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Topic started: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:27Log-in or register to post to this topic.
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:08
kid_77 wrote:
Obviously HL2 is a massive improvement over HL, there's 6 years between them. But do you honestly believe PM2 has more major and worthwile features than it's prequel compared to Halo 2 and it's prequel? Two words: Xbox Live.
Yeah.. I find online gaming a bit boring tbh.. but that's just my opinion..
As I said though ... I dont care what you like/dont like to play and which consoles you do or dont own.. as long as im having fun playing my games..
Which is why i dont get fanboys.. which is my point..
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:12
I found some official world wide sales figures yesturday.. As of the start of this year:
PS2 : 80 million
XBox : 16 million
Gcube : 14 million
Obviously the cube looks pants when compared to the ps2.. but then it's not exactly miles behind the xbox..
And I understand that the cube makes a profit for each machine sold, whereas the box makes a loss.
Not to mention selling rare for a tidy sum a year or so back (my memory fails me).
Tell me who's laughing all the way to the bank?
PS2 : 80 million
XBox : 16 million
Gcube : 14 million
Obviously the cube looks pants when compared to the ps2.. but then it's not exactly miles behind the xbox..
And I understand that the cube makes a profit for each machine sold, whereas the box makes a loss.
Not to mention selling rare for a tidy sum a year or so back (my memory fails me).
Tell me who's laughing all the way to the bank?
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:14
kid_77 wrote:
Oooo you little nit-picker :-)
Yeah, I', annoying pedantic w****r, andit never helps people take my arguments seriously. But I am trying to make some serious points here.
Funny. I seem to get my hands on good music quite easily, and I can't see it changing.
I am far less optimisitic than you.
Don't know about historical music industry economics, but I'd guess todays big corp's are, well, bigger than before.
Not just bigger than before, but humongous, and unhealthily so. How can we have freedom of choice when there is no choice?
Try this interesting article, particularly the paragraph entitled "The Big Five"
But there is a healthy middle-tier (Skint, Warp).
Hmmm, but the middle tier keeps disappearing. I'm more into indie than electronics, but take a look at what happened to Food, Creation, 4AD, even Virgin. THey got swallowed whole by corporations.
Simply put, if you'd played Aphex Twin to anybody in the 50's, you'd freak them out.
Yeah, but don't assume everything was invented yesterday. The roots of almost all modern music go back to the sixties, the sound of Punk was ripped right from the Stooges, Metal from the MC5 and Led Zep, Grunge is basically Garage rock played extra loud. Even the electronic music you love so much would have happened in the Sixties if the instruments has existed. Brian Jones was already using the Theramin to do freaky s**t on the Smile sessions. And if you played Autechre, Aphex Twin, Jetone or Crystal Method to a fan of 1977 Kraftwerk or 1981 Cabaret Voltaire, you would barely raise an eyebrow.
Play anything from the 50's to a kid today, and they'd have heard it all before.
There is more musical variety today, and I can't see how can say otherwise.
There is more musical variety today, and I can't see how can say otherwise.
Be-Bop, Doo-wap, Rockabilly, Chamber Music, Gregorian Chants and many other forms that were common years ago are now almost dead from a commercial perspective. There are a few new things, a few old things have diesd out, I don;t believe there is more choice... I do beleive that corporations are seeking to limit that choice.
Not all musicians want to end up on TOTP. Sure they want to have a career, but you don't have to suck EMI's corporate cock to live confortably.
Where does your economic data come from? I used to roadie with bands, well known ones - cover of Sounds (in its day), NME articles, indie top ten singles. They NEVER made a single penny, never mind a living.
Julian Cope, after several top ten hits, several TOTP appearances, many, many, magazine articles, left Teardrop Explodes owing Mercury records hundreds of thousands of pounds.
And Courtney Love's speech to the Digital Hollywood online entertainment conference makes interesting reading.
If you have musical talent (obviously within the bounds of a niche taste) you'll find someone who'll take you one. Small label bosses, living in the real world, would be happy to sell 100,000 records.
Which is fine as long as there are record shops around to sell them. But as music distribution movers on-line, through closed systems such as Xbox Live, you'll only be able to download what the corporation controlling the channel wants you to download. And corporations have already proveen that they'd rather have one "Five" than five "Ash"s - less paperwork, less recording cost, less "risk". It's easier to pull the strinfgs of five clueless talentless, *grateful* w****rs than handle the capricious genius of real musicians. It's better to dim the minds of the masses with song about love and the weekend than calls to arms over detention without trial.
