Bungie ? Halo 2 leak left emotional scars

Developer speaks on leak shock

Posted by Staff
Image from Bungie
Image from Bungie
Following the shocking leak of Halo 2 code in Europe last week, development studio Bungie has opted to comment on the matter, detailing the team?s thoughts.

?Needless to say we think this really sucks. Aside from years of hard work being stolen from us, we've gone to great lengths to ensure that the details of the Halo 2 campaign remain a mystery for players to experience for themselves on November 9th. Microsoft is currently engaged in a full scale investigation and to those foolish enough to partake in this piracy, you will soon witness the firepower of this fully operational battle station.?

The official notice continues, ?Members of the Bungie community - we need your help. The Underground Army is being called into action; this is not a drill. Anyone who has information regarding the leak of the game or individuals or websites promoting the download of these illegal files is asked to please contact us by sending email to piracy@microsoft.com or calling 1-800-RULEGIT. We also ask that you help us minimize the spoilers for those opting to wait for the retail release by refraining from posting screens, talking about the story and deleting any such posts you encounter. Many of you have already been actively tracking down and forwarding links to us and we thank you for your help.?

On the firm?s official board, the stance is a little more outspoken: The horrible leak of the French PAL build of the game, and the impressive, wonderful, heartening reaction from our fans ? who have been closing forum threads, slapping posters on the wrists and even reporting folks who broke the law. Community sites are all over it, and the big sites have been helping too, so a HUGE thanks to all of you guys. Whoever did this is a criminal, plain and simple, but this isn't a pulpit from which to spew a sermon. Suffice it to say that stealing a traceable, Live Aware video game isn't the smartest thing you could do. But the way our community rallied to our support yesterday and the day before was incredibly gratifying. And a note to otherwise regular folks who might be tempted to download a copy ? don't. It's really not worth the risk. Fines of up to $100,000 and all sorts of other legal remedies can be assessed against even individual downloaders. You know, we're not Metallica. The cost of this is emotional, not fiscal (jerks would just hack and pirate the game on Nov 9th anyway). Bungie is mostly concerned that this event is going to ruin the plot of the game for the 99.9999999999% of fans who buy the game on November 9th. As you know, we've spent three tortuous years preventing story leaks, hoarding screenshots ? not because we want to ? but because they'll reveal twists and surprises. Now a few jerks have ruined that for everyone. It's one thing to sneakily pirate software ? quite another to yell spoilers from the rooftops. As Napoleon Dynamite would say, "IDIOTS!"?


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Comments

Showing the 20 most recent comments. Read all 21.
GeoffreyBa 20 Oct 2004 15:30
2/21
acidviper wrote:
99.9999999999% is a really high percentage. You are not going to sell that many copies unless dogs and mosquitoes start buying copies.

It seems like you didn't read the article, it says that it would spoil the game for 99.9999..% of fans, not everyone. Dogs and mosquitoes are not fans of a video game no matter how much some people may think they are.
It also seems like a big waste of time if you could not prevent the story from being leaked right at the end. Why do you trust French morons, but not local game reviewers like IGN and Gamespot. If you could sue the French guy I'm sure their company is worth less than a million dollars. Whereas IGN or Gamespot are multi-million dollar companies where if they broke an NDA or leaked the game they would be screwed in the eyes of the public.

It would help if you refrained from calling other people morons, especially a whole country of people, Bungie chooses to do what they do for their own reasons. Not because some guy out there on the internet wants them to allow IGN or Gamespot to review a game. IGN for one has had enough playing time with the game over the past year to write what could basiclly be a complete review especially includeing their playing time from a few weeks ago, right before the game went Gold. And how do you expect Bungie if they cannot trust these French "morons", to be able to make enough copies for worldwide release, they've got to make enough copies some where and they can't all come from one place so they have atleast one for each country. Open your eyes a little.
As it stand Americans hate French people anyways.

That is why people hate Americans, they make stupid judgments and remarks like that. And thats coming from an American.
btnheazy03 20 Oct 2004 20:53
3/21
yeah .. that, and they bent over instead of fight for their country during world war 2 .. and they let the allied forces do all the dirty work (including the US) without showing gratitude .. and they're anti-semitic
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Joji 21 Oct 2004 02:03
4/21
I think it's kind of below the belt bringing the war into an arguement over a game. If not France it would have been somewhere else.

If you know your history properly you'll know Germany is right slap bang next to France. With the Nazis conquering Europe where could the french run to but into the sea. Part of any fight is knowing when you are beaten, and also how to get back on your feet to fight again. By letting the Nazi scum in, the french knew their enemy even more than ever, and as a result could fight them through the resistance. Had the french gone totally gung ho there would have been no resistance, and the Nazis would have reached England sooner, with America as their next stop. If you are a yank be greatful next time you salute to Lady Liberty and never forget where she came from.

