Redesigned Nintendo DS ‘months away…’

Huh?

You've totally missed my point!

My point is that while the console may be innovative Nintendo themselves will probably not produce the innvoative software to back it up.



I don't care about how many 3rd parties developers. I'm talking about high-quality titles from Nintendo at the moment. And a lack of high-quality games from 3rd parties too.

I liked very few N64 games, but that's for another argument.



LOL!

Why be innvovative when you could produce the same old trash?



Err, yes. "The product has reached the end of its life" - when PS2 and Xbox are still doing quite well.



At the moment. And this is just Japan.



I agree, however if they continue the way they are at the moment they'll be consigned to history.



I'm still giving Fire Emblem a chance. Echoes 2, Warioworld, Four Swords and a lot of the Mario spin-offs are examples of disappointing games.

At a point i can understand Adam M concerns... he gives a good example of how you can see Nintendo in a bad daylight. That's needed sometimes to break illusions which some fanboys/hardcore idiots think of to roll them self for safety.

I'm a guy with a Nintendo-heart to clear things out but i'm also very critical. I don't like those huge bucketloads of spinn-offs that Nintendo sometimes shovels out... or better...let's others shovel out for them. 90% of those mario spinn-offs are not made by Nintendo but made by their permission by other teams. By it Namco (Mario Baseball), Hudson (Mario Party), Camelot (Mario Tennis and Golf) and recently Mario Football (that team that also made Soccer slam, forgot the name).

Ripp-offs they may be, caling them bad is a bit far off, Nintendo's eye of quality is around the corner everytime. All of those games are considered very fun and perfect for multiplayer sessions and that's how you should perceive these games. Nintendo is also a company and companies first objective are in any case making a anual profit. Every company makes itself guilty of moneymaking tactics involving spin-offs and rip-offs, that capitalisme for ya. I find it very commendable that Nintendo always forces those companies that makes their spinn-offs to put a good dose of fun in them combined with good controls and so forth... i don't think there's a gamecompany that tries to keep a certain level of quality in their IP's as Nintendo does.

Nonetheless yes Nintendo makes themselves quilty of over-exposing their IP's sometimes a bit too much and of rip-off manuevers to reek in some more cash. At least they keep a eye that the quality is of a above-average level.

Personally calling the Twilight Princess just a weak sequel with a gimmick wolfthingiy is a bit overreacting on your part. For me the Twlight Princess will become a masterpiece and wil show why Nintendo is still the best gamedeveloper on the planet. Twilight princess combines so many artstyles (from romantic to even impressionistic in the normal world to surrealistic and symbolic in the twilight world) and has so many psylogical layers to interpertate my head almost explodes.
There isn't an Gameseries alive that at one side stays true to its fundaments on one side and tries to reinvents itself and such innovates 3rd person gaming as a whole on the other side.

As a pessimist you could say this zelda will just deliver more of the same, he is right. Pushing the limit, upping the level by innovation has become a fundamentof in every zelda that it is indeed a integral part of every zelda game, even Four Swords (new fresh concept, execution could have been quite bit better though).

Why is Nintendogs a hit? puppysimulators existed before it in numerous forms... why does Nintendogs sells millions where others failed (after the tamagotchi rage i mean). Simple because Nintendo pushed the envelope so hard, put the standard so high quality wise it had to become a hit. Never have puppies act, moved and looked so adorable and real. Never have you been able to interact with those puppies like you can do with Nintendogs.

Some marketingexperts call it a genious product of how that's perfect for parents to buy for their kids (if you can take care of this little fellow we'll discuss the buying a dog thing, ok?) and the parents enjoying playing itself.

It's this type of game that proves the trust Nintendo can break open the gamemarket, third parties can see that too. It is a risk nonetheless, but Nintendo is taking it and that takes balls and confidence in its own capabilities. If anyone can prove the Revolution will be a revolution it's Nintendo, but yes there are a lot of teams out there who can do the same,maybe better then Nintendo themselves and i surely hope they're out there.

The PSP beating the DS...you're not following the sales numbers are you... it's not only in Japan (where the advantage is almost 2 to 1 for the DS)
It's also in the US and Europe. Last NPD numbers show that in the week that GTA lanched for the PSP the PSP sales did not went up, DS outsold the PSP, PSP sales are actualy dropping in the US now even with GTA out , in Europe UK sales have shown that DS is again outselling PSP by good margins.

NPD numbers for the next months for the PSP will not be avaible since Sony is withholding them.

Where does the idea for the PSP outselling the DS come from? Sony's hype machine (and Nintendo's lack of one) and sony fanboys screaming the loudests my geusses are.
I don't see it improving for the PSP anytime soon, not with Mario Kart and Animall crossing and Super Mario RPG 2 and....so forth so forth coming out.

