PS3 vs Xbox 360 Sales Snowstorm

PAL vs Europe vs EMEA vs... huh?

Posted by Staff
Count the PS3s!
Count the PS3s!
Speaking to industry bible MCV David Reeves, president of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, said, "I am confident that in PAL territories our installed base is 300,000 units ahead of Xbox 360?. This comes, apparently, from the company's internal figures.

While Reeves is not disputing Microsoft's claim that over November the 360 outsold the PS3, the timing of Sony's boast is clearly not a coincidence.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make it very easy to compare figures. For starters, Sony doesn't give a hard figure, despite the fact that it clearly has one. Microsoft, for its part, says it has sold "more than seven million consoles in Europe". So Sony's sold somewhere between seven and seven and a half million then, depending on what Microsoft classes as "more than", right? Quite possibly not.

In today's press release Microsoft is talking about Europe. Reeves is talking about PAL territories - which includes, according to Sony, "104 territories across Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Oceania", (Oceania including Australia, New Zealand and several smaller Pacific islands).

So, 300,000 more PS3s than 360s might have been sold in PAL territories, but that doesn't help us see which is selling better in Europe, which seems to be what Microsoft wants to talk about. Or is it?

That "more than seven million consoles in Europe" quote comes from Microsoft's announcement this morning. Just last week, SPOnG got confused because we'd seen that figure, but Microsoft's David Gosen had said just a few days before that seven million 360s had been sold in EMEA - Europe, the Middle East and Africa. So which was it? We got hold of Microsoft and were assured, "In case of console numbers it?s 7m in EMEA." But then that seven million figure popped up again this morning, so... which is it again?

Is it really too much to ask for transparent? Like-for-like figures relating to agreed-upon territories so that consumers can see how well each console is doing and make informed purchasing decisions based on that? Really?
Companies:
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Comments

VinTheDean 4 Dec 2008 21:02
1/10
Transparency should be there I agree.

The thing that Sony is trying to say is just that it is doing quite well for a console that has been out for two versus a console that has been out for three years.

Xbox will always have the number on their side because of the this.
PreciousRoi 5 Dec 2008 01:59
2/10
Honestly...the unadulterated hubris of the media these days...

You'll take whatever scraps they give you and you'll report them is what you'll do. You aren't entitled to anything more.

Attempting to cloak you desire for statistics in consumer advocacy is insulting to consumer advocacy, and your reader's intelligence. No "consumer" needs to know exactly how many consoles were sold in what territories..."informed purchasing decisions", my MFA...

Go on then, explain it to me...give me a single example of a theoretically actual potential console purchaser to whom it would make a bit of difference to if Sony's EU sales are 200K or 300K more than MS'...

Oh wait...by "consumer" did you mean "fanboy", and by "make informed purchasing decisions" did you mean "keep score"?

Won't someone please think of the fanboys? Without clear, transparent figures, how can they possibly know who's winning? Bleh, I couldst retch.
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superman 5 Dec 2008 05:21
3/10
i think these number statements are more aimed at developers so
they might be persuaded into more exclusively create games for that plateform
what i mean is if i were a developer i would rather develop games for a console that had a higher install base. in each area rather than like a console thats sold 5 -.-
Tim Smith 5 Dec 2008 10:57
4/10
PreciousRoi wrote:
Attempting to cloak you desire for statistics in consumer advocacy is insulting to consumer advocacy, and your reader's intelligence. No "consumer" needs to know exactly how many consoles were sold in what territories..."informed purchasing decisions", my MFA...


Jings! Consumers don't need to know? But consumers do need to have flabby figures regurgitated in apples for oranges comparisons? I don't agree with you Precious.

Other people who don't need to know are retailers? Developers? The staff of the platform holders? Stockholders? There are people other than fanboys who read this site.

If no one needs to know, then don't declare any figures at all. But of course, many people other than fanboys (who you appear to be fixated on) who do need to know.

If you are going to declare figures then be accurate about them. And, unless the inventory management within the three platform holders is so incredibly poor that the management should be sacked, declare accurate figures.

And don't make apples for oranges non-comparisons in order to appear to be doing what you're not.

For me it is not OK to say, "PAL territories" but include France and Russia (both Secam)? It's not acceptable to use Europe when you mean Europe, the Middle East and Africa (and include Australasia).

It's not okay to say sold when you mean shipped to retail... or on a boat off the coast of China.

We are talking about the language that comes out of the platform holders and is expected to be regurgitated by the media. I'd expect you, of all people, to be all over this use of language to hide information rather than express it.

PreciousRoi wrote:
Go on then, explain it to me...give me a single example of a theoretically actual potential console purchaser to whom it would make a bit of difference to if Sony's EU sales are 200K or 300K more than MS'...


My elder brother. A chap I met in GameStation a few weeks ago. The same consumer who would prefer to purchase a piece of kit based on real information. The kind of consumers who - like me once - bought a vacuum cleaner because the retailer assured me that "Yes, it's cheaper because there are loads of them coming into the country". It turns out that there weren't. No biggie? Well it bloody well was when it turned out that I the replacement bags cost an arm and a leg until they ceased to be available.

PreciousRoi wrote:
Oh wait...by "consumer" did you mean "fanboy", and by "make informed purchasing decisions" did you mean "keep score"?


No we don't. No we don't.