As for leaving suddenly the yanks done great in Nam didn't they? Losing is humbling to all but also a chance to learn and every nation has lost at something.

As for the Halo 2 biz, try a worldwide release next time Bungie and MS, but good luck in you fight against the pirates.
Rod Todd 21 Oct 2004 09:01
5/21
I find it really difficult to sympathise with anyone who sells their soul to the Microsoft Empire of Evil.

I mean, It's tough and all, getting your work ripped off, but I'm sure they have enough beer to cry into, they bought with their Microsoft dirty money.

And if Xbox owners are miserable enough cockroaches to download this rather than buying it (when it is the most important and best title on their platform) then the whole Xbox thing deserves to bo bust.

Of course, Microsoft will never allow that to happen, because it's not about games, it's about getting a media player box into every lounge so that they can control (and profit from) every item of entertainment you watch, play or listen to.
vault 13 24 Oct 2004 17:08
6/21
Look whatever. Games get leaked all the time. When some guy uploaded the full Jedi Academy from some Lucas Arts employee's laptop to the web (at the E3 show I think), no one really gave a stink. I'm sure Lucas Arts was pissed. Yeah, common reaction. And yes, Halo 2 is going to be one of best games of the year. But come on, for Bungie to call out (more like whine), to the Halo fanbase, to do whatever they could to protect the only thing this company has to make money off, f them! (Can we curse? I dunno. Someone make a forum about cussing! Heh...) Piration happens everyday and no one makes a big deal about it. It was gonna happen anyway. And whose gonna get the story spoiled? Some little twelve year old who doesn't even really care about one of the biggest game events in history? Any real Halo fans are intelligent enough and cautious enough not to read or even go to sites that could potentially hold spoilers about Halo 2. Personally, if it was the full retail American version, I'd play it. To have an exact copy of my November 9th purchase to play a few weeks before, fantastic I'd say. And I'd be laughing at all the people who are trying to eek out a kill or two in multiplayer when they're faced with people like me, who've been honing our skills for weeks.

Well this post is meandering and losing focus. What I'm saying is this. F**k Bungie for crying about someone pirating there software. I didn't let Microsoft control me and say I can't have more games in the works! I didn't rip the game! I didn't ruin anything for anyone (if I infact downloaded the game). I'm buying my copy of Halo 2 and I'm not going on forums and ruining stuff about Halo 2. I don't know why Bungie thinks their case is sooooo much different from EVERY single other game out there that gets pirated. Downloading Halo 2 is the same as downloading the next Final Fantasy or Roller Coaster Tycoon or Bass Avenger! The effects are the same. Maybe not proportionally, but still the same. Don't get me wrong, I HATE piration. It drives up game sales and delays games so that they can have extra security measures to prevent it. But if someone is gonna post a game early before I can get it. I'm gonna enjoy every damn day of it.
LUPOS 25 Oct 2004 21:04
7/21
oh come off it! bungie is a developer first and formost... they have made great games for years and that is the primary goal... yes they are owned by MS now, is microsoft somehow more evil than sony in there money groubign world conquiring endevors? are you goign to tell me you only own a game cube? and onyl buy games made by independant developers cause your all about that? please... these guys are good guys who sepnt three years of their lives workign on this game and the one thing they made absoltly sure of was that the single player story was not uined before release... thats all they wanted... for the whole world to get it at once and experience it as it was ment to be, without any preconcieved notions. who gives a crap is MS owns them (unless your a long tiem mac for or a bitter ps2 owner) the still make great games on there own on their terms... you think ms is really dictating to these gusy what to do? MS knows that if not for halo the xbox would possibly have been dead by now. and as for "every game gets leaked" thats a weak cop out, very few games get leaked a full month before they are to be released in their full retail version... some get demo leaked liek doom, or source code leaked liek HL2 and most get pirated the day they come out but it is a rarity (atleast it used to be) for a big name game liek this to be ganged a full month ahead of schedule.

as for bungie asking there fans to help regulate the spreading of the game what is wrogn with that? these are people... you wana put the ms front on this hard workign dedicated group of around 50 guys(and girls) who only wanted to keep the story secret so as to not ruin the experience. and even though i am smart enough to not go on forums where peopel might ruin things i have been looking forward to 11/9 since it was first anouced, this is my christmas morning and now i find out that a bunch of peopel are goign to have played with my toy before i get to. its been tainted, this isnt just for bungies sake its for the sake of anyoen who really cares about this game. which for refference sake, is a hell of a lot fo people. how many times that you can think fo have every video game stor eint eh counry been open at midnight for a brand new game? are they doign that for san andres ? the eb by me sure isn't. this isnt #372 in a lon line of star wars games this is a monumental day in video game history, like mario 3 or super metroid. oh poor bungie and all their money, they deserve every cent they got and then some. point is bungie is bungie weather ms owns them or not. they do what they want and what they want is to make the best damn games they possibly can, in my opinion any one who so much as watches a friend play a burned copy of that game deserves a swift kick to the groin daily untill 11/9. and a thumb removal might also be in order.

call me crazy, as im sure someone will, but i think there are certain things that are sacred! this being one of them. so you, go "F" yourself.

thats just one fanboys opinion.

