Revolution Claims Spur GameCube 2 Backlash – Full Report
‘Misguided’ report damages Nintendo drive?
A report hitting IGN in the past few days has seen a backlash against Nintendo’s upcoming home console, codenamed Revolution, with claims touting the device as little more than GameCube 2.
The piece claims that development studios have warned that the Revolution will deliver 128MB RAM, perhaps even less. Bear in mind the Xbox 360 packs 512MB. This essentially rules out hopes of Nintendo reversing its stance on offering high-definition TV support, something of a bone of contention all of a sudden. Well, since Microsoft made it an integral element of its 360 console and subsequent marketing anyway…
“There is more RAM that you can use, but Nintendo is using that for general memory, like game saves and all sorts of other things. You could use it, but you can't rely on it,” said a developer in the IGN piece. We have no idea what that could mean…
A follow-up report claims that the Revolution will take the GameCube’s 24MB 1T-SRAM and 16MB D-RAM (40MB) and add 64MBs of 1T-SRAM, totalling 105MB core RAM. This does not include any additional grunt to be added by the Hollywood GPU, though again, rumour claims this will only add 3MB.
The report also claims the IBM-developed Broadway CPU is based on the GameCube’s Gekko processor - another reason fans of Sony and Microsoft’s consoles have seized on this opportunity to dub Revolution little more than GameCube 2 with some relish. It is rumoured that the Hollywood GPU is again a revision of existing GameCube hardware, namely the Flipper by ATi. “Basically, take a GameCube, double the clock rate of the CPU and GPU and you're done, says one source,” another claiming that, “The CPU is the same as Gekko with one and a half to two times the performance and improved caching. Our guys experimented with it and think they'll be able to get about twice the performance as GameCube”.
And now for some good news. Speculation puts the Revolution disc's storage at 4.7GB of data on a single layer or 8.5GB when double-layered on a single-side, a massive leap from the GameCube’s 1.5GB max. The suggested price is also something of a gem. We are told to expect between $99 and $149 at launch, astonishingly cheap and surely a must-buy price-point for any gamer.
The reports emerging at this stage have been dubbed ‘misguided’ by some sources we spoke to with bits and pieces of information cobbled together, and failed to produce a cohesive whole. Preliminary development units in circulation right now are PC-based and are backed by only the slightest briefing from Nintendo, much of which centered around the concepts underpinning the controller, with very little talk of the oft-mooted horsepower. Of course, it’s for this reason developers are left guessing at what to expect, though further updates from both IBM and ATi are expected to be released via Nintendo in the coming weeks. Following these updates, revised development kit guidelines will hit, followed in early February (we hear) by final SDKs.
The piece claims that development studios have warned that the Revolution will deliver 128MB RAM, perhaps even less. Bear in mind the Xbox 360 packs 512MB. This essentially rules out hopes of Nintendo reversing its stance on offering high-definition TV support, something of a bone of contention all of a sudden. Well, since Microsoft made it an integral element of its 360 console and subsequent marketing anyway…
“There is more RAM that you can use, but Nintendo is using that for general memory, like game saves and all sorts of other things. You could use it, but you can't rely on it,” said a developer in the IGN piece. We have no idea what that could mean…
A follow-up report claims that the Revolution will take the GameCube’s 24MB 1T-SRAM and 16MB D-RAM (40MB) and add 64MBs of 1T-SRAM, totalling 105MB core RAM. This does not include any additional grunt to be added by the Hollywood GPU, though again, rumour claims this will only add 3MB.
The report also claims the IBM-developed Broadway CPU is based on the GameCube’s Gekko processor - another reason fans of Sony and Microsoft’s consoles have seized on this opportunity to dub Revolution little more than GameCube 2 with some relish. It is rumoured that the Hollywood GPU is again a revision of existing GameCube hardware, namely the Flipper by ATi. “Basically, take a GameCube, double the clock rate of the CPU and GPU and you're done, says one source,” another claiming that, “The CPU is the same as Gekko with one and a half to two times the performance and improved caching. Our guys experimented with it and think they'll be able to get about twice the performance as GameCube”.
