PSP pricing emerges!
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Topic started: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:21
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Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:06
Sony may just pull this off, the Playstation name is their biggest asset now, and there are a lot of people who will buy, regardless of Nintendo having a 'better', and cheaper, and more innovative handheld.
Then again, they could fail.
2005 should definately be an interesting year in the hardware wars that's for sure. :)
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:25
Metal Slug wrote:
>Sony think thery can overturn the entire handheld
>market's trends of the last 15 years?
Yeah, just like they had no chance against Sega and Nintendo, who "dominated" the mid nineties console market.
*Reply by MS* In Fact if you know the history of that episode, it was a combined project with Nintendo, that Nintendo disastrously pulled out of, which gave Sony its position, while Nintendo chose to stick with what was essentially outdated cartridge based hardware (Which became the N64).
>Everyone who has released a competitor to the
>GameBoy (or soon to be DS) with an inflated
>pricepoint has doomed it from the start.
True. But no one released a competitor that was MILES better than GB, and could play movies, and music.
*MS* Umm, so you aren't old enough to remember just HOW MUCH better the Lynx and GameGear were than the original GB?
> Only the
>NeoGeo Pocket made a reasonably strong start
>against the GBC
It didn't. Indeed, in terms of market share, it did no better than the Sega Gamegear.
*MS* Actually, and considering the timescale before the cancellation of the advertising budget for the NGPC after the fatal takeover by Aruze the start was as I said 'reasonably strong'. The fact that you liken it to the GameGear (The most dangerous competitor to the GB in its 15 year history) sort of goes to prove my point doesn't it?
>What about Nokia's recent little failure?
Which sold more than SNK Neo Geo Pocket Colour in the UK.
*MS* The N-Gage has had not only a total revision, but is a dual purpose machine from a well known company (SNK were relatively unknown in Europe) with an established market share (albeit the phone market!) Not to mention that Nokia has not suffered what amounted to a 'hostile' take-over by a competitor within 6 months of the release of the machine.
Besides, if you were to look at sales of software per harware unit sold, for the Euro region (first 6 months after release), the NGPC would beat the N-gage hands down.
>A few will buy anything, some will buy
>everything, the sensible money will buy the
>Nintendo.
>*GAME OVER*
Ah, how reason and logic shrivel under the blazing glare of outrageous jingoism.
*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by fanboys.
>Sony think thery can overturn the entire handheld
>market's trends of the last 15 years?
Yeah, just like they had no chance against Sega and Nintendo, who "dominated" the mid nineties console market.
*Reply by MS* In Fact if you know the history of that episode, it was a combined project with Nintendo, that Nintendo disastrously pulled out of, which gave Sony its position, while Nintendo chose to stick with what was essentially outdated cartridge based hardware (Which became the N64).
>Everyone who has released a competitor to the
>GameBoy (or soon to be DS) with an inflated
>pricepoint has doomed it from the start.
True. But no one released a competitor that was MILES better than GB, and could play movies, and music.
*MS* Umm, so you aren't old enough to remember just HOW MUCH better the Lynx and GameGear were than the original GB?
> Only the
>NeoGeo Pocket made a reasonably strong start
>against the GBC
It didn't. Indeed, in terms of market share, it did no better than the Sega Gamegear.
*MS* Actually, and considering the timescale before the cancellation of the advertising budget for the NGPC after the fatal takeover by Aruze the start was as I said 'reasonably strong'. The fact that you liken it to the GameGear (The most dangerous competitor to the GB in its 15 year history) sort of goes to prove my point doesn't it?
>What about Nokia's recent little failure?
Which sold more than SNK Neo Geo Pocket Colour in the UK.
*MS* The N-Gage has had not only a total revision, but is a dual purpose machine from a well known company (SNK were relatively unknown in Europe) with an established market share (albeit the phone market!) Not to mention that Nokia has not suffered what amounted to a 'hostile' take-over by a competitor within 6 months of the release of the machine.
Besides, if you were to look at sales of software per harware unit sold, for the Euro region (first 6 months after release), the NGPC would beat the N-gage hands down.
>A few will buy anything, some will buy
>everything, the sensible money will buy the
>Nintendo.
>*GAME OVER*
Ah, how reason and logic shrivel under the blazing glare of outrageous jingoism.
*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by fanboys.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:03
Metal Slug wrote:
>Everyone who has released a competitor to
>the GameBoy (or soon to be DS) with an inflated
>pricepoint has doomed it from the start.
Think back to the early '90s, Commodore and Atari released consoles to compete with Nintendo & Sega, they largely failed.
You would have been in the majority if you said what you said above regarding Nintendo & Sega just before Sony launched the PlayStation.
They certainly failed, didn't they?
>A few will buy anything, some will buy everything,
>the sensible money will buy the Nintendo.
>*GAME OVER*
Again, go back to before the PSX and say that, you'd have the smug air of one who "knows" the market can't be overturned. Not now though.
The fact is, Sony have re-invented the games market once before by appealing to the non-hardcore gamer population. It's not impossible to imagine them doing the same for the portable gaming market.