Rod Todd 26 Oct 2004 12:23
8/21
LUPOS wrote:
is microsoft somehow more evil than sony in there money groubign world conquiring endevors?


Yes.
LUPOS 26 Oct 2004 13:57
9/21
Rod Todd wrote:

Yes.


just because your life is more directly affected by windows does not make monopolyzing digital media formats any less important... less we forget the memory stick? a-trak? mini-disk? or the piece de resistance beta max? since as long as any one has known the name sony sony has been tryign to corner the market by suberverting what everyone else was doing and trying to trump it with some propriatary nonsence. and now the blu-ray comes out (and don't get me wrong from the stats, blu-ray kicks the crap out of hddvd) and sony retsarts the whole beta max war again with yet another propritary media format. yeah ms is huge casue the basically own the computer market but sony does the same thing for the rest of the entertainment industry including owning movie studiosso they can do an even better job pushing their new movie playback format.

the only reason i liek xbox over ps2 is because it seems to me that sony didn't put nearly the effort into makeing a "next gen system" dreamcast had built in support for online games and did relatively well with it, sony saw it thoguht it was a good idea... then left it out, same witht he hard drive, they knew it was a good idea... otherwise your ps2 woudl be alot smaller, but still they left it out, and then they have the balls to charge the same price for it as ms does for an xbox. and someone still bought the thing... does anyoen remebr the launch titles for that thing?

not exactly spectacular.

if im goign to give my money to a huge evil world controling corporation then im goign to give it to the one that supports my best intrests and M$ put out a far superior product at the same price point nd it was designed from the beggining to support inovations like nline play and downloadable content, and lets not forget the ever retarded 2 contoller port option. n64-4 ports, DC- 4 ports, ps2 -f'n stupid and yet all the sony lovers don't mind paying 30 bucks for a multi tap... an item i might add that cost them maybe 5 bucks tops to manufacture,... but every boddy throws a fit when they have to play for dvd play back on the xbox when alot fo peopel who payed the initial 300 already had dvd players! not to mention the additional cost of the hardive/network adapter... and if you do buy the xbox dvd player you get a remote... if you buy the sony remote control... it costs just qas much... so for the same functionaly (excluding the obviously superior graphics and such) i can pay $330 (original cost) for an xbox or 450 (ps2, hd/nic, remote, multi tap) hmmmm and whats that you say... i can play bouncer the day it comes out? wow... im a git me one o'dem thangs! tarnashon!

it hurts my head
__________
vault 13 26 Oct 2004 17:11
10/21
Man whatever, X-box didn't have any worthwhile games excluding Halo, which they had to buy out for exclusivity, on launch day or for a year after that! Go them for creating or publishing some of the worst games ever. (Mad Dash, Night Caster, Azurik, Brute Force!!!, Grabbed By The Ghoulies!!!, Kaukto Chojin, Tao Feng) . Damn I mean I can name about 20 off the top of my head that Sony has made in house in the first year that were good games for PS2. But that's not the point of this thread.

IT'S ALL ABOUT BUNGIE AND THEIR WHINING!!! It's about Bungie thinking their game is the end all and that their piration is some special case and that we, as the Halo gaming community, rally around and do their dirty work in rooting out the pirators. Let them be. I don't care, it's not ruining my experience. No one is playing with my toy! My COPY is preordered at MY EB. And at midnight on 11/9, I'm gonna be waiting on line for MY copy of Halo 2.
LUPOS 26 Oct 2004 18:20
11/21
vault 13 wrote:
IT'S ALL ABOUT BUNGIE AND THEIR WHINING!!! .


it is aboslutly not about there whining it is about there following suit with what valve did. they don't think they are special you just think that because its bungie and everyone else makes them out liek they are (olde thyme quote) the bees knees they they think so too! all the interviews i have read and all the articles i have seen have made them out to be very nice guys who are suprisignly humble. all they do is spend night and day workign to make this the best game they coudl possibly make.