And now for some good news. Speculation puts the Revolution disc's storage at 4.7GB of data on a single layer or 8.5GB when double-layered on a single-side, a massive leap from the GameCube’s 1.5GB max. The suggested price is also something of a gem. We are told to expect between $99 and $149 at launch, astonishingly cheap and surely a must-buy price-point for any gamer.
The reports emerging at this stage have been dubbed ‘misguided’ by some sources we spoke to with bits and pieces of information cobbled together, and failed to produce a cohesive whole. Preliminary development units in circulation right now are PC-based and are backed by only the slightest briefing from Nintendo, much of which centered around the concepts underpinning the controller, with very little talk of the oft-mooted horsepower. Of course, it’s for this reason developers are left guessing at what to expect, though further updates from both IBM and ATi are expected to be released via Nintendo in the coming weeks. Following these updates, revised development kit guidelines will hit, followed in early February (we hear) by final SDKs.
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Showing the 20 most recent comments. Read all 23.
headcasephil 8 Dec 2005 13:12
4/23
the thing that pepole foget about nintendo is that
it is the underdog
but with beeing the underdog thay allways do something specal wat i meen about this is
the nes was the fist console to have a controlpad
the snes was the fist to have L and R
the n64 was the fist to have analoge stick
and the GC discks do not brake
and the revo has the new pad
every uther console coppy nintendo but no one ever
prases them
it is the underdog
but with beeing the underdog thay allways do something specal wat i meen about this is
the nes was the fist console to have a controlpad
the snes was the fist to have L and R
the n64 was the fist to have analoge stick
and the GC discks do not brake
and the revo has the new pad
every uther console coppy nintendo but no one ever
prases them
Jas 8 Dec 2005 13:45
5/23
I hope 90% of developers don't develop for the Rev, the last thing Nintendo need for such an innovative console are lazy EA style ports of crappy Sports games and James Bond games.
Have we not learned from our history, power is useless wiythout innovative creative games.
Gamecube 2 is the highest accolade IGN could have bestowed on the Rev, I know that all may favourite gaming experiences over the last couple of years have been on the Gamecube, Metroid Prime, Resident evil 4, Wind Waker.
Is there not enough room in the market for true gamers to enjoy small, risky, brave projects that attempt to offer something new. I depair with this industry sometimes.
Have we not learned from our history, power is useless wiythout innovative creative games.
Gamecube 2 is the highest accolade IGN could have bestowed on the Rev, I know that all may favourite gaming experiences over the last couple of years have been on the Gamecube, Metroid Prime, Resident evil 4, Wind Waker.
Is there not enough room in the market for true gamers to enjoy small, risky, brave projects that attempt to offer something new. I depair with this industry sometimes.
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majin dboy 8 Dec 2005 14:12
6/23
just look at the graphics in resi4 and zelda.anything that will look twice as good, even 1.5x as good will look class.
as i sayed before, i was playin a 360 the other day,graphics are nice but it doesnt make me want to spend £300+ on a new console and game.
I am looking for something new in the next gen, and hopefully i will find that in the revo.
as i sayed before, i was playin a 360 the other day,graphics are nice but it doesnt make me want to spend £300+ on a new console and game.
I am looking for something new in the next gen, and hopefully i will find that in the revo.
Coxy 8 Dec 2005 14:40
7/23
Who cares if the Revolution is only a tiny bit more powerful than the Gamecube? Nintendo obviously know what they are doing.
Have we not learned from our history, power is useless wiythout innovative creative games.
Is there not enough room in the market for true gamers to enjoy small, risky, brave projects that attempt to offer something new. I depair with this industry sometimes.