>Everyone who has released a competitor to
>the GameBoy (or soon to be DS) with an inflated
>pricepoint has doomed it from the start.
Think back to the early '90s, Commodore and Atari released consoles to compete with Nintendo & Sega, they largely failed.
You would have been in the majority if you said what you said above regarding Nintendo & Sega just before Sony launched the PlayStation.
They certainly failed, didn't they?
>A few will buy anything, some will buy everything,
>the sensible money will buy the Nintendo.
>*GAME OVER*
Again, go back to before the PSX and say that, you'd have the smug air of one who "knows" the market can't be overturned. Not now though.
The fact is, Sony have re-invented the games market once before by appealing to the non-hardcore gamer population. It's not impossible to imagine them doing the same for the portable gaming market.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:16
Metal Slug wrote:
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if you know the
>history of that episode, it was a combined
>project with Nintendo, that Nintendo disastrously
>pulled out of, which gave Sony its position,
>while Nintendo chose to stick with what was
>essentially outdated cartridge based hardware
>(Which became the N64).
I think everybody here knows the basic facts of that incident. However, I fail to see how Sony designing a CD add-on for the SNES instantly gave them the insight to design, build and market a games console.
Nintendo did not give Sony market share, marketing monies, games developers goodwill, distibution channels or public midshare. They gave them one thing, an idea, Sony did the rest.
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by fanboys.
And you honestly think that "the sensible money will buy the Nintendo" doesn't sound like a fanboy chant?
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if you know the
>history of that episode, it was a combined
>project with Nintendo, that Nintendo disastrously
>pulled out of, which gave Sony its position,
>while Nintendo chose to stick with what was
>essentially outdated cartridge based hardware
>(Which became the N64).
I think everybody here knows the basic facts of that incident. However, I fail to see how Sony designing a CD add-on for the SNES instantly gave them the insight to design, build and market a games console.
Nintendo did not give Sony market share, marketing monies, games developers goodwill, distibution channels or public midshare. They gave them one thing, an idea, Sony did the rest.
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by fanboys.
And you honestly think that "the sensible money will buy the Nintendo" doesn't sound like a fanboy chant?
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:32
NiktheGreek wrote:
>Whilst it's true that the
>public usually has a certain degree of
>short-sightedness and bias over these issues,
>neither hardware producers nor we should forget
>one fundamental truth of gaming. Ultimately, we
>hold the power to make these products succeed or
>fail, and as such the games companies do have to
>answer to us, at least partially.
I see what you're saying, but I also see what almondVanHelsing is saying.
I think his point is more towards the fact that Sony will have done some research as to what the market they are aiming at will be prepared to pay.
Sony know the market they are aiming at, whereas most people on these boards seem to see the PSP only as a direct competitor to the DS. With movie and music playback, they are also lining it up against MP3 players and mobile DVD players.
I think this is a larger market than the DS is aiming at, however with PictoChat, Nintendo are obviously trying to get into the SMS/chat market as well. This may also bring non-gamers into the fold, as it were.
It's certainly going to be an interesting sutuation to watch.
>Whilst it's true that the
>public usually has a certain degree of
>short-sightedness and bias over these issues,
>neither hardware producers nor we should forget
>one fundamental truth of gaming. Ultimately, we
>hold the power to make these products succeed or
>fail, and as such the games companies do have to
>answer to us, at least partially.
I see what you're saying, but I also see what almondVanHelsing is saying.
I think his point is more towards the fact that Sony will have done some research as to what the market they are aiming at will be prepared to pay.
Sony know the market they are aiming at, whereas most people on these boards seem to see the PSP only as a direct competitor to the DS. With movie and music playback, they are also lining it up against MP3 players and mobile DVD players.
I think this is a larger market than the DS is aiming at, however with PictoChat, Nintendo are obviously trying to get into the SMS/chat market as well. This may also bring non-gamers into the fold, as it were.
It's certainly going to be an interesting sutuation to watch.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:07
tyrion wrote:
>Metal Slug wrote:
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if
>you know the
>history of that episode, it was a
>combined
>project with Nintendo, that Nintendo
>disastrously
>pulled out of, which gave Sony its
>position,
>while Nintendo chose to stick with
>what was
>essentially outdated cartridge based
>hardware
>(Which became the N64).
I think
>everybody here knows the basic facts of that
>incident. However, I fail to see how Sony
>designing a CD add-on for the SNES instantly gave
>them the insight to design, build and market a
>games console.
Nintendo did not give Sony
>market share, marketing monies, games developers
>goodwill, distibution channels or public
>midshare. They gave them one thing, an idea,
>Sony did the rest.
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts
>are ignored by fanboys.
And you honestly think
>that "the sensible money will buy the Nintendo"
>doesn't sound like a fanboy chant?
The story of the PSX is more complicated than any one factor for sure. But the crux of the story is the decision by Nintendo to shaft Sony on the 'Playstation' deal and Sony's decision to go it alone.
