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Topic started: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:02
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Ditto
Joined 10 Jun 2004
1169 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:02
Miyamoto is growing up.

With ideas such as these, Nintendo has a bright future, even with tough competition from Sony and Microsoft.

I'm looking forward to seeing the hint in Animal Crossing, and I'm not even more intrigued by Revolution.

Keep these focuses Nintendo, keep working with Square Enix and keep growing up.
Autobot
Joined 28 Oct 2004
72 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:59
I like Miyamoto a lot but I think his style of thinking is rather dated.

Think about it, the reason game controls have become more compicated is because the games themselves have become more complicated. Back in the SNES era games didn't need analog contols or trigger buttons. But now because of the subtle movments 3D games can do we need them.

Why reinvent game controls all the time? Nintendo always trys to reinvent game controls. Sure is great to have controls but they never use them fully. They only use them for about 3 games then they stop. Remember the vitrual boy's contols? The Kirby tilt game? Power Glove? Track Mat? ROB? Super Scope? or the SNES Mouse?

Its nice for Miyamoto to say that games are getting too complicated. But the real thing is that Miyamoto makes too many simple games in a world were compexity rules.

I have always felt Super Mario 3 was his last Good Mario game. Then when Zelda:OOT came that was his last Good game period.
ohms
Joined 10 May 2003
528 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:27
Autobot wrote:

Think about it, the reason game controls have become more compicated is because the games themselves have become more complicated. Back in the SNES era games didn't need analog contols or trigger buttons. But now because of the subtle movments 3D games can do we need them.


Nintendo brough gaming with an analogue stick to the fore with the N64 and Mario64, and the controls on that were simplicity itself, because they were well implemented.


Autobot wrote:

Why reinvent game controls all the time? Nintendo always trys to reinvent game controls. Sure is great to have controls but they never use them fully. They only use them for about 3 games then they stop. Remember the vitrual boy's contols? The Kirby tilt game? Power Glove? Track Mat? ROB? Super Scope? or the SNES Mouse?


If you fail at something, it doesnt mean you shouldn't keep trying. Someone out there has to keep coming up with new ideas in this industry, don't be lookin to Microsoft to do it for you.
(The new WarioWare title is also using a tilt sensor.)
Personally, I think the DS is one of the biggest 'revolutions' to happen in gaming and will change the way we play, and even the way we 'think' about games, the way they are today. It's worth having gone through all those arguable failures, to have gotten here.


Autobot wrote:

Its nice for Miyamoto to say that games are getting too complicated. But the real thing is that Miyamoto makes too many simple games in a world were compexity rules.


Complexity rules ? I hate complex controls, game controls need to be simple, no matter how many buttons on the pad you use (unless you're playing Steel Battalion, or a flight sim on the PC).

Super Monkey Ball was one of the best games to come out in this generation, and a perfect example of simplicity in it's controls, look, no buttons. There's plenty of room for all kinds of control systems, and a complex control system doesn't always mean a better game, it can often detract from the game if it's poorly executed. Too many games seem like their control system was waay down their list of priorities, but it should be at the top, it's the way you interact with the game, it shouldnt be an afterthought. I think Ninty have the right idea, and I hope they succeed this time.

Autobot
Joined 28 Oct 2004
72 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:11
thats just How I felt. For one thing What is so revolutionary about a touch screen? The palm Pilot has one and there are games that use that system before the DS was made. And as for the Analog system, it was great for them to bring that into the gaming world. But the useful innovations from Nintendo are few and far between. I knew this would cause some kind of outcry in this somewhat predictable forum. I just wanted to express my views, not trying to cause a rage amongst Nintendo fans or the lot that feel that everything you say must have a competing view. I am sorry in advance for those that feel that my statement was not favorable to there views. Forums are for expressing opinions and I hope you respect my opinions. :)

fnkhan
Joined 20 Oct 2004
2 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:12
I hope the DS does for Tendo what iPod has done for Apple.



Big Mac

DoctorDee
Joined 3 Sep 1999
2130 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:01
Autobot wrote:
For one thing What is so revolutionary about a touch screen? The palm Pilot has one and there are games that use that system before the DS was made.