Couldn't agree more, which makes the next-gen. situation rather desperate for Sony who seem to be leaving games in the hands of developers rather than come up with something innovative them selves.
But credit where credit is due, at least they have attempted to be innovative in this generation (i.e. Eyetoy and Buzz.)
Jas wrote:
Have we not learned from our history, power is useless wiythout innovative creative games.
Is there not enough room in the market for true gamers to enjoy small, risky, brave projects that attempt to offer something new. I depair with this industry sometimes.
Couldn't agree more, which makes the next-gen. situation rather desperate for Sony who seem to be leaving games in the hands of developers rather than come up with something innovative them selves.
But credit where credit is due, at least they have attempted to be innovative in this generation (i.e. Eyetoy and Buzz.)
jadnice 8 Dec 2005 15:05
8/23
The true magic is not in the CPU or GPU ( which happens to be great). The combination is where the real magic is.
Here are the specs on the GPU as reported by the same group who gave IGN and Revogaming the "Broadway" info. It now looks like the Revo will have a total of 256mb which is great news since it doesn't need 512mb that required for HD.
- "Hollywood" is based on ATi's RV530 GPU
- The GPU has been optimised significantly (more on that below)
- The graphics are not as bad as IGN might make them sound
- The Revolution's RAM, whilst being around 128MB, is highly optimised
Here are the specs for the RV530, thanks to Anandtech:
RV530
600MHz Core Clock
1400MHz Memory Clock
512MB Maximum Memory for "XT"
256MB Maximum Memory for "Pro"
128-bit Memory
12 Pipelines
Maximum 16x32MB 1.4ns GDDR3
Here are the specs on the GPU as reported by the same group who gave IGN and Revogaming the "Broadway" info. It now looks like the Revo will have a total of 256mb which is great news since it doesn't need 512mb that required for HD.
- "Hollywood" is based on ATi's RV530 GPU
- The GPU has been optimised significantly (more on that below)
- The graphics are not as bad as IGN might make them sound
- The Revolution's RAM, whilst being around 128MB, is highly optimised
Here are the specs for the RV530, thanks to Anandtech:
RV530
600MHz Core Clock
1400MHz Memory Clock
512MB Maximum Memory for "XT"
256MB Maximum Memory for "Pro"
128-bit Memory
12 Pipelines
Maximum 16x32MB 1.4ns GDDR3
ann0uk 8 Dec 2005 15:41
9/23
Revolution will not have the power of the competition, I can accept that, and so it will be cheaper than the others.
It will have twice the power of the Gamecube, so the graphics will be an improvement.
Also the fact that Nintendo has chosen DVD media this time means that there will be more space for developers to fill.
I dont care if it isnt as powerful as the PS3 or Xbox 360, all that matters is that people like me will be investing in one, and we will not be dissapointed.
It will have twice the power of the Gamecube, so the graphics will be an improvement.
Also the fact that Nintendo has chosen DVD media this time means that there will be more space for developers to fill.
I dont care if it isnt as powerful as the PS3 or Xbox 360, all that matters is that people like me will be investing in one, and we will not be dissapointed.
ozfunghi 8 Dec 2005 16:37
10/23
jadnice wrote:
The true magic is not in the CPU or GPU ( which happens to be great). The combination is where the real magic is.
Here are the specs on the GPU as reported by the same group who gave IGN and Revogaming the "Broadway" info. It now looks like the Revo will have a total of 256mb which is great news since it doesn't need 512mb that required for HD.
- "Hollywood" is based on ATi's RV530 GPU
- The GPU has been optimised significantly (more on that below)
- The graphics are not as bad as IGN might make them sound
- The Revolution's RAM, whilst being around 128MB, is highly optimised
Here are the specs for the RV530, thanks to Anandtech:
RV530
600MHz Core Clock
1400MHz Memory Clock
512MB Maximum Memory for "XT"
256MB Maximum Memory for "Pro"
128-bit Memory
12 Pipelines
Maximum 16x32MB 1.4ns GDDR3
Here are the specs on the GPU as reported by the same group who gave IGN and Revogaming the "Broadway" info. It now looks like the Revo will have a total of 256mb which is great news since it doesn't need 512mb that required for HD.