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:31
Smelly wrote:
I found some official world wide sales figures yesturday.. As of the start of this year:
PS2 : 80 million
XBox : 16 million
Gcube : 14 million
Obviously the cube looks pants when compared to the ps2.. but then it's not exactly miles behind the xbox..
And I understand that the cube makes a profit for each machine sold, whereas the box makes a loss.
Not to mention selling rare for a tidy sum a year or so back (my memory fails me).
Tell me who's laughing all the way to the bank?
PS2 : 80 million
XBox : 16 million
Gcube : 14 million
Obviously the cube looks pants when compared to the ps2.. but then it's not exactly miles behind the xbox..
And I understand that the cube makes a profit for each machine sold, whereas the box makes a loss.
Not to mention selling rare for a tidy sum a year or so back (my memory fails me).
Tell me who's laughing all the way to the bank?
Well since M$ are wealthier than the average 3-rd world country, I'm guessing M$ (isn't capitalism great?)
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:40
Didn't this get posted yesterday, then disappeared? I actually carried on with another of my tedious views, but I can't be arsed to replicate it.
I'll give those articles a read on the train later; at a glimpse they look very interesting. Cheers.
The world ain't fair. Talent gets ignored, and the musically challenged s**t-mass will get pumped at the masses. But then, when considering the general public, they deserve all they get.
I'll stay optimistic that emotionally intelligent music will continue to reach me. But after reading those articles, no doubt I'll turn into a grumpy old fart like you, Dr ;-)
I'll give those articles a read on the train later; at a glimpse they look very interesting. Cheers.
The world ain't fair. Talent gets ignored, and the musically challenged s**t-mass will get pumped at the masses. But then, when considering the general public, they deserve all they get.
I'll stay optimistic that emotionally intelligent music will continue to reach me. But after reading those articles, no doubt I'll turn into a grumpy old fart like you, Dr ;-)
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:47
kid_77 wrote:
Didn't this get posted yesterday, then disappeared?
No, well... nearly. We had a problem interpretting null character strings - the "smart quotes" apostrophes in your posting got badly converted, and the thing I posted yesterday got cut off in its prime, and I lost it all.
But the re-written version is much better ;-)
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:15
Smelly wrote:
You fail to see the point. If the games you like stop making money, people won't continue making them. That's why developers are deserting the Gamecube.
My point being.. is that i dont care if people buy it or not.. worse case scenario.. nintendo stop making consoles and go software only.. why does that matter jot to me? I'll just get the other machine, and carry on playing great games.
The only reason I care is because i'm not made of money and don't want to see my £1000 wasted because after 2 years the shops don't want to sell it anymore and i'm stuck with a console, games I've played and the prospect of having to shell out another load of money to buy the console I thought was going to failure when I was presented with a choice...
#1: Need for Speed Underground 2 (racing)
#2: Metroid Prime 2 (it's first-person, and you shoot)
#3: The Incredibles (movie tie-in)
#5: Lord of the Rings: The Third Age (movie tie-in)
#7: Goldeneye: Rogue Agent (obvious)
#9: Spider-Man 2 (hello movie tie-in)
#1: Need for Speed Underground 2 (racing)
#2: Metroid Prime 2 (it's first-person, and you shoot)
#3: The Incredibles (movie tie-in)
#5: Lord of the Rings: The Third Age (movie tie-in)
#7: Goldeneye: Rogue Agent (obvious)
#9: Spider-Man 2 (hello movie tie-in)
Again.. as I said.. I dont care if other people want to play crap.. i'm happy being selective and playing good games.. What other people do is their business.
I just dont get fanboys who go on saying "boohoo - gcube hasnt sold as many as ps2" or "ner ner ner ner, my machine has sold more than yours!".. who bloody cares?
I have a games console to play games... I dont care about anything else.. and neither should you..
As for yer paper mario 2 comment.. there is a distinct difference between a sequel which is a marked improvement over the original.. and mindless "more of the same crap" such as halo 2 or metroid 2 (both of which i consider to be tosh - but then i've been spoiled by hl2).
.. and i know hl2 is a sequel.. but look at the improvements they made over the original...
It also helps that I like a lot of the Xbox's games... that said, I do have a GC, but it has been collecting dust for about 6 months now and won't be dusted off till the pal release of Resi Evil 4
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:15
Funny you mentioned Torus Trooper, because I downloaded it last month and what a lovely little game it is. Kenta Cho has some talent and it's good to play something simple, clever and yet very addictive. It also reminds me of days gone by when these kinds of shoot em ups were played more.