heres a better analogy for you, forget the present thing. 11/9 is my weeding day, me and my lovely bride to be have been "waiting" for our wedding night to make things official! then all of the sudden a month before we are set to get married somebody snatches my girl comming out of work and rapes her... im pissed shes a mess... and her father is rightfully out there looking to tear the balls of of whoever just fouled his baby. this is different from a came comign out and then havign ilegal copies made... its like a girl who alreayd lost her virginity having meanigless sex with some guy from a club or something... those games wheren't that special anyway... this game was special espcially to me. maybe not you, but thats why you aren't marrying it (oh my signature is that much funnier right now). There are always going to be people who will just do whatever without concern for how it affects others around them and thats a damn shame, but even your avergae run of the mill prick doesnt write his name on the bathroom wall in a church. some things just demand little bit more respect than others(and no im not a religiou person but i understand the importance is holds to other people). this isnt some guy coping a feel on the subway(peakign at the doom 3 demo last year) or catchign a glimps up her skirt cause she sitting cross legged (valve source coad leeked) this is the total package takin againt there will and before anyoen else. this is MORE WRONG! or wronger or whatever. if you don't mind sloppy seconds thats your buisness, personaly it pisses me off and i have a great deal of sympathy for bungie in this matter as well because they have been nothign but fantastic to there fans, excellent web site... free version of there old games to try, a program that you can sue to run thier old mac games on a pc. and a fantastic support for all the moders out there. i would liek you to show many how many other developers have taken such a vested intrest in their fans and what they have to say. they didnt have to do a weekly update... they didn't have to do the whole ilovebees thing. this wall all extra, what they did for there fans to keep them happy during the painfull wait for that most speciall of days (ocasiaonl hand jobs if you will). sure it was a long wait but im willing to bet that nobody is going to be disastisfied after 11/9. if you dont liek the single player.. have a few friends over and go crazy ont the multi player. (im not even goign to try and explain that sexualy)
most people would probably have payed 50 bucks for just the multiplayer aspect... epic and ID figured that out years ago... but does bungie half ass one part in prefference of another.. no its all top notch. shes a giver. and your just to heartless to care about anyone but your self. its easy to sit there at your desk in your basement bitchign about these peopel being @$$hols cause they make more money than you but they all have names and faces and are good hard workign people that didn't deserve to have this happen to them.

and again go f your self :)
_____
vault 13 27 Oct 2004 14:32
12/21
LUPOS wrote:
vault 13 wrote:
All these bands make s**tloads of money, I don't need to pay money for their crappy cd just so they can get richer.


This is what my friend thinks about the music industry. This is what he thinks of pc game developers. He doesn't buy anything BUT X-Box games because he wants HIS FAVORITE SYSTEM to thrive and to see Sony die. He hasn't bought a PC product ever. And THAT HURTS all involved EVEN the lowly consumer who has to pay more now for video games than ever before. This is more than just Bungie having their game leaked. Games get leaked a month or so before release all the time. (*ahem* Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy) It's about piration and how it ruins the game industry. It's about how each and everyone of these posters who are distraught over the game being leaked are probably using a burned (leaked) copy of Windows XP! Hypocritical?! Well I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, I'll let you decide how you feel on that situation. You think it's different? It's not. Piration is piration! You want gray area. Think about someone who scratched up their copy of Half-Life, so they decide to pirate a new copy instead of buying a new one.

If you don't buy it and you pirate it, your no better than the people who leaked Halo 2.

And as for Lupos' analogies, they make NO sense! Example: It's like some prick goes to see that new Tim Burton movie at a private screening before I get to see it, it's tainted now.

I bet if Lupos could get his copy of Halo 2, his offical retail box version of Halo 2 from his EB, early he'd do it. He wouldn't wait for 11/9. He wouldn't. I understand not playing the leaked version. I'm not playing it. Most of it is in French. If it was the US version, damn I'd of beaten it by now.

Man, this whole thing is silly. The only reason he cares is because he's been waiting for the game forever. He's selfish, he doesn't care about piration, he doesn't care about the companies losing money. Hell, he's Jewish, he hates paying for anything. It comes with the terrority! (sorry I had to)

So let's just agree I'm right and that if your gonna argue take a stand AGAINS'T PIRATION not just one game you worship! Otherwise don't argue.
LUPOS 28 Oct 2004 14:48
13/21
the world isn't black and white mr bush!
things arent just good and evil.
its not that simple, simpel ideas for simple minds. i'm sure the lovely peopel on this boared are sick of seeign the two of us bitchign at each other but it continues anyway.

ok first of all.. bravo on dodging any poitnt i made about bungie not jsut being some group of averge f'usp making crappy games and charging to much for them. seocndly i do download piratred software... i dont have 200 dollars to pay for a copy of windows xp it cost to damn much. thirdly i have never download any game or cd that i actully got any real use out of... i have download several singles and if the option to buy singles still existed at the time i may have payed for them, but im not goign to buy a jefeson starship cd just to own we built this city on rock and roll. the only exception to that was quake 3 which i did play a great deal and by all means shoudl have bought and technically at the time had the money to buy. chalk it up to youthfull indiscretion. as for paying more and more for video games, i have to say. your retarded. peopel payed 60 bucks for star fox, i payed 60 bucks for zero tolerance, and conkers bad fur day came out for 80 if i remebr corectly... regular nes games where 50 bucks in 1988 considering the cost of inflation video games are subsatially cheaper now considering how much more money goes in to making them. a big budget title on average cost around 10 million to make. yo uhtink they spent 10 million dolalrs in 1988 making excite bike? retard.