As for why the PSX was so dominant over not only the N64 but also the original CD based machines, and the Saturn, well it was the right machine at the right time! Easier to program for than the Saturn with games being released sooner, it hit the shelves well before the N64, not to mention the percieved 'cool' factor afforded it by the Wipeout/nightclub marketting strategy, and of course the fact that the public was becomming 'used' to the idea of CD based media and was more accepting of it than perhaps they had been in the dark days of the CD32 or 3DO.
Sony did everything right with the PSX, and then they seem to have managed to live off of the 'good will' created by that, a kind of 'playstation-bounce' to keep their market domination regardless of the fact that the PS2 is in almost every way an inferior machine to the Xbox or even in many ways to the GameCube.
Wether that 'good-will' will extend to the public abandoning a 15 year relationship with Nintendo Handhelds to pay twice as much for a Sony machine with a battery pack that straps to your damn arm!
Well thats another story isn't it?
As to me being a Nintendo Fanboy?
Would I be banging on about how much better the Lynx and Gamegear were than the Gameboy classic?
Would my screen name be a NeoGeo game?
Ask me how I feel about the way Nintendo treats the Euro region and you'll see how 'loyal' I am to them.
Hell, even my sig quote is from a Playstation game!
I'm just stating the facts as I see them.
I think Sony have played on the PSX name enough, and its not going to be enough to make people buy the PSP over the DS at half the price (certainly substantially less) with GBA backwards compatibility!
And anyone who thinks video playback will sell it!
HA! Thats why we're all talking about games machines not the latest offerings from Creative or the like.
Even the humble GBA has the ability (via a £20 add-on) to play video, but that's hardly been setting the marketplace on fire!
Why? because its just a gimmick, not the main event.
Just like camera phones!
Less than 3% of owners send 1 or more picture a day. GIMMICK!
By the time the PSP hits the shelves (especially here in the UK) there will be a bag load of similar handheld products that will play various types of media with various other features, some of which the PSP will have, others it won't. Its not going to be the only horse in town for watching movies on the go, and as a games machine, it'll be bulky, expensive, and if the PS1/2 is anything to go by of debatable build quality, with a separate battery for christs sake!
IMHO ;) Ninty have actually gotten it right this time!
Their machine is going to be s**t-hot at what it should be trying to do...... PLAY GAMES!
And besides, is 'near ps2' graphics going to look that much better than 'N64+' on a weeny little screen?
If you want a handheld that does everything but wake you up with a coffee and a BJ, then look at the other machines coming out!
The Tapwave Zodiac 2, or the Tiger Telematics Gizmondo at least have internal batteries ;)
>Metal Slug wrote:
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if
>you know the
>history of that episode, it was a
>combined
>project with Nintendo, that Nintendo
>disastrously
>pulled out of, which gave Sony its
>position,
>while Nintendo chose to stick with
>what was
>essentially outdated cartridge based
>hardware
>(Which became the N64).
I think
>everybody here knows the basic facts of that
>incident. However, I fail to see how Sony
>designing a CD add-on for the SNES instantly gave
>them the insight to design, build and market a
>games console.
Nintendo did not give Sony
>market share, marketing monies, games developers
>goodwill, distibution channels or public
>midshare. They gave them one thing, an idea,
>Sony did the rest.
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts
>are ignored by fanboys.
And you honestly think
>that "the sensible money will buy the Nintendo"
>doesn't sound like a fanboy chant?
The story of the PSX is more complicated than any one factor for sure. But the crux of the story is the decision by Nintendo to shaft Sony on the 'Playstation' deal and Sony's decision to go it alone.
As for why the PSX was so dominant over not only the N64 but also the original CD based machines, and the Saturn, well it was the right machine at the right time! Easier to program for than the Saturn with games being released sooner, it hit the shelves well before the N64, not to mention the percieved 'cool' factor afforded it by the Wipeout/nightclub marketting strategy, and of course the fact that the public was becomming 'used' to the idea of CD based media and was more accepting of it than perhaps they had been in the dark days of the CD32 or 3DO.
Sony did everything right with the PSX, and then they seem to have managed to live off of the 'good will' created by that, a kind of 'playstation-bounce' to keep their market domination regardless of the fact that the PS2 is in almost every way an inferior machine to the Xbox or even in many ways to the GameCube.
Wether that 'good-will' will extend to the public abandoning a 15 year relationship with Nintendo Handhelds to pay twice as much for a Sony machine with a battery pack that straps to your damn arm!
Well thats another story isn't it?
As to me being a Nintendo Fanboy?
Would I be banging on about how much better the Lynx and Gamegear were than the Gameboy classic?
Would my screen name be a NeoGeo game?
Ask me how I feel about the way Nintendo treats the Euro region and you'll see how 'loyal' I am to them.
Hell, even my sig quote is from a Playstation game!
I'm just stating the facts as I see them.
I think Sony have played on the PSX name enough, and its not going to be enough to make people buy the PSP over the DS at half the price (certainly substantially less) with GBA backwards compatibility!
