Game-Over-Cube

Damn!
Did Q*Bert REALLY own Bostock Records?

S**t, I really wish I'd got his autograph...

It WAS Bostocks. And I did buy Q-Bert there.

But my little exclamation party was a WTF! was a record shop doing selling Coleco Vision consoles, not a veiled reference the the Q-Bert box. I know nowadays, HMV, Virgin, Our Price and everyone is trying to get in on the computer games gig. But back when the Coleco was cutting edge technology record shops sold records, and they were 12" diameter, and black, and made of vinyl.

Everybody saw it coming. Nintendo consoles have a habit of falling dead at the final hurdles. Look at how the N64 trailed off, for example.

The biggest problem for the cube was simple: it lacked good advertising. They should have been pimping the console out on kid's channels from the start, getting developers to do more grown-up games so they could pimp it in men's mags like FHM...

I still own my Saturn, bought year of release. It's gone through a battery, of course- but NiGHTS still works and the batteries are cheap, so i care not.

So far, i have owned 1 of every generation of Gameboy (bar an SP; just can't really justify it right now, as the GBA is mainly used in linkup for Animal Crossing these days...), a Megadrive, the N64, a PS1, a Saturn, a Dreamcast, a PS2, a Cube and an Xbox. My favourite games stay the same: Mega Bomberman, NiGHTS, Sega Rally 2, Power Stone 1 and 2, Shenmue and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. If i had to make it a top 10, i'd add Gran Turismo 2 and both Halo games.

Frankly, this generation has been pretty poor for lasting memories; no RPG has equalled Zelda in my memory (Tales of Symphonia is fantastic, however), no adventure game topped Shenmue (okay, maybe the sequel, but only as an equal), and no multiplayer as fun as Bomberman (the day any party game can equal the chaos that is Hi-10 Bomberman on the Saturn i'll keel over) or Power Stone. As for racing, well... i'll wait and see how Forza is. The massive delays (and the fact i no longer own the PS2...) put me off GT4 ages ago. Heck, the only games i can think of when i think of this generation are the Halo games and the GTA games, and the latter i got bored of.

To sum up: the same happened to DC, and many a person i know was still trying to get one as soon ago as last month. Just because shops pull support doesn't mean a console is over- it is merely more treasured.

Personally.. I couldnt care less if people bought a cube or not.

If people want to play crappy movie tie ins and endless fps/racing games on other systems.. as far as im concerned - let them.

I'll be happily playing pikmin 2, paper mario, tales of symphonia, and those 3 alone will keep me happy until resi evil 4, etc etc...

And if i can then pick up some older games for 6 quid (as people arent buying them.. then great!).

Its like music.. if people want to buy s**te like westlife, let them.. I'll just sit here listening to good music.. It doesnt bother me that the mainstream public are gormless morons with no taste..

And it doesnt bother me if they'd rather play generic s**te rather than good games either..

If i was a shareholder i'd be pissed off.. but only at nintendos refusal to market things over here...

I think you are kinda missing the point here.

As fewer and fewer companies control all music, and all games, there will come a time when the ONLY thing you can buy is movie tie-ins, and WestLife.

Currently tastes other then the mainstream are catered for by smaller companies who can make a profit from a niche audience. As the big companies buy, take over or crush all these small companies... you either better develop some mainstream tastes, or be prepared for a boring time... because your good taste isnt going to protect you from the corporations.

Oh come on, you really think the music industry will homogenise music into boy-bands, cheesy Ibiza house, R&B etc.??? If anything the music industry has more variety now than ever. Sure, all you see on MTV, CD:UK etc is the generic b******s, but there are so many independent labels about. I like most music genres, but electronic is my favourite. The scene/press has to keep coming up with new genres, because music is constantly evolving.

Video-games are a very different beast to music. As the hardware becomes more powerful, so the games become bigger, better looking, and the dev cycle is generally longer. And with a longer dev cycle, comes a bigger budget. And with a bigger budget you're dependant on the moneymen, who are petrified of loosing money. Sure, they'd love to reap the rewards if one of their dev co's produces the next phenomenon (like Pokemon, StreetFighter, GTA etc.), but that requires a risk, and they see risk as being 90% failure 10% success (x% of statistics are made up), and they don't like the odds.

The problem is, we always want to play the flashiest games available, and that's what drives Ninty, Sony et all to produce newer, more powerful machines.

Musicians can do their thang with limited technology and money. Game developers can't.

I think it already is.



I'm guessing that you haven't been around for ever. There is not demonstrably more variety now than ever, and on major labels, there is less. And there are FAR fewer major labels.

There are not more indie labels now than ever, either. You ought to have been around in 1980.



But musicians can't get their music PUBLICISED without big money. And the people with the money make MOST money from shifting 13,000,000 Beyonce albums, not from promoting the hell out of a band who will only ever sell 100,000.