this isnt about piracy in general... im not suprised this happend, im suprised it happened as early as it did but im not shocked that it got out early. i am however very saddened by it. there are some bands that i thingk put out fantastic music.. whoel albums... when i find one of those i buy it. when somone makes a great game that is all over great, i buy it (an on ocasion i have made the mistake of buying a crap game by falling for the hype machine, stupid brute force). i dont blame people for downlaoding it and playign it for free, its not goign to affect game sales, no one things halo2 is goign to suffer in sales from this, its just sad. you keep tryign to spin this in a different direction, whinign piracy in general, my tenedency to download piratee things. when was th elast time game stores all across the counrtry oepn late at night the day befor ea games coems out to have big mulitplayer parties and hand out copies of the game at midnight? did that happen got san andreas? i didnt hear about it. i dont remebr that ever happening. (not that that menas it hasnt just that "I" dont remember it). This isnt the biggest game of 2004, this isnt the biggest game on xbox, or even this generation, this shoudl be (hopefully) one of the best games ever made, next time somone puts out a list of best games of all tiem there is going to be a new contender in the top ten.

anyone who really apreciates all the troubel bungie has gone through to keep this a secret and all the other things they did to keep the fans happy untill that fatefull day. i love bees didnt bring new peopel to halo 2, it wa sment to entertain the already devoted fans. the weekly updates? these are things doen by good peopel who really apreciate there fans.

there are soem celebrities who act nice in fron of a camera but cant ever be bothered to sign an autograph on the street for a fan. then there are those who genunly apreciate the fact that if nto for there fans they woudlnt have what they do and always take the time to sign autographs for anyone. those peopel are few and far between and deserve higher regard in my opinion.

i dont especially love the counting crows but when my then girl friend made me go to a show we where todl that if we went out back that they would sign autographs and sure enough after standing out there for about half an hour the lead singer came out and not only signed everythign peopel asked him to but stood there and actulyl just tlked with his fans for a good 45minutes or more.

that deserves soem respect.

something you have none of.

as for my judaism agian, go f'yourself you squinty eyed cock bite!

vault 13 29 Oct 2004 14:36
14/21
Okay okay, with all these low blows around here, it feels like the Clinton presidency. I'll stop arguing if you admit that your just selfish. YOU want Halo 2 not to be ruined so YOU can have the amazing experience that you've been fantasizing about. As much as you say you care about Bungie, which in a way I think you do now, it's really just a cover. You don't care about the all the other companies hurt by piration. You don't care when other games get leaked, however big or small. If San Andreas gets leaked, you'd probably laugh your ass off, but as soon as one of the games you've been waiting for all these days (months?, years?, decades?, no years...), gets defiled as you seem to call it, you get all whiney like Sheeva after a babality finisher. Also if you can afford a $1,000 t.v., you can afford Win XP. If your saying to yourself, Microsoft has lots of money and doesn't get affected by what you call one more person downloading a free copy of Win XP, then Bungie can afford one more person downloading Halo 2.

It doesn't seem like we're all grasping the issues here. The issue here is piration as a whole. Not piration that affects your greedy self. I admit what the guys did, leaking Halo 2 early, sucks. But it happens all the time. My game experience is never going to be tainted with unless someone forces me to watch all of it á la Clockwork Orange style.

If your gonna pirate anything, don't complain when your Halo 2 gets pirated. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
vault 13 29 Oct 2004 14:56
15/21
Also, games haven't gotten cheaper in terms of cost to make. They need to sell more units now than before. The only reason games are cheaper is because the dumb cartridges aren't used anymore. If you remember PS1 games were $40 and PS2 are $50. So for all you non math majors, that's a ten dollar increase in price. Price of Diablo 2 and Unreal Tournament on launch day, 30 fricken dollars!!!! But apparently reducing prices didn't solve the piration problem, it actually increased. So actually what we need to do here is NOT pirate. Even if your download a Jefferson Starship or Nelson song or Alien vs. Predator movie, your still keeping the community alive. If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.
LUPOS 29 Oct 2004 15:26
16/21
OMG
alright first of all i said that games have gotten more expensive to make and have stayed relitavly the same price even though inflation woudl dictate a rise in price over the past 15 years, infact...
in 1990 the minmum wage was $3.80 and now it is $5.15, for those non math majors out there that is an increase of 26% assuming that a game cost roughly 50 bucks back in the day (which most games did) then games today should cost roughly 63 dollars a piece. thats nto even considering the increase in cost to produce. i found a lovely article on msnbc that states...
"In 1996 a typical PlayStation game cost less than $1 million to make and sold for $49. Today, development costs for an Xbox or PlayStation 2 game run anywhere from $5 million to $7 million per title and sell for $49.99. And some game titles can cost upwards of $30 million."
im glad you seem to remeber buying a few specific titles for 30 bucks but the rest of the wrold has been payign 50 bucks a piece for video games for as long as i can remember.