PreciousRoi wrote:
Won't someone please think of the fanboys? Without clear, transparent figures, how can they possibly know who's winning? Bleh, I couldst retch.


Crikey. That's a hell of a reaction to a bit of analysis.

Cheers

Tim
SuperSaiyan4 5 Dec 2008 14:04
5/10
Sony is doing absolutly s**t thats a very well known fact week on week month on month Microsoft is telling everyone on the performance on how well the 360 is doing even when it was outselling the PS3 in Japan of all places.

Microsoft don't want to give out a solid figure because Sony aren't and vice versa but I am sure if Microsoft did they would put Sony to shame big time.
some 5 Dec 2008 16:32
6/10
And you need to put the Wii numbers in there as well? To keep it fare, right? Now that all three are competing. Has Sony admitted the Wii as competition?
PreciousRoi 5 Dec 2008 19:16
7/10
Tim, Fail.

If the console companies are playing funny semantic, or creative accountancy games with these figures, by all means, point it out, and attempt to discern reality from their fictions. But to say that "no figures at all" would be preferable is just silly. You take what they give you, you sift through it, do a bit of research and you draw some conclusions. My argument wasn't that consumers should be completely denied any information at all, it was that the obfuscated figures supplied provide sufficient information to draw a real world conclusion, an estimate, which is more than accurate enough. (I think this was clearer in my first two attempts to post, where I also delineated a disturbing trend amongst the media Stateside, wherein they're beginning to take themselves as the Fourth Estate a bit too seriously)

I asked you to provide a single example of a person in a position to buy a console to whom it would make any difference if Sony's lead in the EU territory differed by 100K units, so tell me, your elder brother would actually change his purchasing decision based on a swing of 100K units over the whole of the EU region? I'm sorry, I'm not buying, and I don't even think you were trying, instead you tried to swing the argument back to generalized consumer advocacy, and made a vacuum cleaners to game console comparison. We aren't talking about generalities or replacement bags here, nor are either of the consoles in question in danger of pulling a "Sega". Both consoles have healthy sales, and healthy futures...all signs and information available point to a fairly close race betwixt the twain, which is what consumers need to know. So there's no real need to get up on that high horse, unless you just like the view.

Now, I could easily see a much better argument for even more specific numbers being available than those which you are agitating for...accurate sales numbers for the whole of the EU, not so necessary, the broad strokes are enough....accurate sales figures (or online service account numbers) broken down by country, or more specifically, language, now that could be quite useful, depending on conditions. A Polish consumer, for example, might find it good to know that his countrymen, and hence his language, is well represented on a particular console over another, were such to be true.

Anyways, sorry if, by the time I did get that third version posted it had been boiled down to what was directed solely at SPOnG, but by that point I'd already had several fantasies casting myself as Godzilla rampaging amongst a Tokyo made of C64s with tape drives and populated by rocketmonkeys.
MRXBOX n VAN BC 6 Dec 2008 00:47
8/10
It is like the #1 thing in Real Estate ; LOCATION , LOCATION , LOCATION ! In the console World the #1 thing is ; CONTENT , CONTENT , and MORE CONTENT ! You get what you pay for . XBOXLIVE cots enough to keep out the Riffraff and supply me with GAMES , MUISAC , and my friends list is always full of people on NETFLIX ( NETFLIX is a trade mark , of the DEATH OF BLU RAY ) ! Ask yourself if people by a cheap Blu ray player this Holiday season , why Double up with a PS3 ? Especially when monies are tight , people might just want to RENT ! PLUS THE PS3 IS MISSING ME ! MRXBOX n VAN BC , XBOX 360s BEST EVER PLAYER !!!! THX 4 PLAY ~N~
repus 17 Dec 2008 17:11
9/10
SuperSaiyan4 wrote:
Sony is doing absolutly s**t thats a very well known fact week on week month on month Microsoft is telling everyone on the performance on how well the 360 is doing even when it was outselling the PS3 in Japan of all places.

Microsoft don't want to give out a solid figure because Sony aren't and vice versa but I am sure if Microsoft did they would put Sony to shame big time.


What nr are you looking att the official nr for sold unit in japan is 2,473,351 for the ps3 and 782,832for the xbo360 how can that bi if sony is out sold i japan???????


Hardware | This Week | Last Week | Last 4 Weeks | YTD | LTD
PS3 | 34,978 | 17,436 | 88,216 | 831,675 | 2,473,351
360 | 11,423 | 15,474 | 47,639 | 274,387 | 782,832
Tim Smith 17 Dec 2008 17:31
10/10
PreciousRoi wrote:
Now, I could easily see a much better argument for even more specific numbers being available than those which you are agitating for...accurate sales numbers for the whole of the EU, not so necessary, the broad strokes are enough....accurate sales figures (or online service account numbers) broken down by country, or more specifically, language, now that could be quite useful, depending on conditions. A Polish consumer, for example, might find it good to know that his countrymen, and hence his language, is well represented on a particular console over another, were such to be true.


True. True. Fair point and taken.

PreciousRoi wrote:
Anyways, sorry if, by the time I did get that third version posted it had been boiled down to what was directed solely at SPOnG, but by that point I'd already had several fantasies casting myself as Godzilla rampaging amongst a Tokyo made of C64s with tape drives and populated by rocketmonkeys.


No probs Roi.

Cheers

Tim
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