And anyone who thinks video playback will sell it!
HA! Thats why we're all talking about games machines not the latest offerings from Creative or the like.
Even the humble GBA has the ability (via a £20 add-on) to play video, but that's hardly been setting the marketplace on fire!
Why? because its just a gimmick, not the main event.
Just like camera phones!
Less than 3% of owners send 1 or more picture a day. GIMMICK!
By the time the PSP hits the shelves (especially here in the UK) there will be a bag load of similar handheld products that will play various types of media with various other features, some of which the PSP will have, others it won't. Its not going to be the only horse in town for watching movies on the go, and as a games machine, it'll be bulky, expensive, and if the PS1/2 is anything to go by of debatable build quality, with a separate battery for christs sake!
IMHO ;) Ninty have actually gotten it right this time!
Their machine is going to be s**t-hot at what it should be trying to do...... PLAY GAMES!
And besides, is 'near ps2' graphics going to look that much better than 'N64+' on a weeny little screen?
If you want a handheld that does everything but wake you up with a coffee and a BJ, then look at the other machines coming out!
The Tapwave Zodiac 2, or the Tiger Telematics Gizmondo at least have internal batteries ;)
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:16
£200 is too much for me. But I think Sony have it all wrong. Price is a key issue when comes to handhelds. Unlike consoles, Handhelds don't tend to be used as much and usually used when they are un able to play their console (ie out doors or Tv being taken up etc) so why is anyone going to pay £200 for something they aren't going to use on a regular basis.
But this again cannot compare with the pricing they did with Playstation 1 and PS2. Its totally different. Why? Because for one PSone had huge games like FFVII and Metal Gear Solid which at the time were groundbreaking. What does PSP have exclusive thats so ground breaking? A good looking movie which most will go to the cinema and see. GT4 which will be out for PS2 and Metal Gear Solid Acid looks interesting...but to me anyway isn't the hit PSP needs.
On top of that PS2 only sold well on hype alone (well at the beginning anyway) and the reputation PSone left it. When PSone was released it was A) A brand new company with an exciting new Console b) It used Cd's instead of cartriges which wasn't exactly new but it did it better than any other. And the fact that PSone didn't sell well at the beginning is more food for thought. Personally I don't think PSP will suceed. Theres alot of hype but alot of that is dying down in my opinion because there just isn't anything to point that hype at. GT4 looks great but most would rather play the PS2 version online. And Metal Gear Solid has only got a luke warm reseption because of the huge changes in it.
I could be wrong and it could sell brilliantly well. I mean if EA can constantly shift crap in huge quantities, why can Sony and their armies of Fanboys and Casual gamers its amassing? But if it out sells the Nintendo DS, I'll be hugely surprised. PSP needs more than hype and being a fasion icon to sell well I'm arfraid at that price point.
But this again cannot compare with the pricing they did with Playstation 1 and PS2. Its totally different. Why? Because for one PSone had huge games like FFVII and Metal Gear Solid which at the time were groundbreaking. What does PSP have exclusive thats so ground breaking? A good looking movie which most will go to the cinema and see. GT4 which will be out for PS2 and Metal Gear Solid Acid looks interesting...but to me anyway isn't the hit PSP needs.
On top of that PS2 only sold well on hype alone (well at the beginning anyway) and the reputation PSone left it. When PSone was released it was A) A brand new company with an exciting new Console b) It used Cd's instead of cartriges which wasn't exactly new but it did it better than any other. And the fact that PSone didn't sell well at the beginning is more food for thought. Personally I don't think PSP will suceed. Theres alot of hype but alot of that is dying down in my opinion because there just isn't anything to point that hype at. GT4 looks great but most would rather play the PS2 version online. And Metal Gear Solid has only got a luke warm reseption because of the huge changes in it.
I could be wrong and it could sell brilliantly well. I mean if EA can constantly shift crap in huge quantities, why can Sony and their armies of Fanboys and Casual gamers its amassing? But if it out sells the Nintendo DS, I'll be hugely surprised. PSP needs more than hype and being a fasion icon to sell well I'm arfraid at that price point.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:28
>The fact is, Sony have re-invented the games market once before by appealing to the non-hardcore gamer population. It's not impossible to imagine them doing the same for the portable gaming market.<
I hear what you are saying here, but the hand held market has already been re-invented by Nintendo, from previous GBs to the DS. GBASP vastly changed the way Nintendo advertise in magazines etc, and the same will continue. DS can playback content through something like an AM3 media player via the GBA port, this can be bought on import but that's up to you.
I think there's room for both DS and PSP since both offer something different. Sony's market clout is strong, but so is Nintendo's, now that they've had to eat much humble pie for mistakes. Apart from the prices only the public can truly decide the victor of this war. I'm buying both but my money is still on the DS.
Everyone falls from grace at some point, Sega, Nintendo etc, Sony's turn may come soon.
As they say "what goes around comes around."
