Best games of all time

I agree 100%. Team Fortress is still the high point of internet gaming, in my opinion. I haven't played it in years, but the amount of fun I had playing that far outshines CS:S.

The only thing that has come close is getting together online with some old friends to play the old Doom franchises that have been ported over into 3d (and it's free!)

TFC was definitely good. Set a bar for multiplayer squad based/job style combat. Different types of players being intergral parts to the overall strategy.
Just wish TFC 2 would have came out.

As for Fallout, such a fantastic game series (1 and 2).

As for the Final Fantasy debate, FFVII didn't do anything to set back the RPG combat/gameplay dynamic. Any other game out at that period had the same if not more shallow game dynamic. FFVII was also just a build on the previous FF games systems.

And Joji is right, FFVI is the best Final Fantasy period. The right mix of machinery and magic, FFVII was too "techno" for it's own good. Still love the game, but love FFVI more.

Without meaning to incur the wroth of most people in this thread, I really enjoyed FFVII, admittedly I haven't played any of the others but that's besides the point. The reason I like it, is I used to play it in my college years with two mates who introduced me to it.
I kind of feel the same about Tomb Raider 2, just because it was played as a group and we had some really good times. I don't think they're the best games ever, just to me they remind me of some good times.

I'm not going to list the obvious as I think everyone has covered most of my favourite's, apart from:

Repton (Acorn)
R-Type (Arcade)

Quake 2, UT & UT2004 Onslaught, these are three of my favourite's because of the multiplayer aspect, I used to play Quake 2 & UT on a LAN which was a great way to spend lunch time, now I enjoy a bit of Onslaught, when I can find a good server!

Prepare for my wrath. Kidding aside, I think that FF7 did set gameplay back, not because of the system, but the way the system was implemented. Take, for example, Phantasy Star 2 and FF7.

Both are turn based combat, with little actual interaction. However, with PS2 I can finish most battles in a minute or so. With FF7, If I decide to cast a summon, I have to sit through a long animation that I've seen about 100 times before, get bored, and wonder what other games I have to play. The Playstation game Legend of Dragoon had a great solution: Have an option for shortened animations. The first time you cast a spell, you get the long, drawn out action, but after that it's just the beginning and end. Far superior, in my opinion.

However, there were other games (really early ones) that had great systems, such as Shining Force, and the early Ultima series (although gathering Herbs for magic was just plain dumb)

I thought Fallout Tactics, despite its "heretical" story and whatnot, was a solid Fallout game.

Oh yeah, a new one for people to possibly discuss: Pathways into Darkness. THAT was one hard FPS.

Lol, the word is spelt wrath Miacid.

Fairplay to you, I enjoyed FFVII too and I'm glad it holds good gaming memories in your heart. Memories of fun times had are possibly the best part of any gaming experience.

It's always good to have some good times with friends before you end up knee deep in 2.4 kids etc.

I suppose if you have a DS it would be a good idea to jump back in the FF series and see how bad ass it really was starting with GBA FF I+II Dawn of Souls. Then you can look for FFIV which hits has it's u.s release next week (FFIII is on DS remember). FF V and VI should be out sometime next year. This will be the first time you'll get to have the whole series so it's worth investing in them.

I hope once S.E have the FF series all done that they'll then move on to do all the Dragon Quest series which has never really left japan with the same results as FF.

Your both wrong, it's spelt bigHairyLargeCrookedMan- -Penis. Okay now that that's out of the way, TwoADay, your not really making a fair or even good arguement. Do you not realize what Final Fantasy did for RPGs?! One of the first to implement an ATB (Active Time Battle system, FFIV), revolving cast of playable characters (FFIV-FFX), a different spin on leveling and upgrading in each one (buying spells in FFI, FFIII and FFV with the job system, FFVIs espers, FFVIIs materia), unsurpased visuals and interactivity (ground shattering and sometimes ground hurtling summons, super special limit breaks and the like), etc.

What you fail to realize is that in each Final Fantasy, there was a varying degree of learning that had to be done to get a head on the new game mechanics. If you solely focus your arguement on Final Fantasy VII so be it.

FFVII was THE game that made video games hip and cool and trendy, for better or worse. They upped the bar so the only ones who could beat it where themselves and they did time and time again. As for your deal with the super long summoning (dealt with in FFX), you seem to be telling me you'd rather have simpler game mechanics and LESS interactivity (remember interactive doesn't always mean 'push A to attack iron giant') than have to sit through groundbreaking and dazzling magic attacks. And Shinging Force is a tactical strategy game, not a pure RPG, so that's also a bad example. If you want to nitpick about the fghting system, talk about how all standard RPGs can't program the monsters to know they've already turned the little blonde spikey haired protaganist into a toad and to not do it again until he's changed back to a human. Or how 95% of all boss battles devolve into how built up your characters are and how long it will take to whittle down your opponents unfathomable HP meter. Oh and Legend of Dragoon came out in 2000, three years after the release of FFVII, so um, no dice.