Chaos Field looks cool but the shame is very few gamers know of its existence. Other good imports on GC are the three Naruto beat em up games (possibly the next best beat em ups after GC Soul Calibur 2, but unfortunately were not released for us outside of japan, typical).
Uplink I haven't played but I'll look around for it.
Chaos Field looks cool but the shame is very few gamers know of its existence. Other good imports on GC are the three Naruto beat em up games (possibly the next best beat em ups after GC Soul Calibur 2, but unfortunately were not released for us outside of japan, typical).
Uplink I haven't played but I'll look around for it.
Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:51
config wrote:
OMG!!!!
You dared to mention "Rev" Stuart Campbell on our forums. Bad Nik! BAAAAAD Nik.
Now go to your room!
:)
You dared to mention "Rev" Stuart Campbell on our forums. Bad Nik! BAAAAAD Nik.
Now go to your room!
:)
Hmm, lots of people seem to hate him... I also used to visit Dave Perry's site! *shot*
Smelly wrote:
I found some official world wide sales figures yesturday.. As of the start of this year:
PS2 : 80 million
XBox : 16 million
Gcube : 14 million
Obviously the cube looks pants when compared to the ps2.. but then it's not exactly miles behind the xbox..
And I understand that the cube makes a profit for each machine sold, whereas the box makes a loss.
Not to mention selling rare for a tidy sum a year or so back (my memory fails me).
Tell me who's laughing all the way to the bank?
PS2 : 80 million
XBox : 16 million
Gcube : 14 million
Obviously the cube looks pants when compared to the ps2.. but then it's not exactly miles behind the xbox..
And I understand that the cube makes a profit for each machine sold, whereas the box makes a loss.
Not to mention selling rare for a tidy sum a year or so back (my memory fails me).
Tell me who's laughing all the way to the bank?
Xbox developers. Xbox software typically sells far more than Gamecube software (last time I checked a sales percentage breakdown, nearly four times as much). That's why the GC is being called dead.
Meanwhile, if your figures are true, then this tells me:
- Sony sold 10 million PS2s in 2004 (70 million 2003 end, 80 million 2005 beginning). Sounds about right.
- Microsoft sold 2.3 million Xbox consoles (13.7 million 2003 end, 16 million 2005 beginning). Not shoddy.
- Nintendo sold 0.6 million Gamecubes (13.94 million 2003 end, 14 million 2005 beginning). Oh dear.
(2003 end figures source: GamesTM issue 24)
Joji wrote:
Funny you mentioned Torus Trooper, because I downloaded it last month and what a lovely little game it is. Kenta Cho has some talent and it's good to play something simple, clever and yet very addictive. It also reminds me of days gone by when these kinds of shoot em ups were played more.
Indeed, this is part of the reason I continue buying new Japanese Dreamcast releases. The genre is quite prevalent on the system.
Chaos Field looks cool but the shame is very few gamers know of its existence. Other good imports on GC are the three Naruto beat em up games (possibly the next best beat em ups after GC Soul Calibur 2, but unfortunately were not released for us outside of japan, typical).
I'm personally hoping somebody will decide to bring GC Chaos Field over to flesh out the release schedule a bit. I'll check out the Naruto fighters, thanks for the suggestion.
Uplink I haven't played but I'll look around for it.
It's a by a three-man UK team called Introversion. Hacking game fun!
Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:39
Xbox software typically sells far more than Gamecube software (last time I checked a sales percentage breakdown, nearly four times as much). That's why the GC is being called dead.
Hmm.. actually that is quite wrong. The cube still has the highest software to hardware ratio of all the platforms... i.e. How many games owned per console user.
But you're right in that crappy 3rd party games (well in 3rd party games in general) dont sell none to well on it. Dont know why this is, my personal bet is that cube owners are more grown up and wont buy a crap movie tie in or something... but looking at the chart shown earlier - im obviously wrong on this belief... so dunno *shrugs*.
Believe it or not but most games shops only like to have a maximum of 2 versions of a multi-format game on display (dont want one game hogging shelf space). Now if yer doing a multiplatform game.. the ps2 is a given (you'd be mad not to), then you have the choice of the other 2..
xb is cheaper and easier to develop for, and there is a slight few more of them around... so that's what you opt for.
But that doesnt matter.. as cube owners (such as myselft) dont tend to buy multiplatform games anyhows (i know i dont, and if i do, i tend to get the pc version).