I hear what you are saying here, but the hand held market has already been re-invented by Nintendo, from previous GBs to the DS. GBASP vastly changed the way Nintendo advertise in magazines etc, and the same will continue. DS can playback content through something like an AM3 media player via the GBA port, this can be bought on import but that's up to you.
I think there's room for both DS and PSP since both offer something different. Sony's market clout is strong, but so is Nintendo's, now that they've had to eat much humble pie for mistakes. Apart from the prices only the public can truly decide the victor of this war. I'm buying both but my money is still on the DS.
Everyone falls from grace at some point, Sega, Nintendo etc, Sony's turn may come soon.
As they say "what goes around comes around."
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:14
These posts have been an interestin read, keep em coming. As for me, i will be rooting for the DS.
Well done to Metal Slug and Kaxx, they really know thier stuff, and not forgeting Doctor Dee!!
Respect!!!
Well done to Metal Slug and Kaxx, they really know thier stuff, and not forgeting Doctor Dee!!
Respect!!!
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:59
tyrion wrote:
>I see what you're saying, but I
>also see what almondVanHelsing is saying.
>I
>think his point is more towards the fact that
>Sony will have done some research as to what the
>market they are aiming at will be prepared to
>pay.
Indeed, I think that other people are approaching Sony as if it doesn't have years of experience in the field of high-end consumer electronics. I just felt that the tone was perhaps a little "we don't matter, get used to it".
>Sony know the market they are aiming at,
>whereas most people on these boards seem to see
>the PSP only as a direct competitor to the DS.
>With movie and music playback, they are also
>lining it up against MP3 players and mobile DVD
>players.
Bingo. Sony's inclusion of a DVD player in the PS2 not only took it one rung above "normal" consoles, but took the system to an entirely new and profitable market. If the battery life holds up (which isn't the ultimate factor the system will live and die on, but certainly an important one), the smaller size of the unit as compared to portable DVD players may see it emerge in a very strong position.
>I think this is a larger market than
>the DS is aiming at, however with PictoChat,
>Nintendo are obviously trying to get into the
>SMS/chat market as well. This may also bring
>non-gamers into the fold, as it were.
And if anyone can do that, it's Sony. I'm sure we all remember them sticking Playstations in the Ministry of Sound and appealing to an older demographic than the typical gamer at that time. The PS2's function as a relatively cheap DVD player has already been mentioned. Since then, the EyeToy has dragged in another breed of player that generally didn't exist prior to Sony's market involvement. In essence, they've carried on the work Sega started with the Mega Drive by making games acceptable to new audiences.
>It's
>certainly going to be an interesting sutuation
>to watch.
Indeed, and of course I'll be sticking around here for reasonable discussion on the situation.
>I see what you're saying, but I
>also see what almondVanHelsing is saying.
>I
>think his point is more towards the fact that
>Sony will have done some research as to what the
>market they are aiming at will be prepared to
>pay.
Indeed, I think that other people are approaching Sony as if it doesn't have years of experience in the field of high-end consumer electronics. I just felt that the tone was perhaps a little "we don't matter, get used to it".
>Sony know the market they are aiming at,
>whereas most people on these boards seem to see
>the PSP only as a direct competitor to the DS.
>With movie and music playback, they are also
>lining it up against MP3 players and mobile DVD
>players.
Bingo. Sony's inclusion of a DVD player in the PS2 not only took it one rung above "normal" consoles, but took the system to an entirely new and profitable market. If the battery life holds up (which isn't the ultimate factor the system will live and die on, but certainly an important one), the smaller size of the unit as compared to portable DVD players may see it emerge in a very strong position.
>I think this is a larger market than
>the DS is aiming at, however with PictoChat,
>Nintendo are obviously trying to get into the
>SMS/chat market as well. This may also bring
>non-gamers into the fold, as it were.
And if anyone can do that, it's Sony. I'm sure we all remember them sticking Playstations in the Ministry of Sound and appealing to an older demographic than the typical gamer at that time. The PS2's function as a relatively cheap DVD player has already been mentioned. Since then, the EyeToy has dragged in another breed of player that generally didn't exist prior to Sony's market involvement. In essence, they've carried on the work Sega started with the Mega Drive by making games acceptable to new audiences.
>It's
>certainly going to be an interesting sutuation
>to watch.
Indeed, and of course I'll be sticking around here for reasonable discussion on the situation.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:01
Metal Slug wrote:
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if you know the history of
>that episode, it was a combined project with
>Nintendo,
I'm familiar with the history. However, that has nothing to do with how Sony turned being a technical consultant on another manufacturers product into Market domination. Your point was Sony cannot hope to reverse handheld gaming trends of the last 15 yrears. My point is that they did it with console trends... so why not?
>*MS* Umm, so you aren't old enough to remember
>just HOW MUCH better the Lynx and GameGear were
>than the original GB?
Oh, don't be a f**king cock. I was editor of Europe's best selling computer leisure magazine when those particular battles happened.
Read my point before you reply, neither Gamegear nor Lynx could play MP3s or movies.