- "Hollywood" is based on ATi's RV530 GPU
- The GPU has been optimised significantly (more on that below)
- The graphics are not as bad as IGN might make them sound
- The Revolution's RAM, whilst being around 128MB, is highly optimised
Here are the specs for the RV530, thanks to Anandtech:
RV530
600MHz Core Clock
1400MHz Memory Clock
512MB Maximum Memory for "XT"
256MB Maximum Memory for "Pro"
128-bit Memory
12 Pipelines
Maximum 16x32MB 1.4ns GDDR3
do we have any indication you're not pulling this out of your ass? As far as I know no info what so ever has been released, other than IGN's speculations. Who says Rev will use the RV530? Who says it'll have 256 MB ram?
Don't get me wrong, it would be nice, but i'd like some proof of this.
way 8 Dec 2005 16:41
11/23
Yes it could be just alpha development kits, but somethings fishy. With a spec like this, how come they didn't release this last year. Wasn't the gamecube replacement originally supposed to be released in something like 2005/2004?
The price would certainly be attractive for the first couple of years, until the xbox360 and PS3 could come down enough and outstrip it in game quality.
But is this the spec on the next gameboy said to be based on the Gamecube ;) Certainly looks like an PSP beater. Putting development kits like this on the market would certainly establish a number of preliminary software titles secretly for the new Gameboy and Gamecube compatible Revolution with some enhancement (which last time was looking more like 1.8Ghz).
The price would certainly be attractive for the first couple of years, until the xbox360 and PS3 could come down enough and outstrip it in game quality.
But is this the spec on the next gameboy said to be based on the Gamecube ;) Certainly looks like an PSP beater. Putting development kits like this on the market would certainly establish a number of preliminary software titles secretly for the new Gameboy and Gamecube compatible Revolution with some enhancement (which last time was looking more like 1.8Ghz).
OptimusP 8 Dec 2005 16:54
12/23
My geuss is (GPU-wise) Nintendo is having Ati cooking up something very very special.
Not a polygon pushing monster but something that is designed to give full creative freedom graphic wise. A GPU that's actually designed around Nintendo's cel-shading technique (which is polygon-less!!) used with the Wind Waker.
Imagine games looking like those FMV's of Fire Emblem on the GC, Hell Yeah! Create a funky controller that has everyone in a uproar and then create a GPU that has all those creative funky features... childhood reliving guaranteed!
I'm probably having my hopes up right about now. Creative graphic styles beat that realistic crap their shoveling up like cowshit anytime of the day in my book though.
Not a polygon pushing monster but something that is designed to give full creative freedom graphic wise. A GPU that's actually designed around Nintendo's cel-shading technique (which is polygon-less!!) used with the Wind Waker.
Imagine games looking like those FMV's of Fire Emblem on the GC, Hell Yeah! Create a funky controller that has everyone in a uproar and then create a GPU that has all those creative funky features... childhood reliving guaranteed!
I'm probably having my hopes up right about now. Creative graphic styles beat that realistic crap their shoveling up like cowshit anytime of the day in my book though.
ozfunghi 8 Dec 2005 17:30
13/23
OptimusP wrote:
...designed around Nintendo's cel-shading technique (which is polygon-less!!) used with the Wind Waker...
cel-shading is a rendering technique, not a modeling technique... what do you mean? You still need 3D models (hence polygons) for cel-shading. And by the way, Nintendo didn't invent cel-shading if that's what you mean.
jadnice 8 Dec 2005 17:48
14/23
http://revogaming.net/html/modules/news/index.php
is your source site and the info came from the same in side group that told ign about the cpu (broadway)
is your source site and the info came from the same in side group that told ign about the cpu (broadway)
Ditto 8 Dec 2005 19:08
15/23
Those graphics specs are suspect.