To me, the cube STILL has the best exclusive games (which i cant get on my pc) anyhow. I would get an xb for halo, but i can get it for my pc, at better frame rates/resolutions.. Same goes for the ps2 and gta... So I cant see the point in getting either of them... If I could play pikmin/mario/etc etc on my pc, then i wouldnt bother with the cube either..
cest-la-vie.
Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:01
Smelly wrote:
Xbox software typically sells far more than Gamecube software (last time I checked a sales percentage breakdown, nearly four times as much). That's why the GC is being called dead.
First off, how come you're replying to me, yet quoting NikTheGreek? :/
Smelly wrote:
Hmm.. actually that is quite wrong. The cube still has the highest software to hardware ratio of all the platforms... i.e. How many games owned per console user.
As the Norwich Union Car Insurance TV advert goes: "I want you to quote me happy!" i.e. back it up with a press cutting. I'm not saying you're lying, btw.
Perhaps NiktheGreek's sales breakdown was based on the latest quarterly sales, not total software sales? Thus provding a picture of the current market trends?
Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:01
Smelly wrote:
Xbox software typically sells far more than Gamecube software (last time I checked a sales percentage breakdown, nearly four times as much). That's why the GC is being called dead.
Hmm.. actually that is quite wrong. The cube still has the highest software to hardware ratio of all the platforms... i.e. How many games owned per console user.
Let me explain my statement. Back on September 28th, Config posted these figures in a topic about Warp Pipe:
"According the ChartTrack, this week's software sales by platform break down like this...
38.6% PC (Sims2 power!)
37.7% PS2
12.7% Xbox
5.1% GBA
3.3% GC
2.5% PS1"
Now, the presence of "Sims2 power!" indicates that it was an unusual week for PC in that it had a killer-app release. But did the Xbox have anything that may have accounted for a sales leap too? Let's look at the charts for September 25th to find out.
1. The Sims 2
2. Star Wars: Battlefront
3. Burnout 3: Takedown
4. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005
5. Warhammer 40,000: Dawn Of War
6. Resident Evil: Outbreak
7. Conflict: Vietnam
8. The Simpsons: Hit & Run
9. Call Of Duty: United Offensive
10. Colin McRae Rally 2005
That would be no, then. And it's a fairly recent example of a fairly typical week.
Check out these US figures from the NPD:
PS2
Hardware units sold June-August ’04 (NPD)
943,953
Software units sold July-August ’04 (NPD)
14,420,279
Software to hardware tie-ratio (August NPD, life-to-date)
8.6
Xbox
Hardware units sold June-August ’04 (NPD)
681,703
Software units sold July-August ’04 (NPD)
7,804,880
Software to hardware tie-ratio (August NPD, life-to-date)
7.1
GameCube
Hardware units sold June-August ’04 (NPD)
310,703
Software units sold July-August ’04 (NPD)
4,669,788
Software to hardware tie-ratio (August NPD, life-to-date)
6.7
So as you can see from these figures (noticing that software to hardware ratios are "life-to-date"), Gamecube has the lowest software to hardware ratio (and don't forget this is in the world's biggest market, the US).
But that doesnt matter.. as cube owners (such as myselft) dont tend to buy multiplatform games anyhows (i know i dont, and if i do, i tend to get the pc version).
Please check this week's Gamecube chart. Six of the ten games are multi-platform.
Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:51
Last week's UK sales (units) went something like this, again, according to ChartTrack figures;
43.7% PS2
33.1% PC
10.9% Xbox
6.7% GBA
3.5% GC
1.7% PS1
Not a perfect example, though, as there was an across-the-board 46% drop in sales - so much for January sales...
It's pretty indicative, though. Just to demonstrate, here's how things stood on week 52 - the Christmas chart week;
51.9% PS2
22.4% PC
11.6% Xbox
7.6% GBA
3.5% GC
1.8% PS1
43.7% PS2
33.1% PC
10.9% Xbox
6.7% GBA
3.5% GC
1.7% PS1
Not a perfect example, though, as there was an across-the-board 46% drop in sales - so much for January sales...
It's pretty indicative, though. Just to demonstrate, here's how things stood on week 52 - the Christmas chart week;
51.9% PS2
22.4% PC
11.6% Xbox
7.6% GBA
3.5% GC
1.8% PS1
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2088 comments
OMG!!!!
You dared to mention "Rev" Stuart Campbell on our forums. Bad Nik! BAAAAAD Nik.
Now go to your room!
:)