>*MS* Actually, and considering the timescale
>before the cancellation of the advertising budget
>for the NGPC after the fatal takeover by Aruze
>the start was as I said 'reasonably strong'. The
>fact that you liken it to the GameGear (The most
>dangerous competitor to the GB in its 15 year
>history) sort of goes to prove my point doesn't
>it?
You said that ONLY the Neo Geo had been a competitor to the Game Boy, now you contradict youself completely and say that the Gamegear was a valid competitor too.
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by fanboys.
That WAS my point.
But I said it first, and much more eloquently. You just didn't seem to get it.
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if you know the history of
>that episode, it was a combined project with
>Nintendo,
I'm familiar with the history. However, that has nothing to do with how Sony turned being a technical consultant on another manufacturers product into Market domination. Your point was Sony cannot hope to reverse handheld gaming trends of the last 15 yrears. My point is that they did it with console trends... so why not?
>*MS* Umm, so you aren't old enough to remember
>just HOW MUCH better the Lynx and GameGear were
>than the original GB?
Oh, don't be a f**king cock. I was editor of Europe's best selling computer leisure magazine when those particular battles happened.
Read my point before you reply, neither Gamegear nor Lynx could play MP3s or movies.
>*MS* Actually, and considering the timescale
>before the cancellation of the advertising budget
>for the NGPC after the fatal takeover by Aruze
>the start was as I said 'reasonably strong'. The
>fact that you liken it to the GameGear (The most
>dangerous competitor to the GB in its 15 year
>history) sort of goes to prove my point doesn't
>it?
You said that ONLY the Neo Geo had been a competitor to the Game Boy, now you contradict youself completely and say that the Gamegear was a valid competitor too.
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by fanboys.
That WAS my point.
But I said it first, and much more eloquently. You just didn't seem to get it.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:09
NiktheGreek wrote:
>Indeed, I think that
>other people are approaching Sony as if it
>doesn't have years of experience in the field of
>high-end consumer electronics. I just felt that
>the tone was perhaps a little "we don't matter,
>get used to it".
That's not how I meant the post, I wrote it quick so I didn't check my English too much.
My point was what you say, Sony aren't clueless idiots just making something for the fun of it. They have to have researched the market and think they can make money selling the PSP.
I think we do matter when we complain to companies, just look how quickly "we" forced a price cut from Microsoft and how "we" got a better screen for GBA from Nintendo.
>Indeed, I think that
>other people are approaching Sony as if it
>doesn't have years of experience in the field of
>high-end consumer electronics. I just felt that
>the tone was perhaps a little "we don't matter,
>get used to it".
That's not how I meant the post, I wrote it quick so I didn't check my English too much.
My point was what you say, Sony aren't clueless idiots just making something for the fun of it. They have to have researched the market and think they can make money selling the PSP.
I think we do matter when we complain to companies, just look how quickly "we" forced a price cut from Microsoft and how "we" got a better screen for GBA from Nintendo.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:32
Metal Slug wrote:
>Sony did everything right with the PSX, and then
>they seem to have managed to live off of the
>'good will' created by that, a kind of
>'playstation-bounce' to keep their market
>domination regardless of the fact that the PS2 is
>in almost every way an inferior machine to the
>Xbox or even in many ways to the GameCube.
Apart from two very minor points, marketing and software.
MS tried very hard to market Xbox as "cool" at launch, but regardless of how well the marketing boys did, it truly f**ked up on the price point in the UK - laughably having to lower it within weeks of launch. With that shot in the foot all but forgotten, and a couple of additional price cuts under the belt, things are looking pretty dandy for the The Box.
Nintendo, it seems, couldn't market its way out of a damp, rotting box, in the west at least. While I love the design of the 'Cube, it hardly set pulses racing in members of the "mass market".
Software at launch for both was pretty dire, both in quality and quantity. Of course, it could be argued the same was true for the PS2, but the quantity issue was quickly resolved, and a handful of excellent platform exclusives made the "one to have".
So, back to the point. Inferior how? Technologically? Who gives a rats ass for tech superiority if it doesn't have the games I want and embarasses me when my friends come round and see said box loitering under the telly?
>Wether that 'good-will' will extend to the public
>abandoning a 15 year relationship with Nintendo
>Handhelds to pay twice as much for a Sony machine
I feel you value brand loyalty to highly. You're also, I notice, ignoring the fact that Sony intends to market PSP to a broader demographic, with its broader features set.
>with a battery pack that straps to your damn arm!
LOL. You smokin' crack, dude.
>As to me being a Nintendo Fanboy?
>Would I be banging on about how much better the
>Lynx and Gamegear were than the Gameboy classic?
>Would my screen name be a NeoGeo game?
It's possible to be loyal to multiple brands and still qualify as a fanboy. You just have to hate one brand to the point of obsession for those lovable fanboy traits to shine through.
In this case, it's seems Sony is the brand that's close to your spleen.
>Even the humble GBA has the ability (via a £20
>add-on) to play video, but that's hardly been
>setting the marketplace on fire!
>Why? because its just a gimmick, not the main
>event.
>Just like camera phones!
