Nintendo’s Lifestyle PR campaign falters in UK

But it doesn’t matter, it's in a magazine nobody reads

Posted by Staff
Arena Magazine - self-titled "Worlds Smartest Men’s magazine" - has written a rather scathing preview of the Wii, after being invited to Nintendo’s recent playtest event in Covent Garden.

SPOnG is somewhat baffled by this, as we were there. We played plenty of WarioWare: Smooth Moves and plenty of Wii Sports and we are fairly confident that we will be spending most of our Christmas break this year playing the same games. Plus, more importantly, we will be successfully encouraging previously videogame-shy family and friends to do the same. And we are fairly confident that gamers across the world will be doing the same - young and old, Ninty fanboys or not.

And whilst the other assembled ‘lifestyle’ hacks in attendance seemed to be pretty much in agreement that the Wii totally delivers on the hype, the man from the low-circulation style mag targeting a swiftly disappearing demographic of men in their thirties and forties who still need fashion and style advice from a magazine, decided to buck the trend.

Yes, somebody in a lifestyle magazine has decreed that the Wii is actually the rubbish Emperor’s New Clothes. In a poorly written piece entitled ‘Wii, Wii, poo, poo’ Arena claims:

The more I play the Wii, the more practical problems enter my head, seemingly lost on others in the rush to join the blanket of praise. More concerns than reservations, they are however sure to be part of the bigger picture after the initial “Oooh, look what I can do with my hands!” hype has died down…

1 The physical issue
After a hard day of work/surfing the internet, a relaxing blast on a shoot ’em up or a decent sports sim can be cathartic, not needing much more than a small thumb movement and a couple of button presses to see off hordes of screaming Nazis or score a backhand-return while you lie virtually comatose on the sofa. But with the Wii, vegging out is no longer an option – it’s all about motion, whether it’s thrusting the controller forward to bayonet in battle or leaping about a ‘virtual’ court on a third-set tie-break. Does that feel like ‘rest’ to you? After the office and the gym, doesn’t it all sound too much like hard work?

2 The ‘big TV’ issue
Nintendo has made a huge deal out of the fact that the Wii isn’t following the next-gen herd, concentrating on how we play games, rather than just swanking up the graphics. But while it may not need a high-definition telly like the PS3 and Xbox 360, it DOES need a big fuck-off one. As the PS2’s gimmicky EyeToy gadget proved, motion-sensing games don’t work on small TVs – you need the on-screen gaming area to be as large as possible to properly read your body’s graceful movements (come on, play along). So, despite the Big N pitching itself as the cheap and cheerful option (£170 is the latest unconfirmed price doing the rounds – almost a third of the price of the PS3), you may still find yourself having to fork out for that entertainment centre of plenty after all.

3 The space issue
We’ve already established that the Wii suddenly makes video-gaming a physical activity, which is fine if you have a sizeable front room. However, those whose living dens are a little on the small side, or those banking on setting it up in their specialist ‘games nook’, might want to think again, as even in a spacious demo space I was bumping into people and fairly solid walls left, right and centre trying to hit baseline winners on Wii Tennis. Quite what this means for Nintendo’s considerable child clientele, who predominantly have their consoles in their bedrooms, is anyone’s guess. Fancy watching the Premiership on the 14” in the kitchen while the little terrors take over your personal man space of an evening? No, didn’t think so.


Despite the fact that most of the above twaddle is either factually just wrong, or at the least pretty misinformed (you can play any Wii games whilst sat down should you choose and you don’t need a big telly, as it’s the wand which senses the Wiimote’s movement) let us know if you have any genuine concerns about the Wii which you feel are not being voiced, or are being sidelined by the almost universal praise amongst the games and (rest of) the lifestyle media.

Comments

Showing the 20 most recent comments. Read all 36.
DoctorDee 22 Jul 2006 10:57
17/36
Adam M wrote:
Yes, but your average non-gamer is not going to replace a perfectly functional TV just to play a Wii.


Why not, when they could buy the Wii, 2 games and a larger TV for less than a PS3?

For kids, and let's face it these are going to be a lot of the Wii's market, a 14" TV in their room is pretty reasonable.


I might be hideously middle class (and I'm not) but I don't know any kids with a 14" in their bedroomm, they all have 18/20/24 inch TVs.

But like I said in my post, I don't see any reason why Wii games would not be playable on so small as screen, as long as you were at an appropriate distance.