True. But very few things are 100% innovative. Most developments build on the achievements of others. Sure, PDAs are touch-screen, but in using this control method DS is a first for a dedicated games machine. And PDAs pretty much suck for games.

Nintendo have made more contribution than many to innovation in games hardware. More so than Sony, who seem basiucally to have done what Sega and Nintendo had already done, but marketted it better. And far more than Microsoft... who's main innovative contribution to gaming seems to be in the on-line arena.

Forums are for expressing opinions and I hope you respect my opinions. :)


While they are clearly and well expressed, I'm sure we do.
ozfunghi
Joined 18 Oct 2004
283 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:56
With the DS he THINKS it will be sooner than 3 to 4 years? Damn Nintendo, stop messing with our minds here. This means no online Animal crossing? Glad the guys at Xlink think they are close to tunneling the DS. And if he 'thinks it will be sooner' i wonder what the hell Demasked is about, they were aiming for q4 2004 but are delaying till q1 2005 i think.
Autobot
Joined 28 Oct 2004
72 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:53
There is no denying that Nintendo tries to push the envelope for innovation. I was just stating that some of there ventures never get very far.

Examples:
N64DD
Virtual Boy
E-Reader
Q
I-Que
Game and Watch
*There are a lot more

The things that did stay lasted a long time
examples:
Portable gaming
Analog control
Shoulder buttons
4 controller ports
Rumble pack

Sony has contributed a lot the world of consoles.
examples:

Analog Buttons
Controler handles
Dual Analog configuration
Clickable Analog

Their failures include:

PS pocket (memory card)
PSone development console
Linux for PS2
PS2 Hard Drive
more recently PSX

Microsoft brought in some innovations they include:

Built in Network card
Built in Hard drive
custom soundtracks
downloadable updates

Their Failures include:
The XBOX System (in Japan)
* They have not ventured very far in innovation so they have very few failures

OK after showing this dumb list, you may ask WTF is your point?

Did I say I had one? but I will give you one anyways. Nintendo is on a shaky ledge and one more "innovation" could land them with SEGA. Remember SEGA was inventing a ton of stuff before they fell off the map.

Miyamoto, has an old way of thinking (I have said this before). Microsoft is on the right track in the control area. They also agree that games have become overly complicated (mostly there fault). They want to include overly basic controls to all the fXBOX 2 games. Its not the default configuration its something you have to set in the options. Basicaly play a game using only 1 button. They even hinted that they might sell special controllers for the group who like to play games with simple controls. This gives all games a wider audience because people who get confused easily can just play with a few buttons and thats all. Miyamoto, should try that, instead of creating extremly awkward game controls, or find new ways to breath life in there soon to be falling company. Why not just make complicated games and have a setting that allows people to just pick up and play.

They could make Mario Kart for one thing, become almost sim feeling. Making each turn involving enurtia and pressure. but in the begining of the game if they clicked on Basic. They could used the "special" controller that allows them to just press gas and shoot the characters without the need to know physics.

ohms
Joined 10 May 2003
528 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:52
Autobot wrote:
thats just How I felt. For one thing What is so revolutionary about a touch screen? The palm Pilot has one and there are games that use that system before the DS was made. And as for the Analog system, it was great for them to bring that into the gaming world.


Like analogue sticks, touchscreens are of course not new, or nintendo's invention, but like DoctorDee said it's the first dedicated gaming system to have one... the possibilities are endless, well, maybe not, but there are a lot of them anyway.


Autobot wrote:

But the useful innovations from Nintendo are few and far between.


recently they have, I can't argue with that, which is why the DS has re-ignited my hopes for nintendo and their future in the gaming world.