RPGs would be nowhere near the state their are now if not for FFVII. I know it's not perfect, that's FFVI, but to tell me that Final Fantasy VII has set the back gameplay or any other aspect of of gaming is pure bullshit.

Okay I'm done, it's someone else's turn.

Thanks for the spelling tip Joji, I certainly need them 8~)



This is why I find it hard to pick a favourite game, as everyone takes something different from each gaming experience. So it's been good reading this thread, it's just I wish I could fit more gaming hours into my day!



I do plan on getting a DS in the new year sometime, although I have an SP so might look up FF I & II.
I've also heard a lot about Dragon Quest games, again it comes down to time or the lack there of 8~(

just completed Killer7 for the gamecube last nite.
it is BRILLIANT.
whenn i first bought, i was convinced i wasted £40. so i left it.but then month or two after my mate bill got it and said he loved it, so i got back into.it is so good.
in a way im thankful i didnt like it at the start because that experince has lead me to a conclusion:
There are 2types of gamers in this world, gamers that love Killer7 and gamers that dont understand Killer7.

buy this game, however it will take u tilla bout the 3rd level to appreciate it...give it time and it will give u one of the best endings ever...The End?

Wot bout any of the new games for the 360

R any of dem worthy of bieng mentiond here?

PGR coudl be the best semi realistic arcade racer ever made

and condemed is the best first person horror mystewry adventure / hobo beating simulation ever

but overal i dont think any of them come close to the kind of honor you are speaking of.

______________

Lupos,in relation to your sig, dsnews.co.uk has a decent online community.im not advertising,im just letting others aware of the options they have.im madge over at dsnews.co.uk,cuz i got banned for swearing the first time so had to rename myself.

Gah. I could go on for hours. I won't stick to consoles either; it's very stream on conciousness.

The short short version:

Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Sam and Max Hit the Road
Halo
Perfect Dark
Mario 64
Gran Turismo 2
Jade Cocoon 2
Guitar Hero
Dead or Alive 2
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
WWF Raw (N64 version)
Baldur's Gate II
Neverwinter Nights
TIE Fighter
Mega Bomberman
Zombies Ate My Neighbours!
Resident Evil (Saturn version)

Now, a more interesting one would be worst...

I was basing my opinions on FF7, none of the earlier ones (I have only played FF1 prior to 7, and am currently playing 1&2 on the GBA. Thus far, I'm finding them far more enjoyable than FF7)

I am among those that would agree that RPGs would be nowhere near the state they are in if not for FFVII. I argue that they would be better without FFVII.

Alight, so Shining Force is a "Tactical RPG." but that doesn't mean that you can't use that type of battle system in a "Real" RPG. I'll return to Fallout. Combat there is so far superior to anything the Final Fantasies have ever come up with, it's not funny.

"But TwoADay, they're not the same style of game!" some may argue. Okay, they aren't. But they're both RPGs, and one is nice to look at for the first hour or two, and then gets bogged down by is horrible play mechanics, as well as its lack of items and customization. The other stays fresh throughout, because you have lots of options in combat.

In short, I am making the statement that while FF7 is a huge influence on the industry, it is also hindering the development of gameplay. The systems are increadibly shallow and boring, and we all as gamers would be better off if there were no more RPGs that depended on their antiquainted mechanics.

And I'm also somewhat troubled that it appears that no one here has played Pathways into Darkness. For Shame!

(*ahem) Better check yoself,... and check my username. Yeah I can change my icon to the pipboy myself but seeing as how you can't change a username (config? tyrion? Is this true?), I inturn am a more hardcore Fallout fan. Fallout 1 and 2 are number two on my list of favorite all time games. Second only to Final Fantasy VI.

Anyways, the combat in Fallout is far different than in Final Fantasy. To call one better than the other is based on preference. Fact. Now I do agree that Fallout is by far more entrenched in strategy than any Final Fantasy game, but one can make Final Fantasy more complex not just by adding hexes and turns and LOSes. For one, smarter AI, maybe more prefight positioning, who knows. What I do know is that Squaresoft, now Square-Enix did nothing to contribute to the basicness of traditional RPGs. Namco, Koei, Sony. Atlus, or any other traditional RPG developer has done anything remarkable for the battle system. I'd like one example to prove me wrong.

I would say that the LOTR RPG of EA (that Third age something) has a better combat system than FF7. It isn't any of that ATB crap but it's still turned based. But it decides who's turn it is on a number of parameters as who has the highest rating of speed and dexterity and if your ambushed yes or no, who's turn it wil be you can then see on the right side of the screen thanks to some nifty icons.

Lowering the speed rating of your enemy will affect the order of this turntabel so he has to wait longer for its turn. It's brilliant in its simplicity, only if I had figured it out sooner.

The Tales Of Battlesystem proves that RPG-battles can actually be fun in a Smash Brothers Melee kind of way. Maybe not as tactical as Fallout or Shining Force (that game was hard) but it made leveling up a fun thing instead of tedious as with most other japanese RPG's.