Lionhead's Project Natal Video... Fakery?

"Science fiction writers, film-makers... they haven't imagined what we are able to do today". Has society really become so credulous that this kind of glib hype is now acceptable? What about the tennis player in Total Recall, Orac, the intelligent shopping assistant in Minority Report, the Thought Analyzer from Forbidden Planet, every holo-deck character in Start Trek?

It's good to be enthusiastic about your work, it is bad to disrespect the giants on whose shoulders you are standing.

http://gamer.blorge.com/2009/06/07/exposed-natel-milo-smoke-and-mirrors-by-peter-molyneux/

Interesting article

i don't care what or which started the stupid its a fake or it real one thing, i was dissapointed at the fact that invisible walls podcast proved that Milo was controlled and non the less a fake, the other software that the natal can dish out right now are small mini games that you would most likely see on the wii, and yes 360 fanboys the natal may not be coming out in the next 3 years or so due to the fact that most of the software is not complete for the natal and hence the name "project" im not entirely impressed at it anymore because most of it was simulated and pre-rendered, sony and Microsoft had some good line ups and i will be looking forward to playing them but the natal blunder was what killed me after e3. this is where i get my funny stuff ***n00b weblink removed***

@OptimusP your argument revolves around you knowing nothing, once again. This isnt about physics because physics dosnt dictate that the IR sensors built into the natal cant see the speed of motion. Thats infrared sensors, sense your obviously so dense. You know, the same tech in modern radar guns that can track how fast your going. Why couldnt the speed of your motion be translated into force? As I said before it can and once again you show that you dont know what your talking about. Me 2. You 0. Oh and saying Im a Microsoft plant for pointing out how much of an idiot you are only furthers my point. Thinking microsoft wastes resources to send people like me into forums to talk to dip s**ts like you is a childish excuse for you not making any sense. Do your homework next time tard.

Are we keeping scores now? Does someone have a issue with losing? And thus does no effort at all to comprehend what the other guy is saying, aka very simple physics.

Let me explain this in full.
Wiimote uses sensors (accerelometers) that can detect force (up to 3 g in the Wiimote case) so it can measure the accerelation. This is physics. The formula how the Wiimote does this is F/M=A, F= force, M= mass (which the Wiimote keeps constant at it's own weight probably) and A= accerelation. This works because the force someone applies on the Wiimote also creates a counter-force of equal value (one of Newton's laws), it is this counter-force the Wiimote actually senses (again, up to 3g). However, the making of the accerelometer, as far as i can grasp it, seems to use gravity in the proces. So it actually senses the difference between gravity and the other force working on it. It is then possible the Wiimote will not work in low to zero-gravity enviroments.

Camera's use coördinates, which is physics as well, but not Newtonian ones (more of an extension of) because you don't swing around the camera, the camera observes movement, is not the object in movement. Camera's know the speed and the accerelation of an object it tracks trough measuring the distance between two 3D coördinates and the time to travel that distance. In Simple math it looks like this: speed= distance/time, accerelation = speed/time. Bringing this back to Newton, the camera knows A, so to know F, it needs to know M (mass) because F=AM. The problem here is that camera's have no way of telling how much mass your arm is or your leg, or that of random person x using Natal 5 seconds later. While M is constant with the Wiimote, because M= weight of the Wiimote, M is an unpredictable and changing variable with camera's. Theoretical speaking, the PS3 wands can do both what the Wiimote and the Natal does because M is constant (the PS3 wand itself).

But, because camera's use speed to calculate accerelation, it can only calculate the minimum F being excerted on the object if M is constant. For example, you can swing a hammer at a nail pretty fast and you can swing a hammer at a nail at roughly the same speed but with more force in it (it's all in the wrist). So the PS3 wands can calculate the minimum F required to move the wands at perceived A, but they can't know the excess F because they have no way of feedback (unless they have accerelometers built in, does someone know if they do?). This is where the counter-force measuring of the Wiimote come in handy, it's the feedback to calculate the excess F.

I REST MY CASE MICROSPOFT AND SONY AND THERE BLIND FANS ALL LIVE ON PLANET MORON

I SAID ALL ALONG FAKKKKKKKKE LAGGY BS

CAMS 300 DEGREES PER SECOND WM+ 1600 DEGREES A SECOND

So you're saying Einstein's theory is a lie? E (energy, or force, if you like) = mass x speed of light squared

You can't have a hammer going at the same speed and have it give different forces. the wrist thing makes the hammer go faster and thus make it have a bigger impact... physics n00b

also @OptimusP
(originally my first reply but then I saw you're other post and somehow that got posted and this didn't.)

First of all: why does a console want to know what force is being used?
Second: the wii mote and the ps3 wand both don't know the mass of your arms or hands either. programmers can only know for a fact what the mass of the wand or mote is and if they *do* want to know the force, they'd have to calculate from either the standard mass of the wand/mote (which would only be correct if the wand/mote swung itself) or calculate in a standard mass behind the mote.

Because programmers can't know the force (and they don't need to) they use the speed. something that can be checked by accelerometers or a 2 point camera system. the first one needs you to hold something, the second doesn't.

So please: close your physics book and shut up about game technology, you don't know anything about it.

ontopic: I'm gonna wait and see what natal brings and if studios bring interesting games.

@Martin agreed, also games like halo 3 will be gone forever because first-person shooting can't be based on agility! that's crazy! plus aiming would be such a bitch, Natal would have to scan on two spots, which will both influence aiming.

The big tip for me, aside from Clair's obvious fake performance, is right before she hands Milo the fish. The game-camera already starts moving in on him before she initiates any action.

ar 3:53 when she have draw the fish you can see that she turn the paper around so she shows up the picture and you can see that see have not draw any thing on it

I just listened to the Windows Weekly podcast where Windows and Microsoft evangelist Paul Thurrott basically say the same as this article - it's all "ignore the man behind the curtain" scripted crapola

How comes reasonable people are happy to eat this Natal bullshit - and smile giddily while it oozes thru their teeth??

@dazl
your reading comprehension is pathetic. also your physics, light has little to do with this and tahts conversion of mass into energy( take the pistons in a car for example) and thats not what he meant. go back to your generic first person shooters and incorrect grammar.

While it is true that other controllers might measure the impact of mass on force.. measuring force in a game environment does not add much to the experience. Speed is quite enough.
If you are so bent on training punches in a video game, why not go punch a bag instead? It will even provide resistance! Here, a low tech, well tested device for you. Without resistance, throwing full force punches may damage your arm. There is absolutely no point in doing that.

What the punching bag cannot provide, are interesting situations to which you need to produce appropriate reactions. Like a low kick or an evasive maneuver. This is what motion sensing games could be used for.