as for piracy if i had the option to go and buy a single song for the past 5 years i would have, i pay 2 bucks a piece for freaking ring tones, im not adverse to payign for things if its a reasonable price, but i dont apreciate being forced to pay 15 dollars for 10 crappy songs so i can have one song that i like. and now that i tunes and so many others have set up systems where i actually can just buy songs for like a dollar a piece i no longer download mp3's. and the only reason those servies exist now is becaus epeopel liek me downloaded mp3s "illegaly". i was part of the solution and now there is a solution. if we had all just sat there and happily bought the over priced cd's and never download any mp3's things would still be the same, rebellion inspires change.

power to the people!

oh by the way, where do you plan on getting the music to fill that 15 gig ipod you just bought? thats roughly enough room for 5000 songs or 400+ cd's. do you own 400 cd's? shame you cant use itunes to download signles as that woudl make you a hypocrit and short sighted!

bring it on dipstick!
vault 13 29 Oct 2004 16:26
17/21
It's funny you'll pay $2 for a crappy ringtone, that took someone 5 seconds to make with a keyboard and a midi soundbank and not pay .99 cents for a song that took at least few hundred dollars even for the most crappiest of L.I. punk bands. The reason you pay two dollars is because you can't pirate them. Well you can pirate ringtones, hell you can make your own, but your too lazy to do so, thus you plunk $1.99 and download the level 3 music from Sonic 2 and set it as your ringtone. Thus re-establishing your uber-1337 status. Your not paying $2 to support the midi-ringtone community, at least well, I really hope not. And for someone who never bought a PC game in his life, it's funny how you know how much they cost back in '99. Also your article is wrong if it said PS1 games were $50. Because they weren't and they aren't now.

I no longer download mp3s???!!! Oh man, I'm gonna rip you a new one if you ever download another song again. You've never been too big on downloading mp3s. You were when you were all about your PC. But you really don't play PC games or use your PC for much more than that Optimus head (how's that coming actually?, sarcasm not intended) and light internet browsing. Hell you don't really sit down and listen to music except in the car I think.

I think your ideals have changed. Or at least have changed to make your argument more cohesive.

As for downloading illegal music to make a difference, you DID NOT help anything. Nothing has changed, less Sony's drop in suggested retail price to 11.99-18.99 per cd (it's up to the discrestion of the retailers to choose a price that they deem fit). What would have and still will help is NOT going to major chain stores to buy your cds but to the little mom and pop stores, which may I add usually have much better musical selections. Stealing music is only going to make companies raise prices. They have to find a way to make money back from all those music piration losses, right? And no company wants to REDUCE prices(*gasp) to try to make up losses.

The same goes for the PC games and applications. Saying that prices are too high and that "I can't afford Maya's $400 price tag", so I'm just gonna pirate it because I need it. Don't complain about high price tags. If you want me to pay $50 for Halo 2, pay for your art programs. They worked and work just as hard as Bungie to create fine products. They deserve your money just as much. If things are bad, then we need to change them. Like your commendable political activism, exert some energy to the pirators. If we had no piration, in theory, prices would drop. And maybe we don't even need to thwart piration. I mean the big retail corporations are mainly to blame. If you buy an 18.99 cd, your not helping, if you pirate, be it a song or an album, your not helping.
LUPOS 29 Oct 2004 17:54
18/21
are we even talking about the same things?
you just keep jumping topics and tryign to brign up personal bits to argue a point you dont have.

vault 13 wrote:
It's funny you'll pay $2 for a crappy ringtone, that took someone 5 seconds to make with a keyboard and a midi soundbank and not pay .99 cents for a song that took at least few hundred dollars even for the most crappiest of L.I. punk bands.


actually if you coudl read you woudl see i said that i dont download mp3s anymore, only exception ebing to see if an album is actually worth my time. i know what music i liek i know what i dont and ont he rare ocasion soemthign i liek come sout i buy it other wise i just dont bother with it.

The reason you pay two dollars is because you can't pirate them. Well you can pirate ringtones, hell you can make your own, but your too lazy to do so, thus you plunk $1.99 and download the level 3 music from Sonic 2 and set it as your ringtone. Thus re-establishing your uber-1337 status.


again, i said i dont download mp3's now and i know i coudl make my own ring tones if i had a phone that suported such a thing but i dont, sprint seems to be fairly tight on soem fo the older models and its not worth the effort when my phone only hodls all of liek 6 songs anyway... i spent about 10 bucks ot have my phone how i like it and now i dont have to spend anythign on ti anymore.

