and Doom on the Wii? High def and big scale are great but good use of creepy lighting can go a long way or just putting a bit of effort into what must be the best FPS control for any console would be nice.
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:33
Does the Wii have all the graphics capabilities as the Xbox? I know the numbers look similar, but numbers don't tell the whole story...also Riddick was a ways into the Xbox's lifecycle...
I dunno, I have to agree with old boy on this one...its still a gimmick...good place to look for the next fad-of-the-moment innovation fix some out there seem to crave, but a lousy place for 'core' gamers who aren't looking for a "Revolution".
Riddick is an excellent example. It wasn't anything but a damn good game that stood on its own merits and stood out not because it was different, but was different because it was so damn good.
I dunno, I have to agree with old boy on this one...its still a gimmick...good place to look for the next fad-of-the-moment innovation fix some out there seem to crave, but a lousy place for 'core' gamers who aren't looking for a "Revolution".
Riddick is an excellent example. It wasn't anything but a damn good game that stood on its own merits and stood out not because it was different, but was different because it was so damn good.
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:04
Feels like the point of the Wii is being missed a bit through this story and comments...
Is the DS a virus too? The Epic man comments would seem to apply here too wouldn't they yet the DS has proven to be highly innovative with a great catalogue of games from both 1st and 3rd party, it uses a different control method, has worse graphics than its competitor, less features etc etc etc
I don't disagree with the comments about games, I don't think the Wii is suitable as a lone console for proper gamers, but the level of games released in its lifetime thus far has been pretty good and if you ignore the PS2-like shovelware then you can find plenty of worthy purchases with plenty more to come.
I guess we need some hindsight to see if the Epic man is right or not... a re-visit in 12 months me thinks :-)
Is the DS a virus too? The Epic man comments would seem to apply here too wouldn't they yet the DS has proven to be highly innovative with a great catalogue of games from both 1st and 3rd party, it uses a different control method, has worse graphics than its competitor, less features etc etc etc
I don't disagree with the comments about games, I don't think the Wii is suitable as a lone console for proper gamers, but the level of games released in its lifetime thus far has been pretty good and if you ignore the PS2-like shovelware then you can find plenty of worthy purchases with plenty more to come.
I guess we need some hindsight to see if the Epic man is right or not... a re-visit in 12 months me thinks :-)
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:19
Horatio wrote:
Is the DS a virus too?
The DS isn't a virus because people continue to play it. I think what was meant by the virus comment is that interest in the Wii spreads quickly, but activity slows quickly too. You generally recover from a virus and are no longer affected by it, but while affected you pass it on.
I know if I had a Wii I'd only have bought maybe three or four games for it and one of those would have been Wii Play for the extra controller.
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:53
tyrion wrote:
Horatio wrote:
Is the DS a virus too?
The DS isn't a virus because people continue to play it. I think what was meant by the virus comment is that interest in the Wii spreads quickly, but activity slows quickly too. You generally recover from a virus and are no longer affected by it, but while affected you pass it on.
Aye, and like a virus, months after you've recovered a subtly different strain floors you.
See: Wii Fit, Wii Play and Sonic+Mario strains of Wii Sports
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:09
Well, got my Wii Fit yesterday and rushed home to play (work) on it and realised why Miyamoto was more enthusiastic showing that then Super Mario Galaxy. Nintendo under the stewardship of Iwata have really turned the videogame industry on its head, and I cant understand why the hardcore cant just enjoy what Nintendo has brung to the market over the past 2 years.
What I really enjoy is to get a couple of my 'bold space marine' hardcore gaming mates around who have no interest in wii - always taking the piss - and cracking out wii sports, zelda, re:uc, smg, links crossbow training, mp3, trauma center, endless ocean oh the list goes on.... and well half of them go out at the weekend and pick one up.
How any true gamer can possibly dismiss the wii as a fad is beyond me.
What I really enjoy is to get a couple of my 'bold space marine' hardcore gaming mates around who have no interest in wii - always taking the piss - and cracking out wii sports, zelda, re:uc, smg, links crossbow training, mp3, trauma center, endless ocean oh the list goes on.... and well half of them go out at the weekend and pick one up.
How any true gamer can possibly dismiss the wii as a fad is beyond me.
Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:07
Captain Chaos wrote:
What I really enjoy is to get a couple of my 'bold space marine' hardcore gaming mates around who have no interest in wii - always taking the piss - and cracking out wii sports, zelda, re:uc, smg, links crossbow training, mp3, trauma center, endless ocean oh the list goes on.... and well half of them go out at the weekend and pick one up.
Just like a virus as pointed out by tyrion and config above, you have just proved the point they are making. Do your mates still play the Wii lots or did they buy it and then get bored?
Most of the hardcore don't get on with the Wii cos it doesn't have games that interest them. And I'm one of them, I have nothing against the Wii. The games just don't interest me.
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