THey'll be better on a larger sceen, but that's true of PS2/N64/Xbox/Atari VCS games too. OK, not 2600 games, the bloxels become so big it's like playing a mosaic.
Hypnotoad 22 Jul 2006 12:17
18/36
Well it sounds to me like you're agreeing with several points made in Arena's article now...they do raise valid concerns, regardless of you're bias toward the Wii (& you can't deny your bias - most in the industry are as they're just hoping it's going to be a wondrous fresh breath of fresh air for the industry). Some of us, while still hoping for the same, are realists and don't just sweep valid facts under the rug, or in your case, publicly slam these opinions/observations.

Oh and I resent the fitness comment - I work out 3 days a week (6"1, 180pounds) and my arms were sore at the end of it. I agree that the youth obesity epidemic has become a frightening issue, but you're kidding yourself to think that a few Wii sessions will account for any kind of real exercise. Your arms getting sore isn't exactly a fierce workout (especially if you're just sitting on the couch).
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Svend Joscelyne 22 Jul 2006 12:45
19/36
Well it sounds to me like you're agreeing with several points made in Arena's article now...

...No? Not sure where you got that idea from. You might have missed the Doc's last comment:

I don't see any reason why Wii games would not be playable on so small as screen, as long as you were at an appropriate distance.

Which is quite far from agreeing with Arena's "fact" that you NEED a huge-ass TV to play the Wii properly. And as for Arena's "fact" that if you play it on a bigger TV you need to travel further, I'm pretty sure that's not the case, seeings as the sensor bar is 20cm in length and the calibration of different size TVs probably won't make a difference as to how far you travel.



Hypnotoad wrote:
You're kidding yourself to think that a few Wii sessions will account for any kind of real exercise. Your arms getting sore isn't exactly a fierce workout (especially if you're just sitting on the couch).

You seem to forget that Dance Dance Revolution has been hailed in recent years as a great fitness product. I would suggest that WarioWare Smooth Moves may account for a lot of 'exercise' outside swinging of the arms, and even then you're not looking at the bigger picture.

You're only looking at games that are coming out for Wii's launch. Which are never representative of what might come out for that console anyway. If people bought the PS2 based on what was solely there on launch day (or even what was available a year after it's launch) then it would have bombed. Simple as that. Who knows, Nintendo might cotton on and do some bizarre fitness game for the Wii somewhere down the line.

But wait, that won't work will it? It's far better for an outlet like Arena to just write off an unheard-of idea in gaming rather than suggest its potential. I mean, it's not as if people will honestly get up for five seconds to play a Wii. What an absurd concept.

Just as people won't bother to 'go back to school' with Brain Training. What an absurd concept.
Oh wait, Kawashima's ended up in the top 10 for 6 weeks now.

they do raise valid concerns, regardless of you're bias toward the Wii

It's not bias towards the Wii, it's bias towards getting your facts right.

I think, when a magazine decides to say that 'next-gen' gaming like the PS3 and 360 are the way to go without criticising it at all, yet gets simple facts about the Wii wrong and uses those as a basis to slam the whole console, you have a case of double standards.

Arena is right to raise concerns if they have any, but if they're based off of incorrect data and the other consoles are seen as godsends in comparison, you don't get a subjective view, period. You get a biased one.
DoctorDee 22 Jul 2006 13:41
20/36
Hypnotoad wrote:
Well it sounds to me like you're agreeing with several points made in Arena's article now...

That's because you are projecting your thoughts and feelings onto me. That's not particulalry nice of you.

I am still disagreeing with Arena comprehensively.

you can't deny your bias

Oh, I DO deny my "bias". Unlike many people, I have never been a Nintendo fan. I own a gamecube, but I use the PS2 more.

I have no bias towards or away from the Wii. But I have tried it and I liked it.

Oh and I resent the fitness comment

Resent it all you like. It wasn't directed at you. But, if you wish to make this personal...

I work out 3 days a week (6"1, 180pounds) and my arms were sore at the end of it.

Maybe you are spending too much time on anaerobic exercise. This might make you big and strong (clearly, at 180lbs, I'm not referring to you per se), but it does not necessarily make you fit.

I used to work for Bodybuilding Monthly magazine, and I've met many of the (then) top body-builders. And while I would never have competed with them in lifting anything, I could outrun them by considerable distance. I could have beaten pretty much all of them at Tennis and Squash too.