Thanks, some interesting points.

I haven't looked at specifically at sales figures, except in Japan, because I can't seem to find a reliable source of them...

Any ideas?

Edit:

http://www.charttrack.co.uk/?i=256&s=1111

Quite out of date now.

to clarify the first thing, read this long 8 page piece of info

http://www.revolutionreport.com/index.php?act=articles&code=read&id=58&page=1

It talks all about the innovation of the DS and the Revolution, especially misconceptions that people have, and my other point is that Nintendo has not failed in the past to improve gamplay through controller interfaces. Nes introduces d pad, N64 introduced analog stick (or a smaller joystick), the DS touch screen, and now with the new revolution controller. Nintendos reputation has shown, obviously, that they know what they are doing wit this stuff.

Third party games and first party games do bring up quite a few bad games but there is an ample amount of fun games, specifically ones made by nintendo. To name a few, advanced wars dual strike,kirby canvas curse, mario kart ds, Nintendogs as mentioned above, warioware twisted (pure genius, a game you can play between breaths), the smash bros series, nothing wrong with mario party if they have mini games that are worth it, legend of zelda (practically the whole series), castlevania dawn of sorrow, and this list can go on forever with first party games alone. I understand people have opinions, but most opinions follow that these are good games.

Then you said about using the same trash, i never said that, i meant that using the same charachters, visuals and physical gameplay/inovative gameplay are two VERY different things. I do understand people getting sick of seeing mario, but who else is going to replace them. I cant see Kid Icarus jumping on goombas heads in New Super Icarus Bros Delux. Nintendo has built a foundation and it isn't going to just crash it just to start a new building. If you ever get sick of mario, play a different game.

by winning the war i meant by how much profit the company is winning or losing. I admit, the gamecube is having a hard time, but it isn't dead yet, especially to the fact that it has not yet shown it's full graphical power. Powerwise, the gamecube is very powerful, it is more powerful than the PS2 and not far from xbox. Its only limit is the disc size. when the revolution launches, i wouldn't be surprised if they continued with gamecube games, probably bigger disks but gamecube format. Only a possibility.

Nintendo is no small company, and i dont think it'll be falling anytime soon.

For reliable salesfigures go to the PGC forums (www.planetgamecube.com), handheld figures can be find in the handheld sector, consolefigures in the consoles sector.

yes it is a Nintendo website but is very critical and has a very nice forum (quite like this one) with most of times very fired up debates (not flamewars) about all things Nintendo.

Problem with salesfigures depens on the region.

Japan has weekly salesfigures (thank you weekly Famitsu) based on the retailers, not official numbers of the companies.(Xbox sales are extremely depressing...)

US figures are always 2 months behind (stupid NDP ... seems also that the three companies keep salesnumbers behind if they want to), US doesn't keep retailernumbers sadly (hereby i ask again for a western Weekly Famitsu type gamemag)

Europe figures rely solely what the companies tell trough official releases. Exception are the UK sales which seems to be based on the retailers.

Fair point about the NES and, to an extent, the N64. However part of my argument is that as of yet few innovative titles are on the DS.



Okay... Take all your games that are on your DS list and let's see how many are new:
advanced wars dual strike - sequel
kirby canvas curse - sequel
mario kart ds - sequel
Nintendogs - new game
warioware twisted - sequel
castlevania dawn of sorrow (not Nintendo) - sequel

Suddenly Nintendo isn't that innovative, is it?

And in my opinion none of these games are particularly innovative, in terms of introducing any new elements of gameplay.



That's because you can't see outside the box. Why would you replace one Nintendo franchise with another?

And how would "New Super Icarus Bros Delux" have new and inventive gameplay? The fact is it would a standard generic, but refined, platformer.



I suppose you could look at it like that. As a gamer, generally I don't class how good a game company is on its profit margins.



*Hits head against wall*

If you'd have pointed to the fact that the Gamecube could facilitate the gameplay of Resident Evil 4 then you might have a point.



I can't say I know anything about this. However I wouldn't have thought either graphics or disc size affect gameplay.



Dear old Acorn made massive profits for years and years until they started to fall out of touch with what customers wanted, profits decreasing, they staggered on for 8 years footing losses and quickly became invisible form the market and then disappeared.

All Nintendo needs to do is manufacture Revolution stock and not sell it and it'll be put in a poor financial position.

Actually on that point, has anyone noticed the amount of money Nintendo is spending on posh Flash websites? God! Every release, however, minor has a Flash website containing very little info of value! Probably millions of pounds just in website costs.

Sorry to pick at your post too Optimus (sumimasen!) but all of those are sequels, and Animal Crossing DS looks just like the Gamecube version (which was nearly exactly the same as the N64 version), Mario kart looks just like the N64 version having a head-on collision with the disappointing Double Dash.

