The BBFC's Jim Cliff is one of twelve examiners at the classification board who deals with videogames. Cliff was on hand at GameCity last week to talk about, amongst many other things, the continuing refusal on behalf of the BBFC to give Rockstar’s Manhunt 2 an 18-rating due to the game’s "unremitting bleakness and casual sadism."
While Rockstar continues to appeal against the BBFC’s decision, many adult British gamers are confused, angry and a little upset about this decision, particularly in light of the fact that the edited version of the game (still not edited enough for the BBFC!) goes on sale in the US later this very week on Halloween.
While Cliff is currently not able to talk (publicly) about the Manhunt 2 decision, what with the appeal still being under way, he was asked in an interview over the weekend how the BBFC can defend the decision when violent ‘torture porn’ movies such as Hostel have been released with 18 certificates.
Cliff answered thusly:
Cliff was also asked directly if he thought parents understood the BBFC ratings on games, to which he gave the following very open and revealing answer:
“I think it depends on whether they've played games before. They understand ratings on video undeniably. Ninety-seven percent of British parents are familiar with and understand our ratings. When it comes to how they apply to games, I think that the biggest issue is with parents who've never played games and are either not interested in what their kids are playing, or don't feel they would be able to understand, and so they don't take an interest. And I think it's not necessarily that they're not interested in the ratings, it's that they don't know how they would apply to games. They don't know--whereas they might know what a 15 film is like, they've got no clue what a 15 game is like. And so it's much harder for them and if their kid says that's fine, then they think it's probably fine.”
Read SPOnG's recent interview with TV Psychologist Tanya Byron, for more musings on parental confusion with game age ratings systems in the UK.
Source: Gamespot
While Rockstar continues to appeal against the BBFC’s decision, many adult British gamers are confused, angry and a little upset about this decision, particularly in light of the fact that the edited version of the game (still not edited enough for the BBFC!) goes on sale in the US later this very week on Halloween.
While Cliff is currently not able to talk (publicly) about the Manhunt 2 decision, what with the appeal still being under way, he was asked in an interview over the weekend how the BBFC can defend the decision when violent ‘torture porn’ movies such as Hostel have been released with 18 certificates.
Cliff answered thusly:
“If the majority of Hostel was the same as some of the most violent scenes in it, it's entirely possible it could have been banned. But it's not. Most of the running time isn't violence, that's mainly crammed into a few short scenes. Also, in Hostel you are very much required to identify with the victims more than in most games.”
Cliff was also asked directly if he thought parents understood the BBFC ratings on games, to which he gave the following very open and revealing answer:
“I think it depends on whether they've played games before. They understand ratings on video undeniably. Ninety-seven percent of British parents are familiar with and understand our ratings. When it comes to how they apply to games, I think that the biggest issue is with parents who've never played games and are either not interested in what their kids are playing, or don't feel they would be able to understand, and so they don't take an interest. And I think it's not necessarily that they're not interested in the ratings, it's that they don't know how they would apply to games. They don't know--whereas they might know what a 15 film is like, they've got no clue what a 15 game is like. And so it's much harder for them and if their kid says that's fine, then they think it's probably fine.”
Read SPOnG's recent interview with TV Psychologist Tanya Byron, for more musings on parental confusion with game age ratings systems in the UK.
Source: Gamespot
Games:
Manhunt 2
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Comments
hollywooda 29 Oct 2007 12:08
1/9
I like to think that games can get BANNED!...its exciting, i'd love there to be a game for the 360 that was so violent or disturbing that it was banned & you had to import it & carry it home in a brown bag & play it when your girlfriend had gone to bed... its like going back to the old days of getting a copy of Chainsaw massacre or Evil dead from some dodgy video shop & sneaking it home...... obviously the game would have to be good & done with class, theres no shock or feeling in just blowing mindless bots apart, the Darkness touched on it when they shot his girlfriend in the head, i felt that!........
(come on has this animation finished rendering yet)
(come on has this animation finished rendering yet)
Bentley 29 Oct 2007 13:06
2/9
BBFC guy spouting bile again. People that go to see Hostel don't pop down to the cinema to "identify with the victims", they go to see how far they can push the horrific violence and gore. Whereas gamers, mostly we just want to game. This guy isn't doing his job properly- the interests of free-thinking adults are still being quashed. Why should he get to play the game? Is he immune from the horrors? I say we sneak up behind him and twist his nuts off with pliers.
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tyrion 29 Oct 2007 13:25
3/9
Bentley wrote:
Why should he get to play the game? Is he immune from the horrors?
I'd like to ask him how many hours of therapy he had to go through to prevent him from turning psycho and killing the people he works with.