I agree that the youth obesity epidemic has become a frightening issue, but you're kidding yourself to think that a few Wii sessions will account for any kind of real exercise. Your arms getting sore isn't exactly a fierce workout (especially if you're just sitting on the couch).

On the one hand you argue (or agree with Arena when they argue) that the Wii will meet reistance because it requires the user to do exercise, and then you argue that the exercise won't be good for them. You can't have it both ways buddy!

Any exercise is better than none. Any exerciuse will make the user fitter, and better able to do it again.

If you personally find using the Wii controller too tiring, don't buy one. Or if you want one, try one of these to get you ready.
Hypnotoad 22 Jul 2006 16:31
21/36
Well if you want to talk about being 'nice' here, let's pull a quote from why we're actually here "...the man from the low-circulation style mag targeting a swiftly disappearing demographic of men in their thirties and forties who still need fashion and style advice from a magazine, decided to buck the trend." If that's not leading your viewership into negative state of mind on the mag, I'll agree with YOUR article. Before the quote is even posted you've painted a picture of low creditably...a magazine you purchase monthly I might ad, but I digress.

You're missing the point here. The Arena's article makes several valid points - whether you agree with them or not, they are, as you can see from this discussion, clearly up for debate.

The TV size issue has not been cleared up whatsoever with speculation occurring (on both sides of the fence I'll admit) but everyone is assuming this or that about it. How can you claim that Arena is dead wrong when nobody really knows? I believe Arena's theory to be correct, you believe different...

The space issue you yourself conceded on as being a possibility - perhaps not so much an issue for western gamers but when was the last time you visited a mate in Japan for a gaming session? I can tell you right now that's going to be an issue.

As for the fitness aspect, I jump between cardio and weights every 2 months so I'd be above the average in terms of fitness - having said that, we're not here to discuss my level of fitness but I can assure you that if I've had issues with it, more than most will too.

These aren't made up concerns - these are real issues that's I've personally experienced. Whether you want to believe they are or not is a different matter. You not willing to consider these arguments leads me to believe you're biased toward Wii - until I hear some hard 'facts' as apposed to speculation from your side of the fence, your report on the article stands as bogus. Not like it matters anymore mind you, but I've said my piece :)
DoctorDee 22 Jul 2006 17:04
22/36
You are such a revisionist, it's not even funny.

I'll agree with YOUR article. Before the quote is even posted you've painted a picture of low creditably...a magazine you purchase monthly I might ad, but I digress.

I purchase Arena monthly, but I didn't write the news article. The writer who did doesn't read Arena. I made it clear that I find Arena enjoyable, but not particularly credible. No men's mag is, they employ generalists to write about specialist subject matter.

You're missing the point here. The Arena's article makes several valid points

No YOU are missing the point here. We believe the points not to be valid.

The TV size issue has not been cleared up whatsoever with speculation occurring (on both sides of the fence I'll admit) but everyone is assuming this or that about it.

Except that I've played Wii on two screens of greatly differing sizes, and it worked fine on both. Why, then, would it not work well on a third size?

The thing is, there is absolutely nothing to logically suggest that Wii won't work well on a small screen, except for the supposition of Arena's writer. A small screen is just the same as a large screen further away - indeed, when I played Wii on a smaller screen, I stood closer to it. Surely if I played it on an even smaller screen, I'd just stand closer still.

I believe Arena's theory to be correct, you believe different...

You believe who you like mate. I'm believing my own experience.

The space issue you yourself conceded on as being a possibility

No I didn't. I accepted that people will not be able to jump around pretending to be Ivan Lendl if they have an incredibly tiny room. But I contested that most people live in TINY rooms. I pointed out that if kids have room for a Scalextric or a train set, as tey traditionaly have, they have room for Wii. I also pointed out that I played two-player Wii-Tennis on the very, very, very crowded stand at E3, since a swing of the wrist has the same effect as a swing of the arm - something you clearly didn't notice when you played Wii.

perhaps not so much an issue for western gamers but when was the last time you visited a mate in Japan for a gaming session?

Last month, but what does that have to do with it? Wii isn't out yet. We sat down (on a sofa, not a tatami mat) and played GT4, Hitman, Tomb Raider and Shadow of the Collosus.