Your not paying $2 to support the midi-ringtone community, at least well, I really hope not. And for someone who never bought a PC game in his life, it's funny how you know how much they cost back in '99. Also your article is wrong if it said PS1 games were $50. Because they weren't and they aren't now.


wow... a reporter from msnbc who spoke to peopel who actually work int he industry doesnt knwo how much video games cost back then, but a 24 guy who works in a copy shop / internet cafe is infalable. i see your logic.
as for pc games i own waaaaay more pc games than i have ever downloaded illegal, as i easily admited when in school i downloaded and played quake3 alot and have never played any other illegaly gotten game in any length. i downloaded them and tried them and didnt like them, and last i checked block buster doesn't rent pc games so i feel no remorse for trying before buying, perhaps you've heard of the test drive?

I no longer download mp3s???!!! Oh man, I'm gonna rip you a new one if you ever download another song again. You've never been too big on downloading mp3s. You were when you were all about your PC. But you really don't play PC games or use your PC for much more than that Optimus head (how's that coming actually?, sarcasm not intended) and light internet browsing. Hell you don't really sit down and listen to music except in the car I think.


all sadly true having a job and not living in a dorm room changes things a bit

I think your ideals have changed. Or at least have changed to make your argument more cohesive.


my ideals are the same, i felt no remorse downloading mp3s liek mad in college because 1) cd's cost to damn much and i would rather be able to buy singles and 2) because i was broke cause i was in college.
however now i have money so i coudl by cds if i felt liek it and mor eimportantly i can now download 1 song at a time for $1 or less each.

As for downloading illegal music to make a difference, you DID NOT help anything. Nothing has changed, less Sony's drop in suggested retail price to 11.99-18.99 per cd (it's up to the discrestion of the retailers to choose a price that they deem fit).


actually as i said you can now download any single song you want for less than a dollar. learn to reat squinty

What would have and still will help is NOT going to major chain stores to buy your cds but to the little mom and pop stores, which may I add usually have much better musical selections.


no argument there... if any existed anywhere near me i might actually do that, as is last time i baught a cd was direct from the band pre order so i coudl get a signed one :)

Stealing music is only going to make companies raise prices. They have to find a way to make money back from all those music piration losses, right? And no company wants to REDUCE prices(*gasp) to try to make up losses.


funny cause as far as i know no one has increased cd prices since mp3's started and infact as you said above.. sony actully drastically lowered theirs... you just liek to argue don't you?

The same goes for the PC games and applications. Saying that prices are too high and that "I can't afford Maya's $400 price tag",


*cough* WHAT?! try between $2,200 and $7,200
why don't you actulyl look up a fact on ocasion

so I'm just gonna pirate it because I need it. Don't complain about high price tags. If you want me to pay $50 for Halo 2, pay for your art programs. They worked and work just as hard as Bungie to create fine products. They deserve your money just as much.


its true, but if i coudl buy a full version of photo shop or illustrator or flash for 50 bucks i would, and so would alot of other people, i am not however paying between 200 and 8000 for soem program that i am only using for entertainment.

im nto making any money off of maya... and even maya has realized the need for students to be able to get free versions of there software to learn because the more peopel learn 3d using maya the more 3d artist youll have in the industry who preffer it and the more fututre revenue they have, thats why they offer a free version, only prod is the screen constantly has a big transparent "educational edition" written across it. as long as im only using it for none profit related activities i dont midn using the pirated one.


If things are bad, then we need to change them. Like your commendable political activism, exert some energy to the pirators.


i don't think pirates are a problem nor do i think games are over priced, i pay 20 bucks for a dvd that i watch once and gives me 2 hours of enetertainment or i pay 50 for a game i and play it for 50-100 hours. i think video games are amazingly cheap and dont think pirates are a problem.

If we had no piration, in theory, prices would drop. And maybe we don't even need to thwart piration. I mean the big retail corporations are mainly to blame. If you buy an 18.99 cd, your not helping, if you pirate, be it a song or an album, your not helping.


you just don't make sense, first you say i shoudl go to mom and pop stores and pay more for cds cause that would actulyl help, and i agree, then you say i shoudlnt pay 19 bucks for a cd from best buy, the reason i go to best buy is cause their cd's are only liek 12 dollars.

its painfully obvious you are just tryign to instigate this argument ratehr than make a worth while point.
try lookign up some info when you make blind claims and tryign keeping your argument consistent when your willing to argue so vehimently you should make sure you arent so terribly wrong.

for future refference
direct from nintendo land
"Atari drops their prices, bigtime
In 95 you could buy the Atari Jaguar 64 bit (it was not a real 64-bit machine) for only 49 dollars! Thatīs not more than a normal SNES game!
"


_____
vault 13 29 Oct 2004 20:17
19/21
1) For one who said it would be more money to buy cds from mom and pop stores. If you've ever checked the prices, they are much less than super chain stores.