And (and this is the key point) as the method of distribution moves from "open" channels to closed channels like the Xbox media hub, we'll see corporations having increasing control of what gets distributed...

You fail to see the point. If the games you like stop making money, people won't continue making them. That's why developers are deserting the Gamecube. This is why Madden, which sells ridiculous amounts every year, has had a commercial lifespan of over a decade. It's why Shenmue, which is generally noted as a commercial letdown, is still stuck at 2 and going nowhere fast. The quality doesn't matter.

What gets me is that you're okay with Paper Mario 2 on GC (which is a sequel to a spinoff), but seem to value originality and new ideas highly. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people think it's a fantastic game (I've not played it myself, so I can't comment), but just because it doesn't rely on tedious realism, doesn't mean it's any fresher a concept.

Moreover, this "crappy movie tie ins and endless fps/racing games on other systems" comment seems like an awful generalisation. Especially when a quick glance at the GC charts reveals:

#1: Need for Speed Underground 2 (racing)
#2: Metroid Prime 2 (it's first-person, and you shoot)
#3: The Incredibles (movie tie-in)
#5: Lord of the Rings: The Third Age (movie tie-in)
#7: Goldeneye: Rogue Agent (obvious)
#9: Spider-Man 2 (hello movie tie-in)

So, six of the top ten Gamecube games (and crucially, all of the top 3) fall into the categories which you seemingly don't think hold a major place on the GC. Granted, the Playstation 2 and Xbox charts are really no more inventive, but crucially they're certainly no less.

Disclaimer: I'm a current owner of Gamecube, Playstation 2 and Xbox. I have 23 games for my Gamecube, 14 for my PS2 and 13 for my Xbox. Thank you for not condemning me as Gamecube-hating scum.

Oooo you little nit-picker :-)



Funny. I seem to get my hands on good music quite easily, and I can't see it changing.



Ok, bad choice of word with "ever".



Don't know about historical music industry economics, but I'd guess todays big corp's are, well, bigger than before. But there is a healthy middle-tier (Skint, Warp).

However, I stand by my point in regards to variety(which maybe I didnt make too well, and will now make a hash of again) and that is: through time, music has expanded its variety in its evolution. Throughout the decades, new sounds have emerged. Okay here's a bodged attempt to explain my point: In the 50's we had Rock 'n' Roll. In the 60's we Rock 'n Roll and Psychedelic Rock. In the 70's we had Rock 'n Roll, Psychedelic Rock and Glam Rock. In the 80's we had Rock n Roll, Psychedelic Rock, Glam Rock and Synth-Pop. In the 90's we had Rock 'n Roll, Psychedelic Rock, Glam Rock, Synth-Pop and Grunge etc.

Simply put, if youd played Aphex Twin to anybody in the 50's, you'd freak them out. Play anything from the 50's to a kid today, and they'd have heard it all before.

There is more musical variety today, and I can't see how can say otherwise. You just might not find it on Radio 1 (mainly).



Well I was, but my music collection at this point was limited (my mum was always forcing her tastes on me. Humpty Dumpty sucked!)



Not all musicians want to end up on TOTP. Sure they want to have a career, but you don't have to suck EMI's corporate cock to live confortably. If you have musical talent (obviously within the bounds of a niche taste) you'll find someone who'll take you one. Small label bosses, living in the real world, would be happy to sell 100,000 records. In regards to the big labels only wanting to sign artists who'll get them minted, well that's not a surprise. But every music buyer knows what they like, and if it's Beyonce then, well, it's most likely they're tone deaf/ missing a soul/ stupid.



Ah a gaming point :-) I agree, and like I said in my last post: If games are expensive to produce, the moneymen are in control.

My point being.. is that i dont care if people buy it or not.. worse case scenario.. nintendo stop making consoles and go software only.. why does that matter jot to me? I'll just get the other machine, and carry on playing great games.



Again.. as I said.. I dont care if other people want to play crap.. i'm happy being selective and playing good games.. What other people do is their business.

I just dont get fanboys who go on saying "boohoo - gcube hasnt sold as many as ps2" or "ner ner ner ner, my machine has sold more than yours!".. who bloody cares?

I have a games console to play games... I dont care about anything else.. and neither should you..

As for yer paper mario 2 comment.. there is a distinct difference between a sequel which is a marked improvement over the original.. and mindless "more of the same crap" such as halo 2 or metroid 2 (both of which i consider to be tosh - but then i've been spoiled by hl2).

.. and i know hl2 is a sequel.. but look at the improvements they made over the original...

Obviously HL2 is a massive improvement over HL, there's 6 years between them. But do you honestly believe PM2 has more major and worthwile features than it's prequel compared to Halo 2 and it's prequel? Two words: Xbox Live.