Assuming the Revo has a max of 256MB of main RAM, you wouldn't then go and put 256MB of graphics memory. You'd save money and put 128MB graphics and include a faster processor or more main RAM.
This graphics chip is also high-spec for something that's due to be in a £90 to £150 console, assuming Nintendo wants to make a profit rather than a loss.
Assuming the Revo has a max of 256MB of main RAM, you wouldn't then go and put 256MB of graphics memory. You'd save money and put 128MB graphics and include a faster processor or more main RAM.
This graphics chip is also high-spec for something that's due to be in a £90 to £150 console, assuming Nintendo wants to make a profit rather than a loss.
ozfunghi 8 Dec 2005 19:18
16/23
So what specs did they give concerning the cpu? Can't remember seeing any confirmed info about the cpu?? Just out of curiosity. Or are we talking about the "name"? Hmmm. I Hope you're right but i'll just pretend i didn't see this. If it turns out to be true, i'll be pleasantly surprised though. I'm not gonna get hyped up and end up disappointed.
OptimusP 8 Dec 2005 19:46
17/23
I know Nintendo didn't invented cel-shading, i'm not going to deny the brilliance that is Jet Set Radio.
Technical speaking Wind Waker doesn't use cel-shading (no one noticed how the Wind Waker as that cleaner look then all those other cel-shaded games?) it uses a new technique that allows the unique cel-shading-alike look of the game and does not use polygons in any way.
Problem is i don't kow the technical details about Wind Waker's technique, it's somewhere kept inside Nintendo's offices... try getting something out of there!
Technical speaking Wind Waker doesn't use cel-shading (no one noticed how the Wind Waker as that cleaner look then all those other cel-shaded games?) it uses a new technique that allows the unique cel-shading-alike look of the game and does not use polygons in any way.
Problem is i don't kow the technical details about Wind Waker's technique, it's somewhere kept inside Nintendo's offices... try getting something out of there!
ozfunghi 8 Dec 2005 21:13
18/23
Well, I'll eat my shorts if i'm wrong.
Don't get me wrong it'd be cool if i were wrong, but this is the first thing i've ever heard about WW not using poly's. And i'm pretty sure GCn doesn't support NURBS if that's what you mean.
Don't get me wrong it'd be cool if i were wrong, but this is the first thing i've ever heard about WW not using poly's. And i'm pretty sure GCn doesn't support NURBS if that's what you mean.
Biggie 8 Dec 2005 22:18
19/23
The thing I find funny about this item is that all 3 next gen CPUs are using a descendent of the IBM PPE core that appeared in the Cube. Furthermore the Cube's GPU was made by the excellent Art-x team, bought by ATI, which made all of ATI's current GPU including the one in the 360. And this same team is making the Rev's GPU I’m sure it will be something special. Will the Rev be as powerful as the 360 or PS3 no! But I think IGN is just blowing hot wind... with this non info. What troubles me more is that developers don't have final kits and were 7 months out from hardware release.
Joji 8 Dec 2005 22:26
20/23
I'm in line with Adam's first post on this one. Right now I couldn't really give a flying f**k what s inside the Rev tech wise. If it's even slightly better than my GC I'll be happy since my GC graphics are already good enough for me right now. And yes I too have seen the all powerful box of tricks that is the 360. Very nice but little that makes me want it yet.
All this clutching straws about nothing we can confirm or deny. I'm not listening to anything until it comes from the horses mouth at NoJ. I don't care who IGN have got their info from. When the time is write and we need to know, Nintendo will clue us in accordingly.
I'd also prefer to know about games instead of specs.
All this clutching straws about nothing we can confirm or deny. I'm not listening to anything until it comes from the horses mouth at NoJ. I don't care who IGN have got their info from. When the time is write and we need to know, Nintendo will clue us in accordingly.