Admittedly, Mario and Luigi 2 should be good - however it is still a sequel. The first one was innovative for a handheld game - and pure class.

ok, how about GTAIII- GTA San Andreas??? or Halo and Halo 2? hows some Tekken -Tekken 5 and soul caliber- Soul caliber 3?? Some Tony Hawks pro skater- tony hawk american wasteland (which happens to be the 7th SEQUEL)?? Or how about metal gear solid? No game CAN"T have a sequel, otherwise there would rarely be any new games. By what your saying, I see that you don't like any of these games or super smash bros meele or MKDD just because they had a prequel.

And as I said, read that article, because by how your talking I still don't think you did, it'll really help, especially if you apply the thought behind it to games themselfs.

Kirby canvas curse is a sequel but not innovative?? Did you realise the game doesn't even use buttons anymore?? you guide a ball form of kirby with lines of paint like a rooler coaster, thats OLD??? Mario kart ds implements the missions, customization of karts, and nintendo wifi, yet it still is mario kart DD? I find that the game as a whole is new (you would understand what I just said if you read that article). oh and sure, we always swung our gameboys and touched thier screens to magically input action to wario ware through secretly available but unheard of sensors. and what's wrong with playing dual strike, an amazing game itself (and its prequel), wirelessly with the ease of touch screens etc.

same with castlevania with breaking those rocks in your way and doing that wierd criss cross thingie and all. how about truama center?? cant say that's not innovative, unless your a surgeon.

And with Acorn, exactly, you said YEARS AND YEARS, nintendo being in the video game industry for 25 years is not YEARS AND YEARS. It may have been in the card industry scince the 1880's, but i highly dout that that will affect it now. just read the article, believe me, it's worth it. and optimusp was pretty much right.

Good points, well made.

Thanks :)

I'm sorry to see so many people complain about the DPad on the DS.
Sure, it's big, but if it wasn't that big, would it be as comfortable to use as 4 seperate buttons, like when playing Mario DS/Metroid with your stylus and left thumb?
I was under the impression that it was that big, because that was it's main purpose..

I just don't like giving up ;) its a bad habit.

and the d-pad is really as it should, the Gamecube's d-pad isn't too sharp to tell the truth. The only problem with the DS is that some of the buttons are a bit tacky in about half of all of them produced. I wonder, a micro like DS, interchangeable faceplates, brighter screen, sleeker, and .... um .... better....?

I'm starting to think that Adam is just trying to light some people's fuses to have this debate going... you sly bastard you :p.

Using the sequel arguemtn is a bit tacky though...everyone is quilty of doing sequels. Problem is is that the huge majority of the developers out there are responsible about the bad name sequels have these days.

Then you have Nintendo, Blizzard and....eeumh...someone give a few more examples because i can't cope with only 2 companies trying to add in every 'sequel' new elements of gameplay. Valve? does valve count? let's add Valve, then we have 3... i can live with 3.

Let's be honest about the PSP, it's huge killer-app GTA isn't ding it any good, it sells, yes, but it isn'lt shifting PSP's over the shelf in high gear. Nintendogs did that for the DS, Mario Kart will probably do it too (waiting for sales numbers to come out, could take a while).

Point i want to make, yes Nintendo makes sequels, again their a comapny too, they need to make profit, making sequels of high-brand names is a good way to make good profits. It's not that they are the only one doing it.
While Mario kart maybe look at first glance as a bland sequel it isn't. It has several unique tracks (one inside a pinball machine with a actual pinball rolling about you have to dodge) that excell in fantastic design.
You have a new weapon (a squid) if you get hit by it you're upper screen gets covered by ink that slowly wipes off...but your not completly blind, you can use the mapscreen for driving, it's a very simple but genious little new thing they added.

So i'm asking you, are you sick of N's sequels because they re-use Mario or Kirdy or some other Nintendo IP or are you sick of N-sequels because they don't add nothing new to the gameplay? first part i'll agree with you, second part, hell no.

And the DS needs the d-pad of the GBC or GBA, quick...then i'm very happy...

I've had to skip much f the posting, so sorry if this is repeated.

Maybe there is some confusion about the multiple machine strategy that keeps coming up:

Game Boy line we assume gets gamecube parts sometime in the future (possibly delayed until power/cost requirements come down). For now, Micro line, and the GBA phone appears to have gone.

DS line.

The organiser line, I think will be in the DS line.

Yes naive confusion reigns with all these. I don't really know what they are planning anymore.

But about what they can do. Two screens are generally more expensive than one screen of same spec and combined resolution. So it would be simple to make a large IPOD like device with higher resolution 4:3 screen (like a PDA) that acted like the top screen on top and the bottom touch screen screen on the bottom. Flip this around and you have one big PDA/GBA like screen with touch.