It's definately a massive improvement in terms of graphics, physics, voice acting and animation, but I'm not so sure it's better in the storyboard/narrative.

I've been playing into the small hours over the last week or so, having finally got the game at home.

It's a joy to behold in the visual, aural and gameplay departments, but the story just doesn't seem to pull me in as it did with HL1. And many times I get this feeling I'm being steamrollered through a series of events that I'd really like to spend a bit more time investigating. Maybe I've just lost the breadcrumb trail...

Point missed entirely. Your original comment was "If people want to play crappy movie tie ins and endless fps/racing games on other systems.. as far as im concerned - let them." The "other systems" somehow implies that Gamecube owners don't buy that stuff and that other console owners do, which is clearly not the case. It could even be construed as a general point against not just those that buy the games, but the software lineups of the systems.


Whilst the Gamecube hasn't performed as poorly as other notable systems, the fact remains that retailers are dropping the console. When that happens, it becomes harder to purchase the games, they sell less, and in the end Nintendo may just decide it's not worth the bother localising certain titles. It accelerates the process of the end of software development for a system. As in, no more games to play on your games console. It's worth taking notice of these things.


So the additions of multiplayer (Metroid) and online (Halo) modes in addition to creating a new set of stages that match up to the originals for the single-player mode is mindless?

Even though this discussion strayed from games to music and back it's been fun all the same. Keep it going troops.

I believe that all GC owners won't be that fussed because of Action Replay and Freeloader letting you continue your gaming after official death. One thing that concerns me now that Argos and Woolworths have joined Dixons by bailing on GC is that we might be forced to important the last few killer GC titles namely Zelda (if it gets to GC) and RE4. Has to be said the acceptance of Freeloader etc by Nintendo could still see games being purchased even if they are imports. For any console in GC position this is a godsend to gamers. Will I have to import RE4 early though, because DS and PSP are also due out in March? Will RE4 get noticed or delay til April?

((BY WAY SPONG, WHERE IS THE RE4 REVIEW?))

Guess at this stage of a consoles life you'll find out how much of a gamer you are, depending on if you sell off your GC and games or not (everyone has their reasons to sell obviously). By the end of this year, you'll see enough ads in you local paper, with people offloading their kit. Problem here though is that when everyone does this, you get less money for your stuff and you feel cheated (anyone who's every traded in anything to Game/EB will know the feeling). More the fool you'll be if you do this, but good luck on getting a good deal, you'll need it. I'll quite gladly pick up your good games for nothing.

On the subject of big mega corps sucking the life out of the industry I believe that it's true that this happening. Yes, budgets are needed for bigger games etc but where will this end? Will there be bust after the boom we've had for so long? Will suits drown us in dross games and themselves in their own greed? The only real saving grace to all this tsunami of dross is the little island of japan. It's really there that games are made for the love of games and not so much the quest for mountains of cash. I know that there are other talented small devs out there (especially in europe), but as soon as most of them get a hit they are assimilated by the greedy Borg like tentacles of EA etc. EA don't seem to understand games like Beyond Good and Evil, PoP: TWW are born out of risk and experimenting not flow charts etc (that's right Ubisoft fight them all the way).

With the current situation in the music industry about file sharing and the net, power and creativity is being put back into the hands of the people (so things have kind of gone full circle, despite piracy etc). This has the mega corps in a panic because they want to control us and what we consume. The net is like a get out of jail card for the creative people out there. I feel if a dot com style bust ever comes to the games industry, smaller devs and home brew game creation may return once more and online distribution may become more common place (or maybe not, who knows).

Our circle of gaming life is yet to be completed but I wonder when that will happen and who (Sony,MS etc) will be there to witness it.

Now, this reminds me. I need to import Chaos Field for my Dreamcast, it's been out almost a month now. GC version is released in February, too.


This is why we should all support developers of fantastic free PC games (and for those of you new to the concept, search out ABA Games and download Torus Trooper, Parsec47 or rRootage). The other thing we should do is heavily support stuff like Alien Hominid. EA may be able to work it's influences into Burnout and Command & Conquer, but can you see AH fitting in with the corporate image?


Beyond Good and Evil, sure. PoP? The whole image darkening was a public image tactic, so it depends on how you look at it... As it goes, I bought it the other day, heh. I've not played it beyond a quick test to see that it works, resolving to steal the PS2 back and finish Sands of Time first.


See point above about free PC games and independent efforts, but while you're at it try Every Extend, Radio Zonde and Warning Forever. Also, on the independent side of things, try out Space Tripper and Uplink (and keep a close eye on Darwinia).


Indeed, it's a relatively young industry. Suits can crow all they like about having higher revenues than Hollywood, but that's because we pay higher prices for the product. Gaming can become more mass-market if that's what the publishers want. There's a pretty interesting article on that at World of Stuart.