That'll be why I see so many idiots trying to take pictures with the poxy comeraphones, then.
>Less than 3% of owners send 1 or more picture a
>day. GIMMICK!
Send, yes. Take and download, different game fella.
>By the time the PSP hits the shelves (especially
>here in the UK) there will be a bag load of
>similar handheld products that will play various
>types of media with various other features, some
>of which the PSP will have, others it won't. Its
>not going to be the only horse in town for
>watching movies on the go, and as a games
>machine, it'll be bulky, expensive
Bulky, ay? That'll be the crack again. You want a nice big display like the PSP's, you gotta live with the size.
It will, of course, be the only horse to play movies, music and games. Expensive? If it did just one of those, yes. All of them? it is, as they say, right on the money.
>Sony did everything right with the PSX, and then
>they seem to have managed to live off of the
>'good will' created by that, a kind of
>'playstation-bounce' to keep their market
>domination regardless of the fact that the PS2 is
>in almost every way an inferior machine to the
>Xbox or even in many ways to the GameCube.
Apart from two very minor points, marketing and software.
MS tried very hard to market Xbox as "cool" at launch, but regardless of how well the marketing boys did, it truly f**ked up on the price point in the UK - laughably having to lower it within weeks of launch. With that shot in the foot all but forgotten, and a couple of additional price cuts under the belt, things are looking pretty dandy for the The Box.
Nintendo, it seems, couldn't market its way out of a damp, rotting box, in the west at least. While I love the design of the 'Cube, it hardly set pulses racing in members of the "mass market".
Software at launch for both was pretty dire, both in quality and quantity. Of course, it could be argued the same was true for the PS2, but the quantity issue was quickly resolved, and a handful of excellent platform exclusives made the "one to have".
So, back to the point. Inferior how? Technologically? Who gives a rats ass for tech superiority if it doesn't have the games I want and embarasses me when my friends come round and see said box loitering under the telly?
>Wether that 'good-will' will extend to the public
>abandoning a 15 year relationship with Nintendo
>Handhelds to pay twice as much for a Sony machine
I feel you value brand loyalty to highly. You're also, I notice, ignoring the fact that Sony intends to market PSP to a broader demographic, with its broader features set.
>with a battery pack that straps to your damn arm!
LOL. You smokin' crack, dude.
>As to me being a Nintendo Fanboy?
>Would I be banging on about how much better the
>Lynx and Gamegear were than the Gameboy classic?
>Would my screen name be a NeoGeo game?
It's possible to be loyal to multiple brands and still qualify as a fanboy. You just have to hate one brand to the point of obsession for those lovable fanboy traits to shine through.
In this case, it's seems Sony is the brand that's close to your spleen.
>Even the humble GBA has the ability (via a £20
>add-on) to play video, but that's hardly been
>setting the marketplace on fire!
>Why? because its just a gimmick, not the main
>event.
>Just like camera phones!
That'll be why I see so many idiots trying to take pictures with the poxy comeraphones, then.
>Less than 3% of owners send 1 or more picture a
>day. GIMMICK!
Send, yes. Take and download, different game fella.
>By the time the PSP hits the shelves (especially
>here in the UK) there will be a bag load of
>similar handheld products that will play various
>types of media with various other features, some
>of which the PSP will have, others it won't. Its
>not going to be the only horse in town for
>watching movies on the go, and as a games
>machine, it'll be bulky, expensive
Bulky, ay? That'll be the crack again. You want a nice big display like the PSP's, you gotta live with the size.
It will, of course, be the only horse to play movies, music and games. Expensive? If it did just one of those, yes. All of them? it is, as they say, right on the money.
Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:38
DoctorDee wrote:
>Metal Slug wrote:
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if
>you know the history of
>that episode, it was a
>combined project with
>Nintendo,
I'm familiar
>with the history. However, that has nothing to do
>with how Sony turned being a technical consultant
>on another manufacturers product into Market
>domination. Your point was Sony cannot hope to
>reverse handheld gaming trends of the last 15
>yrears. My point is that they did it with console
>trends... so why not?
No, we were talking about Sony trying to compete with the DS by releasing a much more expensive offering. My point was that this coupled with a few other minor points is not the way to try and compete with a 15 year tradition of dominance for Ninty and failure for more expensive alternatives.
And as for the PSX, I've said above, Sony did everything right after Nintendo tried to shaft them, and Nintendo did everything wrong! The rest as they say.......
>*MS* Umm, so you aren't
>old enough to remember
>just HOW MUCH better the
>Lynx and GameGear were
>than the original
>GB?
Oh, don't be a f**king cock. I was editor
>of Europe's best selling computer leisure
>magazine when those particular battles
>happened.
Read my point before you reply,
>neither Gamegear nor Lynx could play MP3s or
>movies.
OOoo, am I supposed to be impressed? The former 'editor
of Europe's best selling computer leisure
magazine' Can't make a point without resorting to cheap abuse?
Oh, and as we were discussing the battle between Lynx, Gamegear, and GameBoy Classic, did you play many MP3's or movies on your original Gameboy?