Joji 29 Oct 2007 14:15
4/9
No surprise this guy is spouting more bile than a broken sewer network. Truth is they are making their excuses up as they go along, supposedly for our benefit. Strike one for the nanny state.
Notice he's said nothing about why they refused Manhunt 2 the second time, after it was edited, when the U.S didn't. Once was one thing, but twice, I'm still not buying their spiel.
This is why games need their own ratings done by ELSPA, by people who don't take the violence out of context of the work.
Notice he's said nothing about why they refused Manhunt 2 the second time, after it was edited, when the U.S didn't. Once was one thing, but twice, I'm still not buying their spiel.
This is why games need their own ratings done by ELSPA, by people who don't take the violence out of context of the work.
PreciousRoi 29 Oct 2007 21:24
5/9
Another important differences between Hostel and Manhunt 2...
Manhunt 2 uses realistic computer graphics of simulated violence that looks almost as real as current graphics allow...Hostel uses real people having realistic violence done on them that looks as real as anything, probably more real.
Myself, I don't watch horror movies anymore (after watching the original Texas Chansaw Massacre on LSD), last one I enjoyed was Bubba HoTep (not really a horror flick). I enjoyed the last Manhunt...it was okay. I find it VERY hard, impossible in fact, to believe that Manhunt 2 could equal the level of...realistic violence...of a Texas Chansaw Massacre (or a Hostel or Saw, haven't subjected myself to then so not as sure).
Someone let me know if I'm wrong, but I just don't see Manhunt topping hanging a chick on a wall with a hook through her back. The mewling noises will haunt me to my grave.
Manhunt 2 uses realistic computer graphics of simulated violence that looks almost as real as current graphics allow...Hostel uses real people having realistic violence done on them that looks as real as anything, probably more real.
Myself, I don't watch horror movies anymore (after watching the original Texas Chansaw Massacre on LSD), last one I enjoyed was Bubba HoTep (not really a horror flick). I enjoyed the last Manhunt...it was okay. I find it VERY hard, impossible in fact, to believe that Manhunt 2 could equal the level of...realistic violence...of a Texas Chansaw Massacre (or a Hostel or Saw, haven't subjected myself to then so not as sure).
Someone let me know if I'm wrong, but I just don't see Manhunt topping hanging a chick on a wall with a hook through her back. The mewling noises will haunt me to my grave.
actionmonkey 30 Oct 2007 12:09
6/9
TCM is actually famous for having almost no blood in it. There is a bit when some splashes up on leatherface's mask but that's about it. It can be pretty intense though (especially on LSD).
I won't agree with you about graphics though, these are ps2 level graphics and look quite cartoony to me.
If the BBFC were to compare it to some japanese animae I think they would find that animae is equally (if not more) intense in some cases. They are acting like this is real footage when it clearly not. They treat people like they are stupid and can't tell the difference. I seem to remember Aeon Flux going out at 7pm years ago on BBC2 and that was killing from start to finish, every episode.
It really pisses me off when they say they don't come down harder on video games. If that's the case then why the hell is Bioshock an 18? The people are cartoony and so is the blood, infact it doesn't even look like blood in that game, just some weird goo.
The 'killing of a child' argument doesn't hold water either in this case as:
a) They are supposed to be monsters
b) it happens off screen and
c) there are plenty of films where children die graphically which are PG rated. Jaws for example.
I won't agree with you about graphics though, these are ps2 level graphics and look quite cartoony to me.
If the BBFC were to compare it to some japanese animae I think they would find that animae is equally (if not more) intense in some cases. They are acting like this is real footage when it clearly not. They treat people like they are stupid and can't tell the difference. I seem to remember Aeon Flux going out at 7pm years ago on BBC2 and that was killing from start to finish, every episode.
It really pisses me off when they say they don't come down harder on video games. If that's the case then why the hell is Bioshock an 18? The people are cartoony and so is the blood, infact it doesn't even look like blood in that game, just some weird goo.
The 'killing of a child' argument doesn't hold water either in this case as:
a) They are supposed to be monsters
b) it happens off screen and
c) there are plenty of films where children die graphically which are PG rated. Jaws for example.
tyrion 30 Oct 2007 19:59
7/9
PreciousRoi wrote:
last one I enjoyed was Bubba HoTep
Anything with Bruce "The Chin" Campbell in it is worth a glance. A film where he plays Elvis in a retirement home is pure gold!
PreciousRoi 31 Oct 2007 05:05
8/9
Of course I love Bruce, but Ossie Davis as JFK was brilliant.
tyrion 1 Nov 2007 08:54
9/9
PreciousRoi wrote:
Of course I love Bruce, but Ossie Davis as JFK was brilliant.
Yep, that was inspired casting. Love the film, there were rumours of a sequel a while ago, dunno what happened to it.