Autobot wrote:

I knew this would cause some kind of outcry in this somewhat predictable forum. I just wanted to express my views, not trying to cause a rage amongst Nintendo fans or the lot that feel that everything you say must have a competing view. I am sorry in advance for those that feel that my statement was not favorable to there views. Forums are for expressing opinions and I hope you respect my opinions. :)


of course I do man, I just had to put in my fiddy pence worth, I mean you may even be right on this, but if nintendo fail, it will probably be down to their marketing.
ohms
Joined 10 May 2003
528 comments
Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:56

actually one of the biggest gaming innovations of recent years goes to sony's eyetoy, which at the time of it's arrival many people even said, 'this is the kind of thing we usually see from nintendo'.

Ditto
Joined 10 Jun 2004
1169 comments
Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:51
Microsoft and innovation...? Ha ha ha!
kid_77
Joined 29 Nov 2004
875 comments
Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:22
Well, M$ are the 1st console manufacturor to put a PC in a box and slap a green sticker on it??

Credit where credits due...
config
Joined 3 Sep 1999
2088 comments
Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:00
I'm sure Alienware prolly did the green sticker thing first ;)

LUPOS
Joined 30 Sep 2004
1422 comments
Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:30
kid_77 wrote:
Well, M$ are the 1st console manufacturor to put a PC in a box and slap a green sticker on it??

Credit where credits due...


XBOX FAN BOY TOO THE RESCUE!!!!!

i know i talked about this the other day somewhere but, the xbox is not a pcs in a box. it is a pc processor this is true and its graphics chip is from a pcs graphics chip maker, and there is indeeed ram in it but the way it is put together is not a standard pc build. It is a custom made arcitecture with a faster bus than a normal pc at the time. and for refference sake the graphics chip in the cube is made by ati, a pc manufacturere, and the cube has a powerpc processor, the same kind used in macs. The PS2 is a bit more from scratch but it certainly has its design flaws so i wouldnt really consider that an asset.

also sega gets credit for analog control (knights in to dreams?) and microsoft have done more to revolutionize consol gaming with live than any one else has in recent years. As for the eye toy it is far from a new idea,they have had motion trackign games in arcades and things for years. The relative sucess of the device compared to other strange ventures into perpheral land (u-force, powerglove) is that there are liek 70 million ps2s in the world, selling a million eye toys aint exactly sucess, im sure 1 70th of all nintendo owners had power pads, but when they only sold liek 20 million systems world wide back then 1/70 wasnt enough to make it a success. In my opinion sega has done the most in the way of worth while inovations and its a shame they arent making consoles any more. they had built in internet support on the dream cast before M$ did it, they did analog first, they used cd's first. They made the first worth while 3d game system. I realize that turbo graphix had a cd player before sega did but that system ultimatly sdidnt hold up so the sega cd was probably the most succesfull cd based console in the beging(3d0 and cd-i where far from succesfull). Who here hasn't played sewer shark? and sonic cd was FANTASTIC! and the infamos night stalkers.
as for sony inovating anything that is just laughable, sega had the modem built in to the dream cast and sony cant even follow suit. consoles have had 4 controller ports since the n64 and they stick with 2, so you can buy a 40$ mulit-tap like a sucker(or cause the week ass system coudl handle four player split screen well enough). The controller for the ps2 is almost exactly the same as the dual shock on the ps1 and the only reason they ever added the sticks was cause they realized 3d games kinda suck when played with a d-pad, way to think ahead guys. Wasnt untill after sega released there analog controler and the n64 came out that they wised up. If any body has any other instances of sony inovation please let me know. Other wise i think sega and nintendo are the raining kings of inovation in this industry.

Also i own a virtual boy and love it dearly, it was incredibly cool and had some very creative game play that hasnt been recreated to this day, its a damn shame it was so big and not portable and expensive, and blinding, and red... but nobody's perfect :)
_____________
Ditto
Joined 10 Jun 2004
1169 comments
Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:49
Technically the Xbox is a PC. As you stated it uses a PC processor, and therefore the supporting electronics are geared towards that. Quite how you think it can use a PC processor and a different bus is beyond me. They are almost one and the same (well I know that's not strictly true, but you know what I mean). If you used a faster bus with a standard PC processor then you would be overclocking it - not making it any less of a PC.

I agree with your other comments. Sony tend to be people that cause technology to mature in gaming rather than innovate.
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