2) You've never downloaded a $1 song and I doubt you ever will.

3) As for your try before you buy argument, you used to always tell me that I was a sucker for buying retail box games. You've, as of my last count, have bought none.

4) As for Maya as entertainment, I do believe you were trying to put a portfolio for a CAREER in some sort of 3D work. And even still, still illegial, just the same as pirating a copy of Halo 2. People lose money, people get hurt.

The whole f**king point here is that you pirate as much as you like to refute the minor points. So you have no right to bitch about people ruining your Halo 2 experience. People pirated Halo 2, you say it's gonna ruin the single player experience. You also try to validate non-selfishness by saying that it's going to hurt Bungie in many respects. But then, you pirate Windows, graphic programs, and everything else for your PC. I'd go as far to say you've never bought anything for your computer. So to say to people to be sorry for Bungie and for you to whine like a bitch is hypocritical.

I just wish you'd admit that your upset about the Halo 2 leak because your selfish desire. Ain't nothing wrong with that. But don't try and care for Bungie, because you'd have to feel bad for all the other companies who have had losses from piration. And that's EVERY ONE,... except for Acclaim, because nobody pirates their games.
LUPOS 31 Oct 2004 16:45
20/21
1) For one who said it would be more money to buy cds from mom and pop stores. If you've ever checked the prices, they are much less than super chain stores.


it cost way more for new cd's at privatly owned stores cause it the only wa they can make any oney... walmart actully sells their cds below what they pay for them in order to draw in sutomers to get them to buy other things where as someone who just sells cds cant do that.. usually the advantge of oging to private record stores is that they have cool used cds.

2) You've never downloaded a $1 song and I doubt you ever will.


true and probaby true but its not because i think its a bad idea it cause i dont spend alot of time sitting around listening to music like i did years ago, on the rare ocasion something come sout i like i buy the album, since that happens like 3 times a year and i can get new albums for 10 bucks i dont mind it so much now.

3) As for your try before you buy argument, you used to always tell me that I was a sucker for buying retail box games. You've, as of my last count, have bought none.


in the past when i played computer games i bought several and to this day own several. the only game i have ever downloaded and played extensivly is quake3 anything else i ever played for more than ten minutes i bought.

4) As for Maya as entertainment, I do believe you were trying to put a portfolio for a CAREER in some sort of 3D work. And even still, still illegial, just the same as pirating a copy of Halo 2. People lose money, people get hurt.


no one lost money you keep syaing i t but you cant validate it, i wouldnot buy a 4000 dollar program unless i actulyl had a job doing it, and then my company would have paid for it not me.
there for they didnt loose any money, and for refference sake the day a new version of maya coems out people arent lined up outside there local alias store at midnight to buy it, im not biutching about piracy im bitching the upset that this has caused for bungie and all the halo fans who where patiently waiting for this special day.

The whole f**king point here is that you pirate as much as you like to refute the minor points. So you have no right to bitch about people ruining your Halo 2 experience. People pirated Halo 2, you say it's gonna ruin the single player experience. You also try to validate non-selfishness by saying that it's going to hurt Bungie in many respects. But then, you pirate Windows, graphic programs, and everything else for your PC. I'd go as far to say you've never bought anything for your computer. So to say to people to be sorry for Bungie and for you to whine like a bitch is hypocritical.


i didn't say it hurt bungie they did, an di feel bad for them and it sucks for me to think other peopel have already played it before they are supposed to. yes it is a selfish reason, i never said it wasnt, im not suprised it happened and i dont expect the peopl who did it to loose any sleep over it, im voicing my opinion that this sux for me cause for me 11/9 was supposed to be special and its just a little less special now. that has nothing ot do with photoshop cs, i could give a rats ass if someone has it before me and i dont think you can fidn many people who do care, whereas there are tons of peopel who are upset that halo2 was leeked. if you poled people who preordered the game i bet i would be in the majority.

I just wish you'd admit that your upset about the Halo 2 leak because your selfish desire. Ain't nothing wrong with that. But don't try and care for Bungie, because you'd have to feel bad for all the other companies who have had losses from piration. And that's EVERY ONE,... except for Acclaim, because nobody pirates their games


again i dont think this will hurt bungie finacialy, i dont think they are going to loose any sales, i do think they are genuinly upset liek i am because it got out early. thats what i care about.

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vault 13 31 Oct 2004 22:50
21/21
Well then I guess this thread is done.


Metroid Prime is a much better game than Halo. Discuss amongst yourselves...
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