Stop being an idiot. Your points are so slanted, is that why you are a 'former' editor?
>*MS* Actually, and considering the
>timescale
>before the cancellation of the
>advertising budget
>for the NGPC after the fatal
>takeover by Aruze
>the start was as I said
>'reasonably strong'. The
>fact that you liken it
>to the GameGear (The most
>dangerous competitor
>to the GB in its 15 year
>history) sort of goes
>to prove my point doesn't
>it?
You said that
>ONLY the Neo Geo had been a competitor to the
>Game Boy, now you contradict youself completely
>and say that the Gamegear was a valid competitor
>too.
They were all 'valid competitors', didn't stop Nintendo 'knocking them out'. Of course the Sega machine was 'most dangerous' Sega were as big as Nintendo at the time. Doesn't that just go to prove my point about price point being a key factor regardless of the size of the company's name and reputation. SNK were relatively unknown in Europe but the NGPC made a relatively strong start against the GBC, and a factor in that was the similar price. Do you have a point?
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by
>fanboys.
That WAS my point.
But I said it
>first, and much more eloquently. You just didn't
>seem to get it.
Really, still missing it actually ;)
Like you missed/ignored the rest of my post!
Just looks like a fanboy, mooching, journalist hoping for a freebie PSP to review!
Gonna have to pucker-up buttercup!
>Metal Slug wrote:
>*Reply by MS* In Fact if
>you know the history of
>that episode, it was a
>combined project with
>Nintendo,
I'm familiar
>with the history. However, that has nothing to do
>with how Sony turned being a technical consultant
>on another manufacturers product into Market
>domination. Your point was Sony cannot hope to
>reverse handheld gaming trends of the last 15
>yrears. My point is that they did it with console
>trends... so why not?
No, we were talking about Sony trying to compete with the DS by releasing a much more expensive offering. My point was that this coupled with a few other minor points is not the way to try and compete with a 15 year tradition of dominance for Ninty and failure for more expensive alternatives.
And as for the PSX, I've said above, Sony did everything right after Nintendo tried to shaft them, and Nintendo did everything wrong! The rest as they say.......
>*MS* Umm, so you aren't
>old enough to remember
>just HOW MUCH better the
>Lynx and GameGear were
>than the original
>GB?
Oh, don't be a f**king cock. I was editor
>of Europe's best selling computer leisure
>magazine when those particular battles
>happened.
Read my point before you reply,
>neither Gamegear nor Lynx could play MP3s or
>movies.
OOoo, am I supposed to be impressed? The former 'editor
of Europe's best selling computer leisure
magazine' Can't make a point without resorting to cheap abuse?
Oh, and as we were discussing the battle between Lynx, Gamegear, and GameBoy Classic, did you play many MP3's or movies on your original Gameboy?
Stop being an idiot. Your points are so slanted, is that why you are a 'former' editor?
>*MS* Actually, and considering the
>timescale
>before the cancellation of the
>advertising budget
>for the NGPC after the fatal
>takeover by Aruze
>the start was as I said
>'reasonably strong'. The
>fact that you liken it
>to the GameGear (The most
>dangerous competitor
>to the GB in its 15 year
>history) sort of goes
>to prove my point doesn't
>it?
You said that
>ONLY the Neo Geo had been a competitor to the
>Game Boy, now you contradict youself completely
>and say that the Gamegear was a valid competitor
>too.
They were all 'valid competitors', didn't stop Nintendo 'knocking them out'. Of course the Sega machine was 'most dangerous' Sega were as big as Nintendo at the time. Doesn't that just go to prove my point about price point being a key factor regardless of the size of the company's name and reputation. SNK were relatively unknown in Europe but the NGPC made a relatively strong start against the GBC, and a factor in that was the similar price. Do you have a point?
>*MS* Ahh, how the facts are ignored by
>fanboys.
That WAS my point.
But I said it
>first, and much more eloquently. You just didn't
>seem to get it.
Really, still missing it actually ;)
Like you missed/ignored the rest of my post!
Just looks like a fanboy, mooching, journalist hoping for a freebie PSP to review!
Gonna have to pucker-up buttercup!
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2130 comments
>Sony think thery can overturn the entire handheld
>market's trends of the last 15 years?
Yeah, just like they had no chance against Sega and Nintendo, who "dominated" the mid nineties console market.
>Everyone who has released a competitor to the
>GameBoy (or soon to be DS) with an inflated
>pricepoint has doomed it from the start.
True. But no one released a competitor that was MILES better than GB, and could play movies, and music.
> Only the
>NeoGeo Pocket made a reasonably strong start
>against the GBC
It didn't. Indeed, in terms of market share, it did no better than the Sega Gamegear.
>What about Nokia's recent little failure?
Which sold more than SNK Neo Geo Pocket Colour in the UK.
>A few will buy anything, some will buy
>everything, the sensible money will buy the
>Nintendo.
>*GAME OVER*
Ah, how reason and logic shrivel under the blazing glare of outrageous jingoism.