This is a further example of your revisionism, it was actually a pro-Wii poster on this forum that brought up the issue of Japanese rooms. Stating that since Wii is Japanese in origin, this indicates that there will probably be enough room for it in a Japanese house. No one I know in Japan lives in a TINY room.

These aren't made up concerns

That's exactly what they are.

These are real issues that's I've personally experienced.

Then I say again. Don't buy a Wii.

You not willing to consider these arguments leads me to believe you're biased toward Wii

Believe what you like.

until I hear some hard 'facts' as apposed to speculation from your side of the fence

It would seem that FACTS are the last thing you want. You didn't need facts from Arena before you believed their article.

You just want us all to agree with your opinion. Well, I'm not going to. Sorry. I don't really give a damn if you agree with mine or not.

I've got 16 years in the games industry, and I've played Wii twice. I believe me. The writer of the news article we are discussing has years in the games industry too - he says this about the same afternoon playing Wii that the Arena writer attended. I believe him. You can believe whoever you like.

In the long run, we'll all know who's right after Christmas. Do what anyone of us can do, and vote with your wallet.
Ditto 22 Jul 2006 19:08
23/36
LOL, I have a working-class attitude ;).

DoctorDee wrote:
Adam M wrote:
Yes, but your average non-gamer is not going to replace a perfectly functional TV just to play a Wii.


Why not, when they could buy the Wii, 2 games and a larger TV for less than a PS3?


But accoridng to Ninty non-gamers wouldn't buy a PS3... They would buy a Wii and I can't see them replacing the TV.

However, I do accept that the traditional TVs are phasing out as the main TV in the house, and therefore a lot of people will have bigger models.

For kids, and let's face it these are going to be a lot of the Wii's market, a 14" TV in their room is pretty reasonable.


I might be hideously middle class (and I'm not) but I don't know any kids with a 14" in their bedroomm, they all have 18/20/24 inch TVs.


I don't know any kids with TVs that size. Most have 14" with TV-videos now, it seems.

But like I said in my post, I don't see any reason why Wii games would not be playable on so small as screen, as long as you were at an appropriate distance.


I trust your opinion as I haven't played a Wii :). I guess it might be a bit unbearable on a small screen, but I accept the point :). Basically is that to me it doesn't look that playable, but I don't *know* that.

They really need to do a roadshow of the UK with this console. I don't think I could buy one until having actually played it. Not very enthusiastic about the next gen home consoles, although I am now considering a cute DS Lite.
Svend Joscelyne 22 Jul 2006 19:11
24/36
Hypnotoad wrote:
The space issue you yourself conceded on as being a possibility - perhaps not so much an issue for western gamers but when was the last time you visited a mate in Japan for a gaming session? I can tell you right now that's going to be an issue.

You're thinking of bedrooms though. Nintendo's aim is to get the Wii into living rooms and have it sitting there just as you would the family DVD player or stereo. Japanese rooms and apartments are smaller generally, and some bedrooms can be tiny, as you say.

And if Nintendo weren't opting to market the Wii as a lifestyle product to be placed in the living room (not as a lurk-in-your-bedroom product - a concept usually attached with video gaming), you might have had a point.

(FYI, Japanese living rooms aren't that small. Not that I intend to patronise you or anything, but you made the generalisation that all Japanese rooms are smaller than my shed.)
Hypnotoad 23 Jul 2006 10:35
25/36
Right - yes I'm sorry sir. Your opinions are valid and mine & Arena's are not. I could argue with you till I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to understand that I am NOT against the Wii - I'm just not a blind optimist & believe the system to have some flaws. Perhaps by expressing these, instead of blindly preaching the word all mighty Wii, Nintendo could look at these issues & address them making the system all the better for it.

But, I forgot for a minute there that SPOnG is never wrong (cough) & I'm sorry I ever brought it up.
SorelissLarethian 23 Jul 2006 13:08
26/36
"Whilst playing Mario Tennis I actually slapped someone in the back not 10mins into my session and I had a heap of space available. I was swinging that thing like a baseball bat. There's no question in my mind that several games on Wii will be very cumbersome to play in some peoples playing spaces."

Heh, that is what i was talking about in a previous post by saying "jumping around like monkeys" for the arena guys :)

newsflash: you don't have to!!! o.O

Are you seriously blaming nintendo for you being clumsy there? Because that is what you really described here, not some hardware/design defect. You might not be like that all the time, you prolly just had a bad moment; but, clumsy people do exist, they have similar problems with almost everything. Xbox controller wires, not well protected remotes made out of hard plastic, traffic signs, valuable collectibles...