Now if they added PALM/JAVA, 200-400Mhz processor and better 3D, with OLED (please guys), with $150 phone version. We could have an effective DS/GBA replacement.

You're leaving one nice fact out of all that reasoning, Nintendo likes to keep their prices reasonable.

They start adding everything you just said you have a thing that's more expensive then the PSP and Nintendo does not like selling it's hardware on a loss basis. (in the last 25 years only when the GC dropped to 99 euro's did Nintendo lose money on hardware sales and only for a period of 4-6 months when Nintendo could force Ati in dropping its fees for their GPU)

The added costs would be low dollars (not certain about the processor though). My estimate, is that Nintendo handhelds are cheap, except maybe the DS due to it's dual screens, but then again maybe they got a special on the panels. PSP is complex and expensive in comparison to what I am suggesting.

To add better 3D requires little cost, cents to a dollar (I did not say it had to be PSP level). Replacing dual screen with on screen, could be a saving, especially when OLED/and others come on line properly. Adding limited PALM or JAVA, depends on the deal they can hammer out, one to ten dollars. Adding processor, dollars (though I don't know if any premium pricing applies to ARMs).

This is not a PSP killer spec I am talking about. Nintendo is supposed to have another machine for that. It is an cheap game organiser with Nintendo's long battery life advantage to steal sales away from the PSP. It is more like a slightly enhanced, relatively low volume, $200 Pocket PC, or enhanced soon to be $99 Palm.

I think one thing that a lot of people are missing when they say they want a lot less space between the two screens is that a lot of games would get screwed by this. Sure, there are some games like Lunar: Dragon Song that aren't programmed for the space difference, but there are many more that are, namely Animal Crossing: Wild World. Reducing the space between the screens would screw the game up horribly, considering when the bottom screen is used for gameplay the only visible thing on the top screen is the sky, due to the curvature of the small-planet like towns. As far as what I would like to see for the redesigned DS, I think they should scrap GBA compatibility altogether. Not only would the unused space allow for a much more compact handheld, but there wouldn't be a gaping hole for dust to collect in when no game is in it. The least they could do is put a small door over the entrance, kind-of like a floppy drive door. Have you ever tried holding the DS with no GBA game in the slot? The thin plastic is pretty painful to the fingers. Aside from scrapping the GBA function and reducing the size, I'd like to see colors to match the Rev, if only black and white, higher-resolution screens, and if any way possible, an extremely thin layer to cover the touch screen and protect from scratches while not affecting usability or display. Even the most careful gamers can't prevent small, hairline scratches from forming on the touchscreen's surface, even with the so-called "safe" stylus.

Dear Adam M, you usually make a lot of sense but this time I'm with Jodo4.

I totally understand being a Nintendo fan, you can get annoyed by the sometimes overuse of Nintendo's IP, but this is a games industry and money has to be made either way. If Nintendo wanna let other developers have a go at the high honour of making a game featuring their IP, then that's surely good to encourage creativity in those working for the smaller developer. So long as the games are good that's what really counts most.

You talk of lack of innovation for the DS from Nintendo, I'm sorry to disappoint you dude. If you wanna see the best the DS has to offer you have to look away from the official DS scene and to Japan. I own a copy of Ouendan for my DS and though a japanese game from a developer I'd never heard of, is very entertaining. Don't look at the DS as an N64 in your hand because it can and already is so much more.

I also own Atlus's Trauma Center: Under the Knife which is unlike any game you have played. A damn refreshing change from constant likes of home console GTA and it's various clones. Now surely a game where you operate to save lives, instead of taking them like GTA should be applauded by all. With all the bad press GTA has recently got, you should start counting your chickens.

And as for games and Nintendo not making as much new ones you forget how many games Nintendo have done. You forget the beauty of Pilotwings or the brilliance of 1080 Snowboarding (a game that has been ripped of a lot now). Pikmin, Starfox, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem (a damn good rpg from Nintendo that isn't Zelda), Wave Race, Custom Robo, Pokemon, Chibi Robo, Nintendogs etc. You can never say it's all about Mario game wise. The library of Nintendo IP has expanded over the years and that surely is a good thing and it will continue to happen. Whether people notice the non Mario games is the true test of Nintendo and their advertising dept and also one of the average gamer.

Sequels are a necessary evil, not just in the games industry but even the film industry. Everyone else does them too, even Sony and MS. Both the latter have lots of sequels too, but it's how you justify their creation, on the being good or bad games.

As it currently stand, DS is kicking PSP into touch in EU/U.K and U.S. DS is not selling on the back of films but just games. A focused product indeed and the way it should be.

In conclusion I ask Adam that he plays the DS games suggested above and decide based on proper play.

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