I'd also prefer to know about games instead of specs.
Joji 8 Dec 2005 22:38
21/23
I dunno Big Papa, I think that the dev kits are already out there, but perhaps developers have had to sign a gag order so they won't talk to the press about what it can do. Remember that some folk like Peter Molyneux etc have seen more of Rev behind closed doors than we have so they know what to expect.
Alternatively developers can still us GC tech and get moving on the potential Rev game development in order to have something to show off before release and perhaps at E3 too (remember when everyone thought Donkey Kong Country on SNES was next gen and it wasn't, same could happen here at E3). I'm also sure they'll be GC games that might be moved to Rev from some developers to give them more time and us more gaming options. GC games won't disappear over night either, GC will become a PSone style budget option for Nintendo.
Alternatively developers can still us GC tech and get moving on the potential Rev game development in order to have something to show off before release and perhaps at E3 too (remember when everyone thought Donkey Kong Country on SNES was next gen and it wasn't, same could happen here at E3). I'm also sure they'll be GC games that might be moved to Rev from some developers to give them more time and us more gaming options. GC games won't disappear over night either, GC will become a PSone style budget option for Nintendo.
crs117 9 Dec 2005 01:58
22/23
OptimusP wrote:
Technical speaking Wind Waker doesn't use cel-shading (no one noticed how the Wind Waker as that cleaner look then all those other cel-shaded games?) it uses a new technique that allows the unique cel-shading-alike look of the game and does not use polygons in any way.
Problem is i don't kow the technical details about Wind Waker's technique, it's somewhere kept inside Nintendo's offices... try getting something out of there!
Problem is i don't kow the technical details about Wind Waker's technique, it's somewhere kept inside Nintendo's offices... try getting something out of there!
I hate to inform you but you are wrong. The graphics processor is capable of rendering either 2d images or 3d polygon based games...nothing else. WW used a very well crafted Cell Shading filter that Nintendo crafted to exquisite detail, but its cell shading non-the less. I would be more then happy to go into detail about how cell shading works (even in WW) but i do not feel as though it would serve this post well.
As far as the rev's tech specs. Knowing nintendo they are more about gaming substance than flashy graphics. Why not make devs focus thier initial efforts with dev kits around the controller then graphics. I mean what is more important to nintendo here flashy graphics for next gen or more involved gameplay. Its brilliant, it will weed out the developers that care more about pretty pixels but cater to developers that see the chance to really create something unique. Have them start creating the game on early test hardware and then suprise them when the final hardware kits come out.
This makes perfect sense on two fronts because i am sure that no aspect of the control mechanics will be changed in the final release, but it is obvious that the main hardware will be different. So this gives oppertunities for the devs to start creating around the controller and as they get final kits they will be able to focus on the graphical aspects to polish up what should already be an engaging game.
I am not expecting the rev to be as powerful as ps3 or x360 but i seriously doubt the "double the game cube and there is the rev" is the final reality of the rev. I mean its hard to simply say double when a lot of technology (especially in graphics) has changed and cant be quantified with a double statement.
At least these are my thoughts.
Christian
crs117 9 Dec 2005 03:40
23/23
Before anybody comes in and tries to correct this statement
"The graphics processor is capable of rendering either 2d images or 3d polygon based games...nothing else."
Let me clarify. I mean it is fully capable of rendering 2d images completely in 2d or 3d space or polygons in 3d space. Any texture applied to a polygon is essentially a 2d image in 3d space.
Again just for clarification.
Christian
"The graphics processor is capable of rendering either 2d images or 3d polygon based games...nothing else."
Let me clarify. I mean it is fully capable of rendering 2d images completely in 2d or 3d space or polygons in 3d space. Any texture applied to a polygon is essentially a 2d image in 3d space.
Again just for clarification.
Christian