To make sure that no wiimote flies against a wall or worse, a head, according to latest reports nintendo added a wrist strap to it.

a response to the physical issue.. well, look up on the space issue response.

I'm sure Wii will have some flaws that's for sure and it goes for all things not only game consoles.

As for the comment on tv sizes..
I don't think anyone tried it in a smaller tv so it's all pure speculation. Plus the same goes for EVERY kind of screen even pc monitors and their different resolutions. It's only that TVs have specific *standard* resolution and amount of horizontal lines across ALL models (except hd which is a different story.)


Bottom line sure it's not going to be perfect but nothing is anyway. Can anyone imagine a company like nintendo trying to convince (and achieving to do so) the whole gaming world about this new thing they bring on the table based on a flimsy wiimote? would they put all their emphasis on a dysfunctional device? Are all reports on how great Wii really is a fabricated marketing story? How much did they pay each journalist or publishing/development CEO and game designer to say "It's great!!!"

I think not.
Joji 23 Jul 2006 17:45
27/36
Not much I can really add to what I said previously. Only Nintendo can answer the Arena writers doubts, and only a few months now to go to launch then we can really test the water.

Hey I have my doubts too, but I believe in giving people a chance to prove me wrong. Its up to Nintendo now, but after the runaway and yet suprising success against the fab PSP I truly believe Nintendo will do the same with Wii. Remember how many journos were backing the PSP over DS purely on its sexy design, they get a dose of humble pie everyday now.

Any Wii niggles will be ironed out later in its life as has always been the case with all consoles. Xbox scratching game dvds, PS2s burning out or whatever. Nintendo do listen to us and respond much better these days.

I wonder if same article writer will return to check any doubts once Wii is launched? That will truly show how good or bad he/she is or isn't at writing. Perhaps a Nintendo Q & A would be better.
OptimusP 23 Jul 2006 21:26
28/36
I don't get the TV-issue and why they are comparing it to a Eyetoy. The Wii-controller isn't the same principle as a lightgun which does depends on the screensize. Probably the only notion the console needs of your tv is if it's 4:3 or 16:9, all the rest is indeed bogus.

You have your infra-red grid from the sensor-bar that tells the Wii if you're moving up-down,left or right, forward or backwards with the bugger and you got your gyro's (acceloremejiggs is to hard to type) that tells the Wii at what angel you're holding and how fast your turning/sweeping the bugger. Where does the necessity of knowing the screensize come into play at all?

And indeed, wrist movements are enough to make your character do what you want it to do so the movement/space issue is crap too. Why are people waving their arms around then? Because the Wii is to bloody good at giving you the sense that the character on screen does what you do. It's just more fun to do real tennisstrokes when the character on-screen does the same thing, that's the true power of Wii, your actions directly translated in a game.
Rod Todd 23 Jul 2006 23:32
29/36
Hypnotoad wrote:
Right - yes I'm sorry sir. Your opinions are valid and mine & Arena's are not.

But, I forgot for a minute there that SPOnG is never wrong (cough) & I'm sorry I ever brought it up.


Awwwww. Pathetic child.

Upset because you can't force someone to agwee with you.



Hypnotoad 24 Jul 2006 05:44
30/36
Rod Todd wrote:

Awwwww. Pathetic child.

Upset because you can't force someone to agwee with you.


Thanks for contributing to the debate - very contructive & thought provoking. I especially liked the way you substituted the 'w' for the 'r' - almost like you were talking like a small child or perhaps even a baby? Brilliant!
DoctorDee 24 Jul 2006 07:19
31/36
Hypnotoad wrote:
Thanks for contributing to the debate - very contructive & thought provoking. I especially liked the way you substituted the 'w' for the 'r' - almost like you were talking like a small child or perhaps even a baby? Brilliant!


He has a point though. You did seem to start stamping your feet because we refused to agree with you.

In fact, despite us saying that we were not bothered whether you agreed with us or not, you still seemed to accuse us of petulance and arrogance.

But the discussion has become somewhat circular. And we are both now repeating ourselves.

Buy Wii, don't buy Wii. Like it, hate it. Believe Arena, believe SPOnG. We really don't mind what you do. And discussing it certainly makes good forum fodder. But please refrain from telling us what we think, nor what we should think.

If it makes you feel better to have the last word, and if you feel the need to make anymore groundless and insubstantiated criticisms of SPOnG please go ahead.
Hypnotoad 25 Jul 2006 01:03
32/36
Well, you feel he has a point because he is backing your argument. I'm not trying to win anything here - we have different opinions to yours and clearly you won't even entertain the notion that they may have some relevance. YOU were the one that started bagging someone else's opinion, not ME. If you had reported on the article in a more objective manor as apposed to the slander used, we wouldn't be here right now.

You're entitled to your beliefs, and other to theirs. I'm just not about to go and publicly post a story slamming SPOnG about how ridiculous I may think your opinions are - they are just as valid as mine. But you seem to be missing that point.

Oh and you guys need to settle down a bit - don't take this stuff so seriously.
PreciousRoi 25 Jul 2006 06:05
33/36
dude, easy....

lets look at the facts here.

Fact: some rag has an opinion.

Fact: this rag's opinion is only notable due to the fact that it is not congruent with the general consensus.

Fact: this is reported here, not without some added editorial content.

Slander is an utterly ludicrous word to use in this context. Just stop. Now. You lose, Ninty wins, g@me over. Of course yours is only the 3rd most ridiculous position in the thread. #2 being held by Dee for defending Tedd's subintelligent vitriol. (The post he was replying to being contextually perfectly reasonable and correct)

Any legitimate concens posited by the abovementioned rag are impeached and found disingenuous. Q.E.D. BillTedd is a douchebag.




config 25 Jul 2006 10:32
34/36
Ok, let's flatten this thread, and Arena's concerns;

1 The physical issue
and
3 The space issue


The writer seems completely unaware that you don't actually have to throw yourself around to play these games. Nintendo has made it clear on several occassions that you can play Mario Tennis with large lunging movements, or just simple flick-of-the-wrist movements.

Sure, you may get a tired wrist after prolonged play, but how is this any different from sore thumbs and cramped knuckles from lengthy playing on PS2 or Xbox?

Take away the huge movements, and you take away the requirement for large clear space for play.

2 The ‘big TV’ issue

Ill-founded supposition. Even the Eyetoy claim is flawed. The only reason the Eyetoy doesn't typically work with a small telly is because most folk sit the camera on the telly. However the player needs to be a good distance from the cam to be "in the frame", which means they're too far from the small TV to make out what's going on. The answer here it to place the camera beyond the TV, but that's not always possible or practical.

Going back to the space "issue", if you're going to throw yourself about like a spong, then you're probably going to need a reasonably sized TV because you'll be a good distance from the screen. However, if you play sat down, using wrist movements, I cannot see any valid reason why a 14" portable TV wouldn't suffice.
YenRug 25 Jul 2006 13:56
35/36
Suppose I can drop my tuppenceworth of opinion in on this.

There's no getting away from the fact I'm a fat git, there's also no getting away from the fact I've got some undiagnosable muscle disorder which means I tire easily (kind of chicken and egg situation; I don't like exercise, but I never really realised I had a medical problem until it kicked off badly in my early 20's, either way = me being overweight). Despite all this, I'm still looking forward to getting my hands on a Wii come launch day; I'll probably play until I can't move my arms anymore (which will probably be a lot sooner and painful than the Arena guy, or any of you on here). Why?

Because I'm bored with gaming after 30+ years, because there's been bugger all real innovation in the videogame market; you might get the occassional game which does things just right, but overall it's the same thing in one game after another. The Wii may, or may not, bring a breath of fresh air, but I'm willing to see where it takes me. Even if it means not being able to move properly for a couple of days afterwards.

Now, does that put the Arena guy's "lying on the bed" argument into perspective? It sounds like we're probably both big slobs, but he's not enough of a gamer to actually realise there's a need for something different, to go alongside all the "Me too!" sequals and copycats.
Rod Todd 25 Jul 2006 16:44
36/36
PreciousRoi wrote:
Any legitimate concens posited by the abovementioned rag are impeached and found disingenuous. Q.E.D. BillTedd is a douchebag.


Dude! Douchebag! And I thought we were getting along so well. Except for that time recently when I implied that you were a clueless nobody who has never been further than the end of your yard.

I apologise for that, it was uncharitable.

I think you agreed with what you just said. But I'm not entirely sure.

Could you explain it again in words of